All22 review Jonathan Cooper

[YosemiteSam]

That's interesting. Do you have pressures per game numbers for everybody else on the line and a league average by position? O-line is a hard position to quantify

You can get them from stat websites. Getting that from sites like PPF can cost a pretty penny (Like $250/month) So it's best to just search the web for specific players and hope you find someone who does have that access that also has publishing rights of those stats.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Sounds like you lack both.

So says the guy that calls himself gmoney. A term notoriously used by people of low intelligence, wisdom and character.

I'm pretty sure I have no threat in either being lower than yours.

 

[gmoney112]

So says the guy that calls himself gmoney. I'm pretty sure I have no threat in either being lower than yours.

Haha, yeah. I care what a guy on an internet forum, who constantly lashes out at other members because he's insecure (the little Sam I Am perhaps?) with braggadocious claims of "status", really thinks of forum name.

I really do.

I'm still better looking anyway.

 

[AbeBeta]

Good point, but the comp pick is based on the contract received by the player. It has to be a decent contract to amount to anything.

Greg Hardy was the only one that had a chance to get a decent contract.

I think Cassel was the only one that might have a chance to get anything back and that seems like a low probability. He signed a 1 year, 2M contract.

Other issues with your approach.

The best PS guys are going to be on the team's with the deepest rosters. Many will be playoff teams. These guys will continue to get paid during that time. Since they know the team's system and there will not likely be much change in coaching staff, they've likely got a much more stable situation with their current team.

Another issue is that it is irresponsible to cut guys you might need to get through the final game. You cut Mack and you've got no backup center. The team has to be able to perform competently if there is an injury. Lots of guys are playing for jobs. You can have a player who doesn't know the O out there (assuming you signed someone's PS center) or someone playing out of position (if you didn't get a center).

Ultimately much of what you call for is tanking. The league really looks down on that as it screws competitive balance

 

[conner01]

It seems like bad teams would take more advantage of raiding practice squads near the end of the season.

This was the Cowboys roster at the end of 2015 when they were 4-12. I would have dumped some of those players and raided other team's practice squads prior to the final game.

A good scouting dept. should be able to find a few good prospects in a pool of 320 players that almost made an NFL roster.

Quarterbacks
16 Matt Cassel
17 Kellen Moore
7 Jameill Showers
Running Backs
44 Tyler Clutts FB
20 Darren McFadden
45 Rod Smith
23 Robert Turbin
Wide Receivers
11 Cole Beasley PR
19 Brice Butler
85 Vince Mayle
14 Rodney Smith
15 Devin Street
13 Lucky Whitehead KR
83 Terrance Williams
Tight Ends
84 James Hanna
87 Geoff Swaim
82 Jason Witten
Offensive Linemen
73 Mackenzy Bernadeau C/G - If they knew he was not returning then they could manage 1 game without him.
78 Charles Brown T
71 La'el Collins G/T
72 Travis Frederick C
68 Doug Free T
79 Chaz Green T/G
65 Ronald Leary G
70 Zack Martin G
77 Tyron Smith T
Defensive Linemen
58 Jack Crawford DT/DE
98 Tyrone Crawford DT
94 Randy Gregory DE
76 Greg Hardy DE/DT - They knew by then that he would not return.
96 Nick Hayden DT
90 DeMarcus Lawrence DE
92 Jeremy Mincey DE - They probably knew he would not return.
63 Casey Walker DT
Linebackers
52 Andrew Gachkar MLB/OLB
59 Anthony Hitchens OLB/MLB
50 Sean Lee OLB
55 Rolando McClain MLB - They should have had him as not returning but instead they gave him a new contract.
53 Mark Nzeocha OLB
51 Kyle Wilber OLB/DE
57 Damien Wilson OLB/MLB
Defensive Backs
39 Brandon Carr CB
24 Morris Claiborne CB
38 Jeff Heath SS/FS
31 Byron Jones FS/CB
40 Danny McCray SS/FS
21 Terrance Mitchell CB
29 Deji Olatoye CB
26 Josh Thomas CB
27 J. J. Wilcox FS
Special Teams
5 Dan Bailey K
6 Chris Jones P
91 L. P. Ladouceur LS

Seems like a good way to find some young and cheap talent
There are talented players out there for the picking

 

[YosemiteSam]

Haha, yeah. I care what a guy on an internet forum, who constantly lashes out at other members because he's insecure (the little Sam I Am perhaps?) with braggadocious claims of "status", really thinks of forum name.

