America, Soccer, and Athleticism

[Nova]

Interesting idea, but playing soccer helps you be a better cornerback moreso than playing cornerback helps you be a better soccer player. Certainly helped me.

And from a skill standpoint, I believe, in general, developing the touch needed to compete on a world class soccer level has to be nurtured from a young age. Becoming that comfortable with your feet is like learning how to write with the opposite hand. The older you are the harder it becomes.

Athleticism is great and we probably need better athletes, but I think the biggest problem we have is that Soccer is just not big enough in our culture.

We just do not really grow up with it on our televisions, dominating ratings and ESPN's top 10. There isn't the same fervor surrounding it as Basketball or Football where you seemingly inherit the rules by simply plopping down in front of the television on a Sunday afternoon with Pop.

And, I think a big problem lies in stunted growth provided by youth soccer, where the goal is just to "KICK IT KICK IT KICK IT!"

There is an impatience to American soccer that is ingrained into us at the youth level that never really seems to disappear. That's partially because of our youth soccer days, but I just think it's who we are as a population (generally). We grow up watching impatient sports-- fast pace/high scoring basketball and football where going backwards is the absolute last thing you want.

Until we can get past that and it's evident in our game that our teams are becoming more creative with their strategies to create opportunity and fool opposing defenses, I think we'll just be that scrappy team that almost pulled it off.

 

[jterrell]

If you hand picked the best 64 athletes in this country and trained them for 4 years you could field a very competitive World Cup side. --some would have previous soccer training and others would emerge better able to gain skill quickly than others.

But not 64 of any one position or even one sport.

The US has 20 million kids playing soccer.
It produces plenty of talent through age 16.
We lack the professional leagues of Europe but are getting plenty of kids going over there.
As MLS salaries increase and the country recognizes global Soccer opps it will grow quite a lot.
Soccer is arguably the most popular sport at the Middle school level in this country.

We pretend the US are not good enough to compete but that is just garbage.
Yes, the US lost two games at the World Cup... both after playing 90 minutes even and both against legit top 5 teams in the world right now.

The US doesn't need to change anything except perhaps how MLS develops kids 16-20.
That is a crucial stage and we aren't very good at maximizing it.
A lot of guys have to leave the Academy and go overseas for a true developmental experience that puts them in the elite.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Until our top athletes looke at soccer like they look at the NBA and the NFL, we will never be a power.

It's amazing how people get up in arms over our lack of dominance in soccer, when the answer is this simple. The top athletes will never choose Soccer over the NFL, MLB or NBA until the minimum/average salaries are comparable. The AVEREGE salary for MLS is less than $208k. The minimum salary is less than $40k.

These numbers cannot compete with the minimum salary/average salary for the other major sports, and until that changes, not enough of the top athletes will not take soccer seriously after middle school

 

[joseephuss]

It's amazing how people get up in arms over our lack of dominance in soccer, when the answer is this simple. The top athletes will never choose Soccer over the NFL, MLB or NBA until the minimum/average salaries are comparable. The AVEREGE salary for MLS is less than $208k. The minimum salary is less than $40k.

These numbers cannot compete with the minimum salary/average salary for the other major sports, and until that changes, not enough of the top athletes will not take soccer seriously after middle school

Salary is only a limiting factor when you use the MLS as the comparison. The NFL is the top football league in the world. The MLB is the top baseball league in the world. The NBA is the top basketball leage in the world. The MLS is not the top soccer league in the world. Not even close. The top leagues are in Europe and they have salaries comparable to those of the NFL.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Salary is only a limiting factor when you use the MLS as the comparison. The NFL is the top football league in the world. The MLB is the top baseball league in the world. The NBA is the top basketball leage in the world. The MLS is not the top soccer league in the world. Not even close. The top leagues are in Europe and they have salaries comparable to those of the NFL, MLB and the NBA.

Yea.....but there also in Europe. If there was a US league that paid comparable far more of the top athletes would choose soccer.

Aldo, while the stars make comparable money, are the average/minimum salaries in line as well over seas?

 

[trickblue]

American Football... It's what's for dinner...

Soccer is the occasional frilly drink...

 

[jterrell]

Yea.....but there also in Europe. If there was a US league that paid comparable far more of the top athletes would choose soccer.

Aldo, while the stars make comparable money, are the average/minimum salaries in line as well over seas?

minimums overseas vary but for any major sides yes, they compare.
they sign kids to deals at 16 that exceed what most MLS guys make.
we are seeing more and more American players go that route which is very good for US Soccer.

locally MLS needs to invest in u21 teams for a few major cities and start paying kids earlier.
you get 24x7 development when you pay for it.
right now the onus is on the kids parents to pay for development... and 99% of them never play again after high school beyond rec leagues.

