AdamJT13 v. The Horde

[VirusX]

You must have missed a few threads. He is a first ballot hall of famer and ring of honor inductee

And if we drafted Ramsey the same would be said of him... Deion said it at the draft...

 

[ccb04]

Now I'm going to blow all your minds. Emmitt didn't matter:

Interestingly, the Cowboys started 0-2 when Emmitt held out in 1993. Then there was in my mind, his defining game...which occurred in the same season. In a division-clinching game vs. the Giants, Smith separated his shoulder. Smith willed them to win. Emmitt had 168 yards rushing and also had 10 catches for 61 yards.

On the final game-winning drive, Smith gained 41 of the teams 52 yards to set up Eddie Murray's FG. Aikman was efficient, completing 24 of 30 passes, but he & Simms combined to throw for 387 yards & 1 TD. Aikman threw the 1 TD, and Emmitt caught it.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I'll use our own Cowboys as an example to how a great running game influences defenses and produces wins.

1). The Super Bowl in 1993 v. Buffalo - The Bills knew our primary weapon was Emmitt. As a result, they designed their entire defensive scheme to stop him. They held Emmitt relatively in check. I think he had a little over 100 yards or so. But, we kept running the ball, and more importantly, Buffalo's commitment to stopping the run opened up the entire field for our passing game and Troy had a field day. Go back and watch it. Even the commentators were talking about how obsessed the Bills were in trying to shut down the running game and it killed them.

2). The Super Bowl in 1994 v. Buffalo - Again, Buffalo loaded up the box to stop Emmitt. They shut down our whole offense in the first half, partly because Troy wasn't 100%. After tying the game early in the third quarter on a fumble return, the running game took over. Even though Buffalo was still stacking the box and our passing game wasn't greatly effective, we flat ran the ball down their throats. I think we completed one short pass on the entire drive. The game was essentially over at that point. Buffalo had been physically dominated and never put up much of a fight afterwards.

The point is the run game greatly matters. Nothing demoralizes a team more than when their defense is getting bulldozed and can't get off the field. It makes your QB more relaxed because he knows he doesn't have to do it all on his own. It opens up passing lanes because defenses have to commit more players to the line of scrimmage. It makes the passing more efficient and less likely to have to take risky chances. It just makes the entire team better. Anyone that doesn't see that, well, we will just disagree. Notice I never said a good rushing game is THE most important aspect to winning. It's just one if them. Let's face it, very good teams are generally good across the board.

 

[the_h0wey]

And if we drafted Ramsey the same would be said of him... Deion said it at the draft...

Maybe

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'll use our own Cowboys as an example to how a great running game influences defenses and produces wins.

1). The Super Bowl in 1993 v. Buffalo - The Bills knew our primary weapon was Emmitt. As a result, they designed their entire defensive scheme to stop him. They held Emmitt relatively in check. I think he had a little over 100 yards or so. But, we kept running the ball, and more importantly, Buffalo's commitment to stopping the run opened up the entire field for our passing game and Troy had a field day. Go back and watch it. Even the commentators were talking about how obsessed the Bills were in trying to shut down the running game and it killed them.

2). The Super Bowl in 1994 v. Buffalo - Again, Buffalo loaded up the box to stop Emmitt. They shut down our whole offense in the first half, partly because Troy wasn't 100%. After tying the game early in the third quarter on a fumble return, the running game took over. Even though Buffalo was still stacking the box and our passing game wasn't greatly effective, we flat ran the ball down their throats. I think we completed one short pass on the entire drive. The game was essentially over at that point. Buffalo had been physically dominated and never put up much of a fight afterwards.

The point is the run game greatly matters. Nothing demoralizes a team more than when their defense is getting bulldozed and can't get off the field. It makes your QB more relaxed because he knows he doesn't have to do it all on his own. It opens up passing lanes because defenses have to commit more players to the line of scrimmage. It makes the passing more efficient and less likely to have to take risky chances. It just makes the entire team better. Anyone that doesn't see that, well, we will just disagree. Notice I never said a good rushing game is THE most important aspect to winning. It's just one if them. Let's face it, very good teams are generally good across the board.

Again, Adam isn't saying running the ball has no effect. He says that running it well is irrelevant. It would help if you guys would address his actual arguments.

 

[Romotil45]

How long did Emmitt last? Ladanian Tomlinson? Jerome Bettis? Adrian Peterson? Marshawn Lynch?

A lot longer than 4 years.

Those guys are the exception not the rule. If Zeke gets 350 carries a year like many suppose in five years he will have hit the 1800 carry cliff and no one will give him a big contract.

 

[Vero_F250]

I like Zeke and think he will be amazing. In fact, I have lobbied for quite a while that we needed a great back to team with this line. But using the 4th pick to do that is bad value. Now I would love to get over it, but every other thread is about how Zeke was a great pick and he is going to save the Cowboys.

I was on the Ramsey train but to be honest the other threads are about how the pick was dumb and how Dallas should have gone a different direction. It's what happens during the slow parts of the season.

 

[RS12]

Pom poms apear in May. Disapear in December.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Again, Adam isn't saying running the ball has no effect. He says that running it well is irrelevant. It would help if you guys would address his actual arguments.