I really do.

I'm still better looking anyway.

Well the EAD and put me on ignore.

/next

 

[Verdict]

I believe I read that Cleveland would be docked a late round compensatory pick if they kept Cooper for one more game. May explain why they cut him.

Why is that??

 

[xwalker]

Other issues with your approach.

The best PS guys are going to be on the team's with the deepest rosters. Many will be playoff teams. These guys will continue to get paid during that time. Since they know the team's system and there will not likely be much change in coaching staff, they've likely got a much more stable situation with their current team.

Another issue is that it is irresponsible to cut guys you might need to get through the final game. You cut Mack and you've got no backup center. The team has to be able to perform competently if there is an injury. Lots of guys are playing for jobs. You can have a player who doesn't know the O out there (assuming you signed someone's PS center) or someone playing out of position (if you didn't get a center).

Ultimately much of what you call for is tanking. The league really looks down on that as it screws competitive balance

The Cowboys tanked the final game this season. Martin is the backup backup Center. They had Martin, Collins and Leary on the roster at Guard.

Very few practice squad players will turn down an offer to join a 53 man roster. Unless they are a special case where the team is paying them more than the standard practice squad wage, they will get about 27K vs 6K per week.

 

[AbeBeta]

The Cowboys tanked the final game this season. Martin is the backup backup Center. They had Martin, Collins and Leary on the roster at Guard.

Very few practice squad players will turn down an offer to join a 53 man roster. Unless they are a special case where the team is paying them more than the standard practice squad wage, they will get about 27K vs 6K per week.

There is a big difference between resting guys when you have a bye locked up and being a crap team quitting on the season.

Also, Looney is the back up center. I guess I just imagined Ryan Seymour on our roster at G last week.

Many players turn down active roster invites. If I could be getting paid possibly for 5-6 more weeks while contributing to a Superbowl team, that would seem a far better experience than relocating to a crap team.

 

[xwalker]

There is a big difference between resting guys when you have a bye locked up and being a crap team quitting on the season.

Also, Looney is the back up center. I guess I just imagined Ryan Seymour on our roster at G last week.

Many players turn down active roster invites. If I could be getting paid possibly for 5-6 more weeks while contributing to a Superbowl team, that would seem a far better experience than relocating to a crap team.

Practice Squad players do continue to get paid at their normal rate for the playoffs (About 6.6K per week). They would have to get paid for 4 playoff games to make up for turning down 1 game on the 53 man roster. They get about 19.9K extra for being on the 53 (26.5K - 6.6K). Three games on the ps is approximatlely 6.6K x 3 = 19.8K. It's almost exactly the same for 1 game on the 53 vs 3 extra games on the practice squad.

If the offer to join the 53 comes with 2 games remaining, then it's not close.

FYI - Seymour was active in the final game.

 

[AbeBeta]

Practice Squad players do continue to get paid at their normal rate for the playoffs (About 6.6K per week). They would have to get paid for 4 playoff games to make up for turning down 1 game on the 53 man roster. They get about 19.9K extra for being on the 53 (26.5K - 6.6K). Three games on the ps is approximatlely 6.6K x 3 = 19.8K. It's almost exactly the same for 1 game on the 53 vs 3 extra games on the practice squad.

If the offer to join the 53 comes with 2 games remaining, then it's not close.

FYI - Seymour was active in the final game.

FYI - you claimed we ran with just three G in the final game. You were wrong.

Also, your financial analysis ignores the fact that players of any real value are going to benefit from a shot in the same system the following season.