 

[joseephuss]

Yea.....but there also in Europe. If there was a US league that paid comparable far more of the top athletes would choose soccer.

Aldo, while the stars make comparable money, are the average/minimum salaries in line as well over seas?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

There was a video did where they had Reggie Bush do soccer drills and David Beckham do football drills. Bush actually acquitted himself quite well and had a very powerful leg. And you could see that he could probably be a pretty good goalie right away. Beckham had ZERO football skills. He was slow, puny and looked fairly un-athletic. I don't think you could just grab some point guards and cornerbacks and teach them soccer and they would be a force in 4 years. There's too much to learn and it takes a lifetime of learning. That and I wouldn't mind seeing somebody like Patrick Willis playing midfielder or Lebron playing goalie. But, there is a clear lack of athleticism on the US team as the best athletes in this country usually go to football, basketball, baseball, hockey and even lacrosse before they go to soccer.

Soccer is also a 'poor man's game.' Part of the reason why these 2nd and 3rd world countries play it so well is that it virtually costs nothing to play. The same with basketball in the US and now we see basketball more and more popular across the globe.

But, in the US it's usually the middle and upper class that get into playing soccer.





YR

 

[CATCH17]

MLS sucks but that is no reason for Americans to not have interest and get better at the sport.


South American and Europeans have come to the NBA and made themselves better players. United States players need to do the same and go play in the better leagues because currently the MLS is bottom of the barrel.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you hand picked the best 64 athletes in this country and trained them for 4 years you could field a very competitive World Cup side. --some would have previous soccer training and others would emerge better able to gain skill quickly than others.

But not 64 of any one position or even one sport.

The US has 20 million kids playing soccer.
It produces plenty of talent through age 16.
We lack the professional leagues of Europe but are getting plenty of kids going over there.
As MLS salaries increase and the country recognizes global Soccer opps it will grow quite a lot.
Soccer is arguably the most popular sport at the Middle school level in this country.

We pretend the US are not good enough to compete but that is just garbage.
Yes, the US lost two games at the World Cup... both after playing 90 minutes even and both against legit top 5 teams in the world right now.

The US doesn't need to change anything except perhaps how MLS develops kids 16-20.
That is a crucial stage and we aren't very good at maximizing it.
A lot of guys have to leave the Academy and go overseas for a true developmental experience that puts them in the elite.

I was talking to Bob Brown, our local ESPN Radio host here in New Mexico and he was talking with Mike Edwards, Executive Vice President of U.S. Soccer Federation (who is from New Mexico and still lives . Edwards believed that part of the problem for America is that too many young talented soccer athletes in the U.S. play Soccer in College. He seemed to think that the College experience hurt the development of U.S. Soccer players. Partly because of the style of play in Collegiate Soccer I think but mainly because the development is inhibited by playing in College as opposed to developmental professional leagues. In other countries, talented players are scooped up by clubs and their development comes at a quicker pace which means that they are better younger and have more experience and better developed talent in the prime of their careers. I thought it was interesting and I do wonder if there is something to that. One of the things that the US professional soccer league has done, in order to obtain a franchise, is to implement a system in which all pro clubs must build and institute a Soccer Developmental Academy to help develop U.S. Soccer. Kind of a first step in changing the course of American Soccer.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

MLS sucks but that is no reason for Americans to not have interest and get better at the sport.


South American and Europeans have come to the NBA and made themselves better players. United States players need to do the same and go play in the better leagues because currently the MLS is bottom of the barrel.

One of the best Basketball Players I ever watched play was Hakeem Olajuwon. I believe that the first Basketball Olajuwon ever played was at the College Level at the University of Houston under Guy Lewis. There are stories that when Olajuwon came to Houston, he couldn't even dunk a basketball. The point of the story being that Soccer developed Olajuwon's agility and dexterity, which in turn, allowed him to transfer those skills to the NBA. He was one of the quickest, most coordinated big men I've ever seen play. Probably goes without saying but I think the whole Soccer thing works both ways and may actually help develop skills that can also be used in other sports.

 

[jterrell]

I was talking to Bob Brown, our local ESPN Radio host here in New Mexico and he was talking with Mike Edwards, Executive Vice President of U.S. Soccer Federation (who is from New Mexico and still lives . Edwards believed that part of the problem for America is that too many young talented soccer athletes in the U.S. play Soccer in College. He seemed to think that the College experience hurt the development of U.S. Soccer players. Partly because of the style of play in Collegiate Soccer I think but mainly because the development is inhibited by playing in College as opposed to developmental professional leagues. In other countries, talented players are scooped up by clubs and their development comes at a quicker pace which means that they are better younger and have more experience and better developed talent in the prime of their careers. I thought it was interesting and I do wonder if there is something to that. One of the things that the US professional soccer league has done, in order to obtain a franchise, is to implement a system in which all pro clubs must build and institute a Soccer Developmental Academy to help develop U.S. Soccer. Kind of a first step in changing the course of American Soccer.

