America, Soccer, and Athleticism

[jterrell]

misleading chart. You have to factor in team size and things like salary caps. The NFL would be much higher per athlete if those were not factors. Basketball especially is very different with its tiny team.

It is not misleading at all. It is the average of the entire leagues.
If anything the soccer guys are dragged lower by the large teams they field.

The only athletes who make what elite soccer stars make is Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods types and that has nothing to do with league salaries.
Soccer is BY FAR the most heavily marketed sport in the world. And has BY FAR the most money coming in from TV contracts across the globe.
Soccer salaries are only going to rise.

The NFL is a beast of it's own but it is well contained within the US and is nearing saturation points in this country.
They should be looking to expand the season by a few weeks and add a couple more BYE weeks.
The NFL off-season is an eternity right now.

I honestly have no idea how NHL and MLB keep the salaries they do.

 

[casmith07]

I've said it before and I'll say it here: the only people who have access and exposure with soccer are rich, white families in America. It's why none of the big name soccer players you see here come from humble or poor beginnings like our basketball or football athletes, or the foreign-born baseball athletes in the MLB.

It has to be accessible to all children from a young age like it is in other countries.

 

[joseephuss]

I don't think that is true. It is difficult for children from moderate to poor incomes to stay involved in soccer through their teenage years, but it is possible. It takes quite a bit of effort and sacrifice. Look up the story of Clint Dempsey for example. He hardly comes from a rich background. The difference is that in the U.S., his story is the exception while in other countries it is more common.

 

[Future]

thats your opinion . I think MLS is getting much better and it use to suck . But its a huge difference now . Very competitive look at USA national team mostly MLS players. They definitely didn't embarrass themselves. Give it another 10 years and it'll be up there in the top 5-6 leagues in the world. USA is a top 15 team . Young talent is on the rise . The difference between being good and great is technical ability and coaching . We are getting the coaching part down now with klinnsman . Now the technical ability has to improve. I think we saw a glimmer of it(future) with Yedlin , and Green.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...he-world-by-Sporting-Intelligence.html?pg=all

Mostly MLS players but were woefully inferior to the likes of Belgium and Germany.

And, not for nothing, but all of the best US players either do or have played in Europe...Bradley, Dempsey, Altidore, Yedlin, Green, Jones, and, of course, Howard.

 

[burmafrd]

It is not misleading at all. It is the average of the entire leagues.
If anything the soccer guys are dragged lower by the large teams they field.

The only athletes who make what elite soccer stars make is Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods types and that has nothing to do with league salaries.
Soccer is BY FAR the most heavily marketed sport in the world. And has BY FAR the most money coming in from TV contracts across the globe.
Soccer salaries are only going to rise.

The NFL is a beast of it's own but it is well contained within the US and is nearing saturation points in this country.
They should be looking to expand the season by a few weeks and add a couple more BYE weeks.
The NFL off-season is an eternity right now.

I honestly have no idea how NHL and MLB keep the salaries they do.

without a salary cap the NFL and NBA and MLB would have higher salaries. Trying to ignore that is hilarious.

 

[khiladi]

So my theory is that if we got the 64 starting corners in the NFL and got them to play soccer for the 4 years leading to the next world cup. They would compete and be a force. I think that America failing to be a powerhouse at the world stage had more to do that those who would naturally lean towards soccer in other countries are more likely to become corners or Point guards in the US.

Discuss

Not a chance. Kids raised on soccer their whole lives, develop a certain aptitude for it. Especially when that play is happening while their brain is developing at rapid rates because of youth. That foot skill is ridiculous.

 

[joseephuss]

without a salary cap the NFL and NBA and MLB would have higher salaries. Trying to ignore that is hilarious.

MLB doesn't have a salary cap. And no one was ignoring the salary caps of the other leagues. They exist. So what? Why bring up a hypothetical of them not existing? That isn't going to happen.

 

[jterrell]

I've said it before and I'll say it here: the only people who have access and exposure with soccer are rich, white families in America. It's why none of the big name soccer players you see here come from humble or poor beginnings like our basketball or football athletes, or the foreign-born baseball athletes in the MLB.