Also, you do know that if a team wants to keep a PS player that they can increase their PS pay, right?

So many things play against your approach - sorta makes sense why no high paid NFL GM ever thought of it.

 

[xwalker]

FYI - you claimed we ran with just three G in the final game. You were wrong.

Also, your financial analysis ignores the fact that players of any real value are going to benefit from a shot in the same system the following season.

Also, you do know that if a team wants to keep a PS player that they can increase their PS pay, right?

So many things play against your approach - sorta makes sense why no high paid NFL GM ever thought of it.

I was referring to last season which I referenced originally. The roster I posted was from last season. The concept was based on losing seasons.

I think I mentioned that some ps players might be a special case like Rico Gathers (or Ron Leary a few years ago) .

Your premise is that ps players would turn down a shot at a 53 man roster in order to stay in the same system...

 

[AbeBeta]

I was referring to last season which I referenced originally. The roster I posted was from last season. The concept was based on losing seasons.

I think I mentioned that some ps players might be a special case like Rico Gathers (or Ron Leary a few years ago) .

Your premise is that ps players would turn down a shot at a 53 man roster in order to stay in the same system...

I see, last season. Seeing that Collins missed the final game, it would have been some nice truck to release Mack as well.

And I do believe you overstate the value of being on the 53 man roster. For the player, he's now out of a system where he's had enough success to stick around. If he's on a playoff team, he's an injury away from joining that 53 man roster. He's had time in that system under his belt and can hit the ground running the next year.

Or, he can go to a new team, for a week, with a staff that has little invested in him. Sounds like a solid career move

 

[xwalker]

I see, last season. Seeing that Collins missed the final game, it would have been some nice truck to release Mack as well.

And I do believe you overstate the value of being on the 53 man roster. For the player, he's now out of a system where he's had enough success to stick around. If he's on a playoff team, he's an injury away from joining that 53 man roster. He's had time in that system under his belt and can hit the ground running the next year.

Or, he can go to a new team, for a week, with a staff that has little invested in him. Sounds like a solid career move

How hard is it to grasp that I was giving the Cowboys 2015 season as an example. The roster listing was an example of players that could be dumped if they were not returning. I didn't say they would or should dump all of them.

When players get the offer, they sometimes tell their current team and give them the option to bump them up. Most people with common sense would take an offer to join the 53 as a bigger commitment than a practice squad spot.

David Irving said the Chiefs offered him 53 man roster pay to stay on their PS, but "there was no way I was turning down a spot on the 53".

Good players have a lot of confidence. They believe they can perform in any system. Young players rarely make decisions based primarily on the "system". Players and agents figure that if the team is offering them a job, that the team sees them as a fit in their system.

Your need to find a problem with this concept is bizarre.

 

[AbeBeta]

How hard is it to grasp that I was giving the Cowboys 2015 season as an example. The roster listing was an example of players that could be dumped if they were not returning. I didn't say they would or should dump all of them.

When players get the offer, they sometimes tell their current team and give them the option to bump them up. Most people with common sense would take an offer to join the 53 as a bigger commitment than a practice squad spot.

David Irving said the Chiefs offered him 53 man roster pay to stay on their PS, but "there was no way I was turning down a spot on the 53".

Good players have a lot of confidence. They believe they can perform in any system. Young players rarely make decisions based primarily on the "system". Players and agents figure that if the team is offering them a job, that the team sees them as a fit in their system.

Your need to find a problem with this concept is bizarre.

Irving was signed in September not for the final game of the season. So there is no point being made there.

More importantly, either 32 GMs agree with me and we are all wrong OR you've come up with a genius plan. You don't see tons of cherry picking of PS players leading into the final week of the season. Gee, I wonder why. Is it that NFL execs never though if your idea? Or is it that it just isn't a reasonable approach?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

[QUOTE="Sam I Am, post: 7134352, member: 6592] There is a different between Intellect and Wisdom. Without one, (Wisdom) you're stupid. Without the other (Intellect) you're ignorant. I stand by my statement. Collins is stupid. Whether he has any intellect remains to be seen.[/QUOTE]

Dude you should stop while you're not too far behind.

