Colleges and the NFL are different animals. As for the Rams and Vikings, they did not run a heavy rushing offense using 4 WRs as the primary offensive set, nor did they actually have any great team success.
I'm sorry, but I think you have a Madden mindset, not a real NFL world mindset.
I’m saying that would effectively take our strength away. Who said we would have a mismatch on the receivers. We have a very pedestrian receiving groupso you are assuming we cannot pass against a nickel given the big mismatches on the receivers.
I’m saying that would effectively take our strength away. Who said we would have a mismatch on the receivers. We have a very pedestrian receiving group
The Cowboys definitely need to run out of a spread offense w 4 wrs way more often but they will ugly up the passing formation with a bunch of slow non scoring tes and designated blockers instead w the focus on the te to be a great blocker with no receiving skills and a bunch of fb mularkey that nobody uses anymore for decades. They don't use the passing game to open up the run game. Just the opposite every single time. No high tempo 2 minute passing game that features spreading the ball around. You can't argue that it's just as effective to run out of a spread offense in this forum even though all of the high powered offenses do it come playoff time. We haven't had a decent Te core that could score beans in 15 years but let's just leave them out there on every play anyways. No 2 rb formations. No rb screens, pick plays, wr screens, reverses or trick plays. Let's just run straight at them every time and not spread the ball around and try to win it with one guy instead of multiple players. When has a run game ever won us Jack in the playoffs for us in 20 years. Same old hyped up philosophy that's plague this losing franchise forever. The rules have changed to favor wrs but the Cowboys are still stuck trying to be like the old 90's regime whose defense couldn't stop today's modern Nfl offenses like they did back then. The slot wrs has no future on this team. Because they are only gonna be spot played on 3rd down w our run run pass mentality.here is a simple question.
if zeke is in space against a db who is 5 yards away, what chance do you give zeke for winning the matchup?
50-50 is a reasonable assumption for what could be a big play?
and even if the db tackles zeke, what chance do you give zeke for dragging the db for at least 2 yards?
50-50 is a conservative assmption for a decent play?
and even if stopped for a short gain, what chance do you give for the db to be dinged after impact?
10% is a reasonable assumption for taking out a 'starter' in the dime?
if you add up those odds, that is pretty damn good.
zeke would gain at least good yardage and/or ding/take out one of the opponent's dbs the great majority of the time.
that is 50%+25%+25% * 10% (for good yardage + injury) + 25% * 10% (for poor yardage + injury)
we get a positive play 80% of the time - based on these reasonable/conservative assumptions.
if this is correct, should we not make 4 wr formation the base formation?
that forces the defense to go at least nickel if not dime.
dime would generally mean 1 lb at the max.
when zeke runs wide, the db's would be primarily be tasked to stop the run
and they have to stop zeke in space going full-speed.
to keep the defense honest, have austin and thompson with the deep speed as 2 of the 4 wr
hurns and gallup could then be the other 2 wrs.
thompson, hurns and gallup are both at least the same size as dbs so they should block reasonably well.
austin and thompson are both return speed guys so they could both run the jet sweep
in fact, we could have austin and thompson take turns running jet sweep action on most plays to give zeke even more opportunities.
yes, i think we should make the 4wr spread offense the base offense.
when zeke runs up the middle, there would likely be at most 6 in the box.
of course, dak would play-action the hell out of this if zeke becomes a big problem.
The Cowboys definitely need to run out of a spread offense w 4 wrs way more often but they will ugly up the passing formation with a bunch of slow non scoring tes and designated blockers instead w the focus on the te to be a great blocker with no receiving skills and a bunch of fb mularkey that nobody uses anymore for decades. They don't use the passing game to open up the run game. Just the opposite every single time. No high tempo 2 minute passing game that features spreading the ball around. You can't argue that it's just as effective to run out of a spread offense in this forum even though all of the high powered offenses do it come playoff time. We haven't had a decent Te core that could score beans in 15 years but let's just leave them out there on every play anyways. No 2 rb formations. No rb screens, pick plays, wr screens, reverses or trick plays. Let's just run straight at them every time and not spread the ball around and try to win it with one guy instead of multiple players. When has a run game ever won us Jack in the playoffs for us in 20 years. Same old hyped up philosophy that's plague the franchise forever.
From the "you tube" blurts I've been seeing from O.T.A's that #17
( Hurns& maybe #10 Thompson)
Were being worked out in the ol' #82 routes,,, so,if a 4 receiver set is what you're envisioning? It'll probably not be what's anticipated in yer' line of thinking,,, ya-know?