Yup. The caliber of soccer on a collegiate level is some where between bad and horrific.
It is the black hole in soccer development. A lot of good players saw that time as treading water skillwise and then developed after being drafted into MLS or going overseas.
That is a waste for 4 prime years.

Virtually zero NBA players develop in college (just see Cuban's rant).
Same with baseball, hockey and most sports.
Football is the notable exception but that has a lot to do with how much time male athletes need to fully mature for a sport as violent as football.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yup. The caliber of soccer on a collegiate level is some where between bad and horrific.
It is the black hole in soccer development. A lot of good players saw that time as treading water skillwise and then developed after being drafted into MLS or going overseas.
That is a waste for 4 prime years.

Virtually zero NBA players develop in college (just see Cuban's rant).
Same with baseball, hockey and most sports.
Football is the notable exception but that has a lot to do with how much time male athletes need to fully mature for a sport as violent as football.

I think it really depends on the program, to a great extent, in Baseball but generally I agree with you. Football is absolutely the exception for the reasons you outline. The one area I think College Athletics do help, where Major Professional Sports in America is maturity. It's hard enough to handle 22/23 year old players when they come into Big Time sports but 19 and 20 year olds is like herding cats. Other then that, I generally agree with you.

 

[CATCH17]

One of the best Basketball Players I ever watched play was Hakeem Olajuwon. I believe that the first Basketball Olajuwon ever played was at the College Level at the University of Houston under Guy Lewis. There are stories that when Olajuwon came to Houston, he couldn't even dunk a basketball. The point of the story being that Soccer developed Olajuwon's agility and dexterity, which in turn, allowed him to transfer those skills to the NBA. He was one of the quickest, most coordinated big men I've ever seen play. Probably goes without saying but I think the whole Soccer thing works both ways and may actually help develop skills that can also be used in other sports.

I actually agree.

The passing and finding space alone transitions to almost every skill position in the NFL and every position in the NBA.

Soccer has a lot of elements from all of our main sports. It just needs to be taught in it's complexity instead of a bunch of kids running around kicking the ball.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I actually agree.

The passing and finding space alone transitions to almost every skill position in the NFL and every position in the NBA.

Soccer has a lot of elements from all of our main sports. It just needs to be taught in it's complexity instead of a bunch of kids running around kicking the ball.

I think that AYSO, at a very young age, is mostly herd ball and that's understandable. That's kind of the baseline starting point to see if kids are A. interested in the game and B. have some physical and mental attributes to excel. However, once you get into club soccer, which is pretty much everywhere now, you get away from that. At that point, you start teaching the game.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh this is too easy.

Look. We could win the WC EASILY EVERY SINGLE TIME. All we have to do is get the top couple of dozen punters in the NFL on the USMNT. They're already good with their feet, they've got flopping down to a science, and they're FOOTBALL players, just ask any of them. Rest of the world wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[jterrell]

I think it really depends on the program, to a great extent, in Baseball but generally I agree with you. Football is absolutely the exception for the reasons you outline. The one area I think College Athletics do help, where Major Professional Sports in America is maturity. It's hard enough to handle 22/23 year old players when they come into Big Time sports but 19 and 20 year olds is like herding cats. Other then that, I generally agree with you.

It would make for an interesting study to look at athletes who turned pro at 16 versus those who graduate into collegiate programs.

I was a college athlete and let me tell you... it more entitling than anything else on the planet.
The special treatment you receive is unmatched... ok well as a football or basketball player.
For a kid who turns pro it is very real as a job very quickly.
You don't have 4 years of free meals and free room and board.
You play poorly or show a lack of work ethic and a team can sell you off overseas.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

MLS sucks but that is no reason for Americans to not have interest and get better at the sport.


South American and Europeans have come to the NBA and made themselves better players. United States players need to do the same and go play in the better leagues because currently the MLS is bottom of the barrel.

thats your opinion . I think MLS is getting much better and it use to suck . But its a huge difference now . Very competitive look at USA national team mostly MLS players. They definitely didn't embarrass themselves. Give it another 10 years and it'll be up there in the top 5-6 leagues in the world. USA is a top 15 team . Young talent is on the rise . The difference between being good and great is technical ability and coaching . We are getting the coaching part down now with klinnsman . Now the technical ability has to improve. I think we saw a glimmer of it(future) with Yedlin , and Green.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...he-world-by-Sporting-Intelligence.html?pg=all

 

[burmafrd]

misleading chart. You have to factor in team size and things like salary caps. The NFL would be much higher per athlete if those were not factors. Basketball especially is very different with its tiny team.