Am I The Only One Always Frustrated With Our Drafts?

[bbgun]

Yeah, I'm sure he woke up that morning and decided he didn't want to coach a dynasty anymore......He quit with a kick in the butt by Jethro.

The "resignation" was window dressing. Jimmy was fired.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Roy Williams, Terrence Newman, and Jason Witten don't think so.

Ask the Lions about bad drafts, we've been above average at drafting. Most of our drafts can't be evaluated until guys like Watkins, Burnett, Carpenter, Spears, Fasano, Crayton, Gurode, MBIII, JuJo, Canty, etc get a few more years under their belt.

 

[Cochese]

The last few drafts have not been as bad as past ones. I do think that Jerry Jones excuses everyone from the War Room just before the 2nd round. Then I'm pretty sure he snorts a bunch of coke, downs a bottle of Jack, and calls in the draft picks. You think I am joking?

1999 - Solomon Page T West Virginia
2000 - Dwayne Goodrich CB Tennessee
2001 - Quincy Carter QB Georgia
Tony Dixon S Alabama
2002 - Antonio Bryant WR Pitt
2003 - Al Johnson C Wisconsin
2004 - Jacob Rogers T USC
2005 - Kevin Burnett LB Tennessee (yet to establish himself)
2006 - Anthony Fasano TE Notre Dame ( I like him just thought we could
have addressed other needs here)

Flozell Adams, Andre Gurode and Julius Jones were also 2nd round picks. They are the only starters we have selected in the 2nd round.

1st round picks make or break your teams but if you look at the teams that have consistant success, they always nail their 2nd round picks as well.

Come on. You cant seriously expect people to take you seriously about the draft when you think that Henson diddnt get a fair chance.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

You want to see a good draft? Look at Dallas' draft in 2005:


Ware is already a pro bowler.
Spears was a Rookie starter.
Burnett is a nickle backer who should get more playing time this year.
Barber led the NFC in touchdown as a second year player.
Canty was a Rookie starter.
Beriault had his knee betray him. Had promise.
Petitti is on another NFL team.
Ratliff is a valuable rotation DL and is only getting better.

That is a good draft anyway you slice it, IMO.

Sorry but the only real player I see in that draft is Ware. Spears is a bust. Petiti outright sucked! Canty is a journeyman at best. Beriault is a nobody. Ratliff hasn't done anything. Barber is good but then again Troy Hambrick looked amazing in limited carries.

 

[AsthmaField]

Sorry but the only real player I see in that draft is Ware. Spears is a bust. Petiti outright sucked! Canty is a journeyman at best. Beriault is a nobody. Ratliff hasn't done anything. Barber is good but then again Troy Hambrick looked amazing in limited carries.

You don't have to be sorry... it's only my opinion. You have a different one and that's okay.

Spears can't be considered a bust at this point, IMO. I'll wait until I see what Phillips can do with his this season to judge. Playing as a 2 gap 3-4 DE hasn't given him just a ton of opportunities.

Petitti isn't very good, I think, but he is still young.

Canty is hard to call just a journeyman at this point. He doesn't have Spears athleticism so I don't hold out as much hope that Phillips can work wonders with him.

Beriault... we'll never know.

Ratliff is a darn good rotation guy, IMO. For a seventh rounder he has done pretty decently considering that Parcells defense hasn't left a lot of room for him to make plays. I think Phillips may make him into something.

Barber is a good back. Star? No, but a real solid guy. He's in another stratosphere from Hambrick. They don't belong in the same sentence.

That is a pretty good draft. All world draft? I don't think so... but you can't call it a bad draft. No way.

 

[philo beddoe]

If it is your contention that we mess up every year, including the 4 that BP ran the show, then what difference does it make that JJ runs the show this year?

Parcells did marginally better. We still fell asleep in the later rounds under BP.

 

[superpunk]

It seems to happen every single year, we make a mess out of the draft. With JJ running the show again, I'm really scared of what we'll do. We always seem to try & get "cute" in some way, which usually backfires. We also seem to lose focus in the later rounds. Will this year be different? Can we actually have a great draft from start to finish? Please, no Quincy Carter type reaches! We often seem to do better with UFAs than we do with our draft picks.

Who would you have us emulate, in terms of the draft, cutie?

 

[philo beddoe]

The "resignation" was window dressing. Jimmy was fired.

