Advantages of a 4 WR set

[waldoputty]

In 2016 the Giants rushed 6 when we went empty backfield. Dak had absolutely no time to throw the ball. The WRs didn't even matter. In 2014 teams used 0 deep on us. Romo would even indicate this to his WRs, it didn't seem to bother him too much. Not too sure about Dak.

But don't get me wrong, I don't think you're idea is bad. What our coaching staff would do is run from under center and pass out of shotgun in the 4 wide, giving up what we're doing. Same with other formations and whether or not we're in shotgun. The defense knows what we're doing.

What I'm trying to say is, the Cowboys have to give the defense a reason to put 6 in the box, not expect it. And play action is not always a good idea with little protection.

i am not advocating empty backfield due to the reduced rushing threat.
so the most they can rush is 7.
still hard to believe they would rush 7 with zeke in the back, and he could be off to the races with a single tackle broken.
in 2014, romo was fragile so it made sense to hit him even at the risk of a big play.
in 2016, dak was a rookie so it made sense to blitz him.
i hope after the comments in the press, even our coaches would not telegraph rush vs pass in a shot-gun vs. under the center.
i prefer no-huddle shotgun along with 4 wideouts.

i rather expect 1 safety deep so they could rush 6 - giving them a 1 man advantage vs. 5 on the ol.
so zeke would have 1 to beat, or the play would have to finesse 1 defender.
an example of a finesse would be for the lt to ignore to rde and hit the dt, and everyone block 1 player over.
either the rams or the chiefs ran this play last year, so it is not a madden creation.
the defenders also have to make sure dak does not fake and run with the ball, giving zeke an extra split second.

we can also line zeke as a wide out and use austin or the fb in the backfield and he is a good runner and receiver.
with zeke lined up as a wide-out - he would attract the entire defense's attention.
he could be used to run the jet sweep.
when zeke goes in motion, everyone will jump.
but if you have austin in the backfield, you would have 2 game breakers going in opposite directions that dak can choose from.
give it to zeke or let austin go in the opposite direction.
either one can take it all the way on any play or the defense cannot exclusively focus on one.

getting austin could be that threat that can draw enough attention from zeke.
particularly when one runs a jet sweep and the other can easily attack in the opposite direction depending on who dak gives the ball to.
our jet sweep threat last year was too slow.
this year we have 2 4.3 speed wrs with returner ability and zeke for those roles.

 

[waldoputty]

go get em Putty

no butter or olive oil for any of them

 

[waldoputty]

this is not madden 17

most of the plays have been done in the nfl particularly with teams that use rpo like the chiefs and the rams.
rpo was a hit in 2017.
since we cannot innovate much, we can copy.
but at least copy from 2017, not 1995.
rather blend 2017 and 1995 together given the assets in the ol, zeke, qb with running ability, and the 2 4.3 returner-ability wrs in austin and thompson

 

[TheCoolFan]

Power football is overrated...it's all about spread offense and speed these days!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

most of the plays have been done in the nfl particularly with teams that use rpo like the chiefs and the rams.
rpo was a hit in 2017.
since we cannot innovate much, we can copy.
but at least copy from 2017, not 1995.
rather blend 2017 and 1995 together given the assets in the ol, zeke, qb with running ability, and the 2 4.3 returner-ability wrs in austin and thompson

I am not opposed to using Zeke as a receiver, in fact I think he is under utilized...but a 4 WR set? maybe 4-5 plays a game, but not as a base for our offense. we are build to be a power offense, run the ball, control the clock. and I also disagree with the statistics, which were very madden like.....

 

[waldoputty]

I am not opposed to using Zeke as a receiver, in fact I think he is under utilized...but a 4 WR set? maybe 4-5 plays a game, but not as a base for our offense. we are build to be a power offense, run the ball, control the clock. and I also disagree with the statistics, which were very madden like.....

there were no statistics.
the only thing calculated is how one estimates how zeke would perform, and each of us would have a different estimate.
these are not madden plays but rpo plays used by innovating teams - chiefs, rams and vikings - last year.
we also ran jet sweeps but not well because the guy last year was slower than whitehead.
everything discussed supports a power running game to control the clock.
the only difference is 4 wrs are lined up wide to force the defense to dime and take 5 defenders away from the box.