* we'll see soon enough, yet a leopard can't change its spots
Which would be doing other teams a favor. If I were game planning against Dallas I would love to make it a passing game and take Zeke out of the equationoops, i mis-spoke.
i meant we have single-coverage on all 4 receivers, which would be risky
not mismatch.
basically u r not familiar with it, so u call it fantasy.
here are some material for college and nfl use.
here is a really simple 10 formation rpo by utah: http://insidethepylon.com/pylon-u/t...ah-utes-are-succeeding-with-run-pass-options/
"the Utes show a gun left, trips left formation out of 10 personnel. The RPO here is a bubble screen to wide receiver Cory Butler-Byrd (#16) with an interior pin-pull run to running back Troy McCormick Jr. (#4). The RPO read for quarterback Troy Williams (#3) is made pre-snap, if the defense shows man coverage against the receivers, he hands it off to McCormick. If they show zone coverage, with the defender closest to covering Butler-Byrd shaded closer to the offensive line, then the QB should throw the bubble screen after a play fake to McCormick."
of course, they have other plays with 10 personnel.
for us, the rb could be zeke or austin. the player running the bubble screen could be zeke or austin.
the wr pairings could also execute rub routes or a wr (zeke or austin or thompson) can run a jet sweep.
there are many options that the defense must defend with little time to think.
college and nfl are different animals.
that is why more talent is needed in the nfl.
we are the best equipped team to do this as no one has a better rb, 4.3-speed webback, dominant zbs ol to do this.
here are the eagles rpo out of 10 formation : http://www.wcmf.com/articles/rpo-explained
"So what you see here is a brilliant set up from Alshon Jeffery. He almost takes himself out of the play, which is precisely what he wants Talib to think. The Eagles don’t block Miller and he becomes the “run” read. In this picture, Miller plays this play perfectly. He squats and because he’s so athletic, he can play both the running back and quarterback at the same time. But in an RPO concept – that’s ok.
Wentz pulls which is fine. He could have given it to the back because he had blockers, but Wentz understands numbers. He knows he only has to avoid Miller for a second or two because you can now see Jeffery begin to take off downfield. The problem is, Talib’s eyes are stuck in the backfield thinking he’s about to become a run defender if Miller can’t take care of Wentz alone. This is the giant window Wentz had to hit his very large receiver because Talib was caught flat-footed and had zero chance of recovering. The deep safety is thinking read option, so there’s no way he gets back in time to get over the top of Jeffery. What you see here is a play that just can’t be defended. "
rams similarities:
1. lots of motion like the jet sweep to force defense to show its hand
2. lots of rub routes - need multiple receivers to do that - and 4 wr allows rub routes to be run on both sides
3. almost as much rushing as passing
4. rpo
5. lots of playaction
The Patriots have won a whole bunch of Super Bowls by being a run-first team that spreads the field.The problem is like CPanther said... if you are going to be a run first team, you aren't doing 4WR sets very often...
Sure Zeke, can beat a DB a lot of times after the catch, or put a beat down on him, or drag them... Probably won't be doing it from a 4 WR set though.
The math is wrong, and the argument is, well, not great.
Your math is only right if you are saying that the tackling DB gets knocked out of the game 20% of the time,not 10%. Both numbers are nuts, but one is way more nuts than the other. If you really mean 10%, the result is 77.5%, not 80%. Not that this matters.
Furthermore, you said yourself that Zeke would have "essentially one DB to beat most of the time," but you don't account for plays where he doesn't get wide because the end or LB gets there. And runs wide like this are stopped for a loss more often than other kinds of runs, when the end or LB breaks through and stuffs the RB or turns him back or when the defense strings you along down the line and doesn't let you turn the corner, so you have to account for that.
And of course, the defense will be prepared for it if they do it a lot, so the LB and other DBs have a good chance of getting in on the play.
And you're not going to knock guys out in one-on-one tackling situations anywhere near 10% of the time: that's just ridiculous.
And a 2-yard gain is not a successful running play.
I know the OP caught a lot of grief over his post, but I think with Zeke and this OL we are going to have an advantage in that area no matter what personnel group is on the field.
I think the OP is saying a DB on Zeke is a greater mismatch in our favor on running downs than a LB on Zeke is. That's pretty hard to deny really. Zeke would have a distinct advantage.
Is going 4 wides the way to get that done, or create other intended/unintended consequences? I haven't figured that part out yet. Lol.
IF it is dime, but it won't always be dime. There will be 2 LBs a lot of the time.
By the way, how many teams use 4 WR as there base offense? Do you think you have thought of something other teams haven't?