Johnson was fired.

 

[superpunk]

Who would you have us emulate, in terms of the draft, cutie?

 

[philo beddoe]

Who would you have us emulate, in terms of the draft, cutie?

"Cutie"? Well, I am a handsome fella, but I'm 100 percent hetero so cease your unwanted advances. LOL

 

[TheProphet]

11,659 posts and this is the best you can come up with??? LOL. Please....

 

[superpunk]

"Cutie"? Well, I am a handsome fella, but I'm 100 percent hetero so cease your unwanted advances. LOL

You didn't answer the question, sweetheart.

 

[philo beddoe]

You didn't answer the question, sweetheart.

"Sweetheart"? Keep your alternative lifestyle to yourself, Nancy. How about the Pats, Colts for starters. Please don't respond to any more of my posts with the gay stuff. LOL

 

[Doomsday101]

No need for frustrations, we have not drafted yet. As for the last 4 to 5 seasons I have not been upset with the selections. Not all picks will pan out but I think the team has done a much better job in these past few years and expect the same this coming draft.

 

[superpunk]

"Sweetheart"? Keep your alternative lifestyle to yourself, Nancy. How about the Pats, Colts for starters. Please don't respond to any more of my posts with the gay stuff. LOL

OK, hon - So if you had your druthers, you'd rather us draft like the Patriots.

Why don't we examine our two teams' drafts over the past 4 years?

Patriots

2003 draft - They had 10 picks in this draft. Only 4 remain with the team - Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson and Dan Koppen. 2nd round receiver Bethel Johnson was traded to the saints last year, and couldn't catch onto a team where Terrence Copper played a significant role last year.

2004 draft - They began by drafting Wilfork, but followed it up with Ben Watson in the first round, despite spending a first rounder on Ben Graham two years prior. Neither TE has even approached first round worth, and the Patriots are rumored to be letting Graham walk soon. Aside from those 2, only Marquise Hill is still on their team, buried on the depth chart. 3 players out of 8 picks.

2005 draft - They helped their Oline here, with Kazcur and Mankins. Good draft - 4 out of 7 picks remain with the team.

2006 - They draft Maroney and Jackson, solid picks if unspectacular as rookies, and follow that up with TWO straight TE selections, despite having two first rounders on the roster. 4th round TE Mills is no longer with them. Decent draft - 6 out of 10 picks remain with the team.

In all, 17 out of 35 picks remain with the team. Slightly less than 50%. Few of those picks have distinguished themselves, at all. Mankins, Warren, Samuel are pretty much the cream. None have made the pro-bowl.

Cowboys -

2003 - Our first 4 picks remain with the team. Jason Witten is a perrenial pro-bowler, and Newman is one of the league's best corners. 4 out of 7

2004 - Without a first round pick, we move and select Julius, an average back. Patrick Crayton was a steal in the 7th. 4 out of 8 players remain.

2005 - DeMarcus Ware, pro-bowler. Marion Barber, second in te NFL in TDs. 6 out of 8 players remain on the team.

2006 - 7 of 8 players remain. None have distinguished themselves, but Watkins and Carpenter are at least starters. Hatcher contributed alot, as did Fasano when we stayed 2 TE.

That's 21 out of 31. That's 68%. Who should be emulating who, sweetie? Emulating the Patriots means having a lower success rate, drafting MORE Tight ends, and drafting QBs who never even palyed in college, not to mention Kliff Klingsbury. Also, we would have to draft LESS impact players and pro-bowlers, to emulate them correctly.

Sit down, hon.

 

[zrinkill]

OK, hon - So if you had your druthers, you'd rather us draft like the Patriots.

Why don't we examine our two teams' drafts over the past 4 years?

Patriots

2003 draft - They had 10 picks in this draft. Only 4 remain with the team - Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson and Dan Koppen. 2nd round receiver Bethel Johnson was traded to the saints last year, and couldn't catch onto a team where Terrence Copper played a significant role last year.

2004 draft - They began by drafting Wilfork, but followed it up with Ben Watson in the first round, despite spending a first rounder on Ben Graham two years prior. Neither TE has even approached first round worth, and the Patriots are rumored to be letting Graham walk soon. Aside from those 2, only Marquise Hill is still on their team, buried on the depth chart. 3 players out of 8 picks.