 

[cern]

4 wr is a good way to move the ball quickly between the 20's, but once in the red zone balance is the preferred method. smashmouth football is still pretty much indefensible.

 

[waldoputty]

4 wr is a good way to move the ball quickly between the 20's, but once in the red zone balance is the preferred method. smashmouth football is still pretty much indefensible.

yea, 4wr loses it advantages in the red zone.
i still think 4wr is a good way to run the ball.

 

[cowboyec]

JUST.
RUN.
ZEKE.
AT.
THE.
DAMN.
GOAL.
LINE.

 

[cern]

yea, 4wr loses it advantages in the red zone.
i still think 4wr is a good way to run the ball.

It definitely can be. Especially with a mobile qb. It will be interesting to see if cowboys employ the formation.

 

[OmerV]

yea, 4wr loses it advantages in the red zone.
i still think 4wr is a good way to run the ball.

It can sometimes be a good way to run the ball, but generally the reason it works is because the with the teams that use it a lot the run is secondary to the pass, so defenses focus more on stopping the pass. If a team were to try to be a heavy run based offense using 4 WRs that dynamic would be different.

 

[waldoputty]

JUST.
RUN.
ZEKE.
AT.
THE.
DAMN.
GOAL.
LINE.

never said not to.
4wr loses its advantage in the red zone

 

[cowboyec]

never said not to.
4wr loses its advantage in the red zone

wasnt directed at you or thread.
just a statement in general.

 

[waldoputty]

It can sometimes be a good way to run the ball, but generally the reason it works is because the with the teams that use it a lot the run is secondary to the pass, so defenses focus more on stopping the pass. If a team were to try to be a heavy run based offense using 4 WRs that dynamic would be different.

4 wr removes at least 4 defenders from the box.
if 7 in a box, then they risk huge plays from zeke, a jet sweep/fake, or dak rolling out.
if 6 in a box, then zeke has to beat 1 defender or the scheme has to finesse 1 defender like how some rpo teams did last year like the rams or chiefs.
if they play 2 deep, they are giving into the rush.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

there were no statistics.
the only thing calculated is how one estimates how zeke would perform, and each of us would have a different estimate.
these are not madden plays but rpo plays used by innovating teams - chiefs, rams and vikings - last year.
we also ran jet sweeps but not well because the guy last year was slower than whitehead.
everything discussed supports a power running game to control the clock.
the only difference is 4 wrs are lined up wide to force the defense to dime and take 5 defenders away from the box.

sorry..fantasy football

 

[waldoputty]

sorry..fantasy football

lol u r entitled to ur opinion

 

[Tractor1]

here is a simple question.

if zeke is in space against a db who is 5 yards away, what chance do you give zeke for winning the matchup?
50-50 is a reasonable assumption for what could be a big play?
and even if the db tackles zeke, what chance do you give zeke for dragging the db for at least 2 yards?
50-50 is a conservative assmption for a decent play?
and even if stopped for a short gain, what chance do you give for the db to be dinged after impact?
10% is a reasonable assumption for taking out a 'starter' in the dime?

if you add up those odds, that is pretty damn good.
zeke would gain at least good yardage and/or ding/take out one of the opponent's dbs the great majority of the time.
that is 50%+25%+25% * 10% (for good yardage + injury) + 25% * 10% (for poor yardage + injury)
we get a positive play 80% of the time - based on these reasonable/conservative assumptions.

if this is correct, should we not make 4 wr formation the base formation?
that forces the defense to go at least nickel if not dime.
dime would generally mean 1 lb at the max.
when zeke runs wide, the db's would be primarily be tasked to stop the run
and they have to stop zeke in space going full-speed.