It has to be accessible to all children from a young age like it is in other countries.

sorta true but not wholly.

the two USMNT local guys: omar gonzales and clint dempsey are both good and grew up fairly poor.
soccer is played a ton on schoolyards and in parks by hispanic immigrants with far below poverty level incomes.

basketball like soccer is available to the poor at much larger percentage than other sports.
elite level training and development often is more limited to wealthy families but that will recede as more and more kids play the game.
in the end elite athleticism and god-given talent drive people to work with you free of charge.

20 people can play with 1 soccer ball.. that is about as cheap a sport as you will ever find.

But I would like to see MLS start signing kids at 16 and paying them as developmental guys.
a 150K investment in a 16 year old isn't going to always lead to making 5m in return like with Yedlin but it can happen enough to be profitable while also driving soccer forward in this country.
There is no reason we can't follow what baseball has done in Latin America to great result sin this country for Soccer.

 

[jterrell]

Mostly MLS players but were woefully inferior to the likes of Belgium and Germany.

And, not for nothing, but all of the best US players either do or have played in Europe...Bradley, Dempsey, Altidore, Yedlin, Green, Jones, and, of course, Howard.

again that is because those players were in professional systems almost to a man by the time they were 16.
the US is going to see more and more of that.
we are sending a lot of young guys to Europe now beyond even just the dual citizenship players who may well carry us in 4 years.

 

[jterrell]

without a salary cap the NFL and NBA and MLB would have higher salaries. Trying to ignore that is hilarious.

The NFL salary cap is derived off of income.
It is certainly limiting for some teams but largely unproven as an overall salary decelerator on average.
We saw that with the uncapped year.
Salaries have risen here tied to free agency status not caps.

The NBA salary cap is so soft as to not matter. Teams have been well above twice the salary cap in a given year.

If every Euro player was truly made a free agent every 3 or 4 years those salaries would be ginormous.
Instead the players are bought and sold between teams for enormous sums.

 

[daschoo]

The NFL salary cap is derived off of income.
It is certainly limiting for some teams but largely unproven as an overall salary decelerator on average.
We saw that with the uncapped year.
Salaries have risen here tied to free agency status not caps.

The NBA salary cap is so soft as to not matter. Teams have been well above twice the salary cap in a given year.

If every Euro player was truly made a free agent every 3 or 4 years those salaries would be ginormous.
Instead the players are bought and sold between teams for enormous sums.

In fairness most contracts are 3 or 4 years and if the player doesn't sign a new deal with the club then he is a free agent.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

The NFL salary cap is derived off of income.
It is certainly limiting for some teams but largely unproven as an overall salary decelerator on average.
We saw that with the uncapped year.

This is completely ignoring the collusion that occurred during the uncapped year

The NBA salary cap is so soft as to not matter. Teams have been well above twice the salary cap in a given year.

Not true at all. The NBA has a salary max (typically 30% for vets) that is not so flexible

 

[casmith07]

sorta true but not wholly.

the two USMNT local guys: omar gonzales and clint dempsey are both good and grew up fairly poor.
soccer is played a ton on schoolyards and in parks by hispanic immigrants with far below poverty level incomes.

basketball like soccer is available to the poor at much larger percentage than other sports.
elite level training and development often is more limited to wealthy families but that will recede as more and more kids play the game.
in the end elite athleticism and god-given talent drive people to work with you free of charge.

20 people can play with 1 soccer ball.. that is about as cheap a sport as you will ever find.

But I would like to see MLS start signing kids at 16 and paying them as developmental guys.
a 150K investment in a 16 year old isn't going to always lead to making 5m in return like with Yedlin but it can happen enough to be profitable while also driving soccer forward in this country.
There is no reason we can't follow what baseball has done in Latin America to great result sin this country for Soccer.

Still, the scouts, etc. find talent on travel teams, not in those schoolyards and vacant lots playing soccer.