2005 draft - They helped their Oline here, with Kazcur and Mankins. Good draft - 4 out of 7 picks remain with the team.

2006 - They draft Maroney and Jackson, solid picks if unspectacular as rookies, and follow that up with TWO straight TE selections, despite having two first rounders on the roster. 4th round TE Mills is no longer with them. Decent draft - 6 out of 10 picks remain with the team.

In all, 17 out of 35 picks remain with the team. Slightly less than 50%. Few of those picks have distinguished themselves, at all. Mankins, Warren, Samuel are pretty much the cream. None have made the pro-bowl.

Cowboys -

2003 - Our first 4 picks remain with the team. Jason Witten is a perrenial pro-bowler, and Newman is one of the league's best corners. 4 out of 7

2004 - Without a first round pick, we move and select Julius, an average back. Patrick Crayton was a steal in the 7th. 4 out of 8 players remain.

2005 - DeMarcus Ware, pro-bowler. Marion Barber, second in te NFL in TDs. 6 out of 8 players remain on the team.

2006 - 7 of 8 players remain. None have distinguished themselves, but Watkins and Carpenter are at least starters. Hatcher contributed alot, as did Fasano when we stayed 2 TE.

That's 21 out of 31. That's 68%. Who should be emulating who, sweetie? Emulating the Patriots means having a lower success rate, drafting MORE Tight ends, and drafting QBs who never even palyed in college, not to mention Kliff Klingsbury. Also, we would have to draft LESS impact players and pro-bowlers, to emulate them correctly.

Sit down, hon.

DANG ........

 

[mmillman]

I swear I thought Antonio Bryant was a third round pick.

Anyway, the drafts for the last few years haven't been bad at all. If you think all teams don't have misses, then you're mistaken. Just look at the draft history of any team and you'll see misses from the first to the seventh round.

Just pick a draft and look at it. Pick the 1990 draft for instance. We got Emmitt Smith, undoubtably a good pick at #17. Look at all the misses in the first round:

* = Bust
$ = Star player
@ = average/solid player

1. Jeff George*
2. Blair Thomas*
3. Cortez Kennedy $
4. Keith McCants*
5. Junior Seau $
6. Mark Carrier @
7. Andre Ware*
8. Chris Singleton *
9. Richmond Webb $
10. Ray Agnew*
11. Anthony Smith*
12. James Francis @
13. Percy Snow*
14. Renaldo Turnbull @
15. Lamar Lathon @
16. J. D. Williams @
17. Emmitt Smith $
18. Tony Bennett @
19. Darrell Thompson*
20. Steve Broussard *
21. Eric Green @
22. Ben Smith *
23. Bern Brostek @
24. Rodney Hampton @
25. Dexter Carter *

You get the idea. That's 12 busts out of 25 picks. Very nearly 50% of the players picked in round 1 of the 1990 draft were busts. Nine of them were merely average players, and didn't do much to distinguish themselves in their careers. That means that out of the first 25 picks in 1990... 21 of them were nothing special with over half of that 21 being downright bad.

That's what we're talking about when discussing the NFL draft. It's a crapshoot. It isn't very often that you really hit, even in round 1... much less when you're talking about later rounds.

I swear, I think some people think a draft is bad if you don't hit on every pick you make. Nobody does that. Heck, a team is damn lucky if half of their picks end up making the final roster.

You want to see a good draft? Look at Dallas' draft in 2005:

1a Ware
1b Spears
2Burnett
4Barber III
4Canty
6Beriault
6Petitti
7Ratliff

Ware is already a pro bowler.
Spears was a Rookie starter.
Burnett is a nickle backer who should get more playing time this year.
Barber led the NFC in touchdown as a second year player.
Canty was a Rookie starter.
Beriault had his knee betray him. Had promise.
Petitti is on another NFL team.
Ratliff is a valuable rotation DL and is only getting better.

That is a good draft anyway you slice it, IMO.