And I 100% disagree with it. Sticking with the run regardless is important, but if you keep running and running and average 2-3 ypc, you aren't going to accomplish much in the long run. You have to prove to a defense that your run game can and will hurt them or they'll ignore it and load up on their pass D.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And I 100% disagree with it. Sticking with the run regardless is important, but if you keep running and running and average 2-3 ypc, you aren't going to accomplish much in the long run. You have to prove to a defense that your run game can and will hurt them or they'll ignore it and load up on their pass D.

You can disagree with it all you like but at the end of the day he's shown how running the ball well doesn't matter in the outcome of games. The correlation is what it is. There is no actual evidence of the causation you claim.

Fact is you can run inefficiently and pass well you will win 80% of the time while the reverse has you lose 80% of the time. It is what it is.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Interestingly, the Cowboys started 0-2 when Emmitt held out in 1993.

The challenge in trying to use the 0-2/Derrick Lassic argument is the Cowboys played the prior one team that had participated in the past 3 Superbowls and the team that won the Superbowl, two seasons prior... Oh and was the Cowboys most hated rival.

You think the Bills and Commanders were motivated?

On top of that can anyone say Derrick Lassic was a quality back-up?

 

[theebs]

Those guys are the exception not the rule. If Zeke gets 350 carries a year like many suppose in five years he will have hit the 1800 carry cliff and no one will give him a big contract.

There is zero evidence of Scott Linehan overworking or giving a rookie rb 20 plus touches a game. He has coached a number of rookie RB's, he had the number 2 pick in the draft in Miami with Ronnie Brown and he only averaged 17 touches a game.

I think this team likes its 3 backs and will use them all. I do not think Zeke is going to be a workhorse a la murray in 14...they didn't even want murray doing that but repeatedly refused to come off the field. A rookie no matter how good will not have that option.

Zeke will get I bet similar to what brown got and they will have a plan for him. I cant wait to see him in the goal line and short package stuff.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Again, Adam isn't saying running the ball has no effect. He says that running it well is irrelevant. It would help if you guys would address his actual arguments.

And that's exactly what Bill Parcells says...

Bill Parcells & AdamJT13... pretty formidable tag-team IMO.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

There is zero evidence of Scott Linehan overworking or giving a rookie rb 20 plus touches a game. He has coached a number of rookie RB's, he had the number 2 pick in the draft in Miami with Ronnie Brown and he only averaged 17 touches a game.

I think this team likes its 3 backs and will use them all. I do not think Zeke is going to be a workhorse a la murray in 14...they didn't even want murray doing that but repeatedly refused to come off the field. A rookie no matter how good will not have that option.

Zeke will get I bet similar to what brown got and they will have a plan for him. I cant wait to see him in the goal line and short package stuff.

Agreed.

Elliott will not be getting 350 carries this season... and maybe not any season.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is zero evidence of Scott Linehan overworking or giving a rookie rb 20 plus touches a game. He has coached a number of rookie RB's, he had the number 2 pick in the draft in Miami with Ronnie Brown and he only averaged 17 touches a game.

I think this team likes its 3 backs and will use them all. I do not think Zeke is going to be a workhorse a la murray in 14...they didn't even want murray doing that but repeatedly refused to come off the field. A rookie no matter how good will not have that option.

Zeke will get I bet similar to what brown got and they will have a plan for him. I cant wait to see him in the goal line and short package stuff.

He ran Steven Jackson ragged in his second year though.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The challenge in trying to use the 0-2/Derrick Lassic argument is the Cowboys played the prior one team that had participated in the past 3 Superbowls and the team that won the Superbowl, two seasons prior... Oh and was the Cowboys most hated rival.

You think the Bills and Commanders were motivated?

On top of that can anyone say Derrick Lassic was a quality back-up?

Washington also went on to win 4 games that year, so while they were in the SB two seasons prior, that was not the same team, not even close

 

[theebs]

And that's exactly what Bill Parcells says...

Bill Parcells & AdamJT13... pretty formidable tag-team IMO.

Its about setting up 3rd down. Running well on early downs creates options in the passing game on 3rd down. Passing well on 3rd down keeps the drive going. Ultimately we score points passing the ball, that is the name of the game.

but being in 3rd and long and then making riskier throws or punting more is a problem and having a great running game to setup those third and shorts is a big time solution to it, especially when a great running game can travel and produce anywhere anytime.

 

[theebs]

He ran Steven Jackson ragged in his second year though.

Second year.

What I keep seeing repeated everywhere is that zeke will get 350 plus touches. I do not see that happening at all.

I also do not see McFadden cut in any way either so I could be completely wrong on both accounts.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Its about setting up 3rd down. Running well on early downs creates options in the passing game on 3rd down. Passing well on 3rd down keeps the drive going. Ultimately we score points passing the ball, that is the name of the game.

but being in 3rd and long and then making riskier throws or punting more is a problem and having a great running game to setup those third and shorts is a big time solution to it, especially when a great running game can travel and produce anywhere anytime.

Short passing game does the same thing and is more efficient. I really wish we would run our offense like Manning, Payton, and Reid do with their backs and the extended handoff. Zeke has the requisite skills.