The mentality has to change from the top - not the bottom. There's nothing wrong with the young talent. It's how that talent is found, developed, and then pushed forward into top tier programs and professional and semi professional organizations.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Mostly MLS players but were woefully inferior to the likes of Belgium and Germany.

And, not for nothing, but all of the best US players either do or have played in Europe...Bradley, Dempsey, Altidore, Yedlin, Green, Jones, and, of course, Howard.

yedlin is a product of MLS . He has never played overseas . And no Bradley was not one of the best players . We was the worse player for USA this Tourney. Besler , Gonzalez , yedlin , beckerman were some of USA 's best players . All career MLS players . You need a mixture . I actually rank Beckerman and Yedlin as the best players for USA this tourney (excluding Howard )

 

[daschoo]

yedlin is a product of MLS . He has never played overseas . And no Bradley was not one of the best players . We was the worse player for USA this Tourney. Besler , Gonzalez , yedlin , beckerman were some of USA 's best players . All career MLS players . You need a mixture . I actually rank Beckerman and Yedlin as the best players for USA this tourney (excluding Howard )

Fabian Johnson in my opinion was head and shoulders above anyone else in your team, including Howard. Until the Germans moved Lahm back from midfield I thought Johnson had been the best right back of the tournament. In saying that when he went off injured and Yedlin came on against the Belgians he also looked really good. Bradley didn't have a great World Cup by any stretch of the imagination but I didn't think he was as bad as some are making out, just most of his work was done off the ball.

 

[Future]

yedlin is a product of MLS . He has never played overseas . And no Bradley was not one of the best players . We was the worse player for USA this Tourney. Besler , Gonzalez , yedlin , beckerman were some of USA 's best players . All career MLS players . You need a mixture . I actually rank Beckerman and Yedlin as the best players for USA this tourney (excluding Howard )

An overstatedly bad 4 games or so does not make a career. Bradley was being asked to do too much. Ws he one of the best in the tourney, probably not, but he is still one of the best US players. Yedlin is heading to somewhere in Italy, most likely, and he's just 21 so his development into hopefully an elite player will take place overseas.

 

[jimmy40]

So my theory is that if we got the 64 starting corners in the NFL and got them to play soccer for the 4 years leading to the next world cup. They would compete and be a force. I think that America failing to be a powerhouse at the world stage had more to do that those who would naturally lean towards soccer in other countries are more likely to become corners or Point guards in the US.

Discuss

Germany doesn't look like they have many NFL cornerbacks playing for them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Germany doesn't look like they have many NFL cornerbacks playing for them.

A bunch of LBs and Strong Safeties. LOL....

 

[jterrell]

In fairness most contracts are 3 or 4 years and if the player doesn't sign a new deal with the club then he is a free agent.

Kind of.
Loyalty bonuses and other weird mechanism's built in maintain the dated system that was in place before the court ruling made players truly free.
Wanted players are extremely more likely to move via purchase or free transfer then free agency.
Messi has been tied to Barca since like age 8.
Ronaldo cost Real like 125 million.
There are no LeBron James' in Euro soccer hitting free agency.
Those players are always sold club to club.
Neymar, Hazard, Bale... et al.

Generally free agents are guys like Ashley Cole that have grown older and require full on pay cuts.
Those guys are not offered contracts so are truly free but are few and far between.

 

[jterrell]

This is completely ignoring the collusion that occurred during the uncapped year




Not true at all. The NBA has a salary max (typically 30% for vets) that is not so flexible

Neither of these are legit points that refute anything I stated.

Owners can collude whether there is a cap or not ... just as they did in the uncapped year.
There are only so many professional football teams and little competition for top players.
Very unlike soccer with many leagues and big teams.

The NBA max per player is 30% of the entire salary cap. Those players make plenty of money.
There is no hard cap and teams can have twice or three times the salary cap in salary.
See the Knicks or Nets.

The NFL has a hard cap but it is enormous.
FIFA's fair play rules limit soccer guys in much the same way as rich clubs can not just hugely outspend others without consequences.