And as for your "draft guru" hero, Jimmy Johnson... back to that 1990 draft. Jimmy tried like heck to trade up to draft both Ray Agnew (*) and James Francis (@). He wanted a bust (Agnew) and an average player (Francis) instead of Emmitt Smith. Only after his trade proposals were turned down by two different teams did he settle for Emmitt Smith. In all his draft guru wisdom, Johnson had traded for Terrence Flagler at RB that year and he wanted defensive help instead of a RB. Once Emmitt slid on down and he couldn't trade for the defenders he wanted, Jimmy went ahead a picked Smith. Something Green Bay would've done with the next pick had we not traded up with Pittsburgh from 21 to 17. Had Jimmy been successful in trading for Ray Agnew, you'd probably think the Green Bay GM was a draft guru and not Jimmy.

Johnson walked into Dallas and already had Michael Irvin sitting there and had the first pick in the draft in that year. Anyone would've picked Troy Aikman with that pick... you didn't have to be a guru to do that. Then, he lucked into Emmitt like I mentioned above. There are the triplets that drove our 3 super bowl appearences. Jimmy can't really take credit for any of them except Emmitt, and he's damn lucky that nobody traded with him.

Then because of the H. Walker trade that Jerry Jones made, he had a buttload of picks for three years and frankly he missed on a lot of those picks.

IMO, Jimmy Johnson wasn't nearly the "draft guru" that many thought he was.

In the 1991 draft Jimmy traded up to the first overall pick and took Russell Maryland. While he wasn't a bad player... he was only solid and wasn't nearly worth trading up to the top spot for. Then with the other first rounder that we had, Jimmy took Alvin Harper who wasn't nearly as good a player as many thought. Anyone opposite Irvin playing in that offense would've been pretty damn good. Once Alvin left, his average ability was shown. That year (1991) Jimmy also drafted these guys:

3 James Richards OG
4 Curvin Richards RB
4 Bill Musgrave QB
4Tony Hill DE
4 Kevin Harris DE
5 Darrick Brownlow LB
6 Mike Sullivan OG
9 Damon Mays WR
10 Sean Love OG
11 Tony Boles RB

That's 10 pretty crappy to only average guys that Jimmy wanted. Everyone misses. Everyone.

He did get some good guys in 1991, but with that many picks, including the #1 overall and two additional #1 picks, who wouldn't? (He had a third first rounder that he took Kelvin Prichett with and traded him to Detroit.)

The following year in 1992 Johnson took Kevin Smith in round 1... a good pick. Then, with his second first rounder he took Robert Jones who was nothing great... just a solid LB.

In 1993 Jimmy took Kevin Williams as his first pick. It was the second round and Jimmy took a kick returner. Last year, people gave Bill Parcells and Jerry hell because they took a KR in the fourth round. Had Jerry drafted one in the second, all heck would break loose.

Everyone misses in the draft. Even your "draft guru" Jimmy Johnson. Heck, his drafts in Miami proved that.

Johnson orchestrated the trade with Walker, Jones signed off on it. You picked and choosed your way to make your point. I agree that we kind of "lucked" into Smith but he was not a hot commodity after running a 4.6 40. Johnson also drafted Wisnieski who was a pro bowler for many years in Oakland, Johnston who was arguably the best FB in the league during the 90's. Leon Lett, Tolbert, Darren Woodson, Williams, Stepnoski, Norton, Aikman, Maryland, Larry Brown, Kevin Smith, Darrin Smith, Ron Stone, Jimmy Smith, Brock Marion etc.......... Lots of good football players and a some great ones also. Players like Lett and Marion were late round gems that really helped the team.

The talent level fell dramatically when Jones forced Johnson out. Parcells turned the talent around and hopefully Ireland can continue the trend.

Bottom line is Jones has not been a good judge of talent and hasn't been good at working the draft or free agency.

 

[zrinkill]

Johnson orchestrated the trade with Walker, Jones signed off on it.

So you are saying that a guy who never brokered a big money deal in his life, was the guy who orchestrated the Walker deal?

I dont believe that at all ...... that was a million dollar trade and Jimmy was a college coach who never dealt with Salaries before .....

Jerry was the deal maker behind the Walker trade ...... Jimmy just gave him the college scouting knowledge to back it up.

 

[WoodysGirl]

OK, hon - So if you had your druthers, you'd rather us draft like the Patriots.

Why don't we examine our two teams' drafts over the past 4 years?

Patriots

2003 draft - They had 10 picks in this draft. Only 4 remain with the team - Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson and Dan Koppen. 2nd round receiver Bethel Johnson was traded to the saints last year, and couldn't catch onto a team where Terrence Copper played a significant role last year.