to keep the defense honest, have austin and thompson with the deep speed as 2 of the 4 wr
hurns and gallup could then be the other 2 wrs.
thompson, hurns and gallup are both at least the same size as dbs so they should block reasonably well.

austin and thompson are both return speed guys so they could both run the jet sweep
in fact, we could have austin and thompson take turns running jet sweep action on most plays to give zeke even more opportunities.

yes, i think we should make the 4wr spread offense the base offense.
when zeke runs up the middle, there would likely be at most 6 in the box.
of course, dak would play-action the hell out of this if zeke becomes a big problem.

I think a spread formation actually lends itself to running the ball. Multiple receiver sets reduce numbers in the box; making the exceptional offensive line one of the teams biggest weapons.

 

[OmerV]

4 wr removes at least 4 defenders from the box.
if 7 in a box, then they risk huge plays from zeke, a jet sweep/fake, or dak rolling out.
if 6 in a box, then zeke has to beat 1 defender or the scheme has to finesse 1 defender like how some rpo teams did last year like the rams or chiefs.
if they play 2 deep, they are giving into the rush.

Again, you aren't a brilliant football mind that has come up with an idea nobody in the NFL could fathom. Defenses would adjust if this kind of set were used in a run heavy offense. You are talking only about what you have seen in pass heavy offenses that use these kinds of sets, or run heavy offenses that use them only as an occasional change of pace. Jet sweeps are wrinkles in NFL offenses, not significant facets of them.

 

[waldoputty]

Again, you aren't a brilliant football mind that has come up with an idea nobody in the NFL could fathom. Defenses would adjust if this kind of set were used in a run heavy offense. You are talking only about what you have seen in pass heavy offenses that use these kinds of sets, or run heavy offenses that use them only as an occasional change of pace. Jet sweeps are wrinkles in NFL offenses, not significant facets of them.

who said anyone is brilliant?
none of this stuff is new.
it has been done in colleges and by a few innovative nfl teams like the chiefs, rams and vikings.

no one is brilliant.
it is just garrett that is stupid, inflexible and stuck in 1995.

out of all the teams in the nfl, we now have the best personnel to run this.
no one has a better ol.
no one has a better rb and a rb/wr, both of which can take it all the way at any time.
the 2 home run threats force teams to keep their defenses spread apart.
we even have a qb that can run.

jet sweep is a wrinkle that works well with rpo
we now have 2 4.3-speed wrs to do that well.
motion is good, and hoodie uses a lot of it.
again with 2 home run threats, defenses cannot just focus on zeke as austin can take it all the way going in the other direction.
6-or-7-in-a-box against our ol will not be that effective when they have to watch both zeke and austin.
either one can be lined up wide while the other one could be in the backfield.

 

[OmerV]

who said anyone is brilliant?
none of this stuff is new.
it has been done in colleges and by a few innovative nfl teams like the chiefs, rams and vikings.

no one is brilliant.
it is just garrett that is stupid, inflexible and stuck in 1995.

out of all the teams in the nfl, we now have the best personnel to run this.
no one has a better ol.
no one has a better rb and a rb/wr, both of which can take it all the way at any time.
the 2 home run threats force teams to keep their defenses spread apart.
we even have a qb that can run.

jet sweep is a wrinkle that works well with rpo
we now have 2 4.3-speed wrs to do that well.
motion is good, and hoodie uses a lot of it.
again with 2 home run threats, defenses cannot just focus on zeke as austin can take it all the way going in the other direction.
6-or-7-in-a-box against our ol will not be that effective when they have to watch both zeke and austin.
either one can be lined up wide while the other one could be in the backfield.

Colleges and the NFL are different animals. As for the Rams and Vikings, they did not run a heavy rushing offense using 4 WRs as the primary offensive set, nor did they actually have any great team success.

I'm sorry, but I think you have a Madden mindset, not a real NFL world mindset.