Lack of wisdom doesn't mean you're stupid. It means you lack experience.

Lack of intellect doesn't mean you're ignorant. It means you lack the ability to think critically and grasp objective facts.

You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Dude you should stop while you're not too far behind.

Lack of wisdom doesn't mean you're stupid. It means you lack experience.

Lack of intellect doesn't mean you're ignorant. It means you lack the ability to think critically and grasp objective facts.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Wow. We see which side of the intellectual bell curve you sit.

Intelligence: The ability to acquire, understand, and use knowledge
Ignorance: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Wisdom: Common sense; good judgment
Stupid: Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.

I have no idea *** is wrong with you guys. I didn't attack you first, so stop ****ing attacking me. Do you feel threatened by me or something? You should worry about real issues in your life, I'm no threat to you. If you I scare you that much, put me in ignore. Either way, stop talking to me if all you're going to do is attack me.

 

[xwalker]

Irving was signed in September not for the final game of the season. So there is no point being made there.

More importantly, either 32 GMs agree with me and we are all wrong OR you've come up with a genius plan. You don't see tons of cherry picking of PS players leading into the final week of the season. Gee, I wonder why. Is it that NFL execs never though if your idea? Or is it that it just isn't a reasonable approach?

You've done an analysis of all teams transactions over the past 10 years?

It would be hard to really analyze because often a good team might call up a PS player, then cut him and he gets claimed on waivers. That player won't show up as a player signed from a practice squad, but the team that claimed him likely would have signed him from the other teams PS if that team didn't call him up for a game or two. Zach Moore was on the Cowboys PS and then called up for a game in December. He was then cut and claimed on waivers by the Niners. There is a good chance the Niners would have signed him directly from the practice squad anyway but he won't show up as a direct Cowboys PS to Niners 53 if somebody analysed the statistics on these types of moves.

The concept does not apply to good teams so it's not 32 GMs. Bad teams are often bad because they have bad GMs so going by what bad teams have done is not really much to hand your hat on.

If I'm off on this concept, it would be that I'm overrating the talent available on practice squads. It would be interesting to know how many practice squad players end up as significant team contributors at some point. Maybe that number is just way smaller than I think.

 

[AbeBeta]

You've done an analysis of all teams transactions over the past 10 years?

It would be hard to really analyze because often a good team might call up a PS player, then cut him and he gets claimed on waivers. That player won't show up as a player signed from a practice squad, but the team that claimed him likely would have signed him from the other teams PS if that team didn't call him up for a game or two. Zach Moore was on the Cowboys PS and then called up for a game in December. He was then cut and claimed on waivers by the Niners. There is a good chance the Niners would have signed him directly from the practice squad anyway but he won't show up as a direct Cowboys PS to Niners 53 if somebody analysed the statistics on these types of moves.

The concept does not apply to good teams so it's not 32 GMs. Bad teams are often bad because they have bad GMs so going by what bad teams have done is not really much to hand your hat on.

If I'm off on this concept, it would be that I'm overrating the talent available on practice squads. It would be interesting to know how many practice squad players end up as significant team contributors at some point. Maybe that number is just way smaller than I think.

Bad teams are bad because of bad GMs.

And you are claiming to be smarter than them?

I'm pretty sure even the worst NFL GM knows more about player acquisitions than the biggest fan.

 

[Mr Cowboy]

I think he is jumping to a conclusion. Colliins obviously has talent but his play has been inconsistent. He didn't step in and become an instant Pro Bowler like Martin. The mistakes that Collins makes are generally mental not physical.

I have no idea if he is a dummy, but I think that the above is the reason the poster has jumped to that conclusion. There is a possibility that he is correct, but I don't think we have sufficient evidence to know.

Looking at his press conference when he signed, shows no signs of him being a dummy! Far from it!