2004 draft - They began by drafting Wilfork, but followed it up with Ben Watson in the first round, despite spending a first rounder on Ben Graham two years prior. Neither TE has even approached first round worth, and the Patriots are rumored to be letting Graham walk soon. Aside from those 2, only Marquise Hill is still on their team, buried on the depth chart. 3 players out of 8 picks.

2005 draft - They helped their Oline here, with Kazcur and Mankins. Good draft - 4 out of 7 picks remain with the team.

2006 - They draft Maroney and Jackson, solid picks if unspectacular as rookies, and follow that up with TWO straight TE selections, despite having two first rounders on the roster. 4th round TE Mills is no longer with them. Decent draft - 6 out of 10 picks remain with the team.

In all, 17 out of 35 picks remain with the team. Slightly less than 50%. Few of those picks have distinguished themselves, at all. Mankins, Warren, Samuel are pretty much the cream. None have made the pro-bowl.

Cowboys -

2003 - Our first 4 picks remain with the team. Jason Witten is a perrenial pro-bowler, and Newman is one of the league's best corners. 4 out of 7

2004 - Without a first round pick, we move and select Julius, an average back. Patrick Crayton was a steal in the 7th. 4 out of 8 players remain.

2005 - DeMarcus Ware, pro-bowler. Marion Barber, second in te NFL in TDs. 6 out of 8 players remain on the team.

2006 - 7 of 8 players remain. None have distinguished themselves, but Watkins and Carpenter are at least starters. Hatcher contributed alot, as did Fasano when we stayed 2 TE.

That's 21 out of 31. That's 68%. Who should be emulating who, sweetie? Emulating the Patriots means having a lower success rate, drafting MORE Tight ends, and drafting QBs who never even palyed in college, not to mention Kliff Klingsbury. Also, we would have to draft LESS impact players and pro-bowlers, to emulate them correctly.

Sit down, hon.

philo beddoe >>:spanking: << superpunk

 

[Hostile]

OK, hon - So if you had your druthers, you'd rather us draft like the Patriots.

Why don't we examine our two teams' drafts over the past 4 years?

Patriots

2003 draft - They had 10 picks in this draft. Only 4 remain with the team - Ty Warren, Asante Samuel, Eugene Wilson and Dan Koppen. 2nd round receiver Bethel Johnson was traded to the saints last year, and couldn't catch onto a team where Terrence Copper played a significant role last year.

2004 draft - They began by drafting Wilfork, but followed it up with Ben Watson in the first round, despite spending a first rounder on Ben Graham two years prior. Neither TE has even approached first round worth, and the Patriots are rumored to be letting Graham walk soon. Aside from those 2, only Marquise Hill is still on their team, buried on the depth chart. 3 players out of 8 picks.

2005 draft - They helped their Oline here, with Kazcur and Mankins. Good draft - 4 out of 7 picks remain with the team.

2006 - They draft Maroney and Jackson, solid picks if unspectacular as rookies, and follow that up with TWO straight TE selections, despite having two first rounders on the roster. 4th round TE Mills is no longer with them. Decent draft - 6 out of 10 picks remain with the team.

In all, 17 out of 35 picks remain with the team. Slightly less than 50&#37;. Few of those picks have distinguished themselves, at all. Mankins, Warren, Samuel are pretty much the cream. None have made the pro-bowl.

Cowboys -

2003 - Our first 4 picks remain with the team. Jason Witten is a perrenial pro-bowler, and Newman is one of the league's best corners. 4 out of 7

2004 - Without a first round pick, we move and select Julius, an average back. Patrick Crayton was a steal in the 7th. 4 out of 8 players remain.

2005 - DeMarcus Ware, pro-bowler. Marion Barber, second in te NFL in TDs. 6 out of 8 players remain on the team.

2006 - 7 of 8 players remain. None have distinguished themselves, but Watkins and Carpenter are at least starters. Hatcher contributed alot, as did Fasano when we stayed 2 TE.

That's 21 out of 31. That's 68%. Who should be emulating who, sweetie? Emulating the Patriots means having a lower success rate, drafting MORE Tight ends, and drafting QBs who never even palyed in college, not to mention Kliff Klingsbury. Also, we would have to draft LESS impact players and pro-bowlers, to emulate them correctly.

Sit down, hon.

Ouch, that's going to leave a mark.