An oddity about Washington

[Mansta54]

Oh, I thought it was just a story about how the Commanders are in the Cowboys' shadow, and none of that extra added mustard that you put on it.

There is no perception to that. The Dallas Cowboys are clearly the better team and better franchise.

 

[Califan007]

Oh, I thought it was just a story about how the Commanders are in the Cowboys' shadow, and none of that extra added mustard that you put on it.

That's why it helps to actually read and understand what you're reading instead of just reacting lol ...

Hostile:

"Since 1960 when the Cowboys came into the league the Commanders have been our punching bag with very few exceptions. It is one of the chief reasons why you hate the Cowboys and denying that would be silly."

Me:

"...you REALLY have zero clue as to what the rival fan bases are thinking, at least when it comes to how they view your team and why."


These two sentences alone should have caused you to see your post to be irrelevant and unnecessary.

There is no perception to that. The Dallas Cowboys are clearly the better team and better franchise.

Better team?...Right now, yes. Better franchise?...Only if you "cherry pick" which years of the Commanders franchise to base that perception on, as well as if you completely discount everything each franchise has brought to the league and accomplished in it. Which is what I expect most Cowboys fans to do, being as arrogant as they are lol ...

 

[casmith07]

That's why it helps to actually read and understand what you're reading instead of just reacting lol ...

Hostile:

"Since 1960 when the Cowboys came into the league the Commanders have been our punching bag with very few exceptions. It is one of the chief reasons why you hate the Cowboys and denying that would be silly."

Me:

"...you REALLY have zero clue as to what the rival fan bases are thinking, at least when it comes to how they view your team and why."


These two sentences alone should have caused you to see your post to be irrelevant and unnecessary.

No, I read it. You were claiming all fans. Hostile was talking just about you. Hostile would be correct, and I would be too.

Better team?...Right now, yes. Better franchise?...Only if you "cherry pick" which years of the Commanders franchise to base that perception on, as well as if you completely discount everything each franchise has brought to the league and accomplished in it. Which is what I expect most Cowboys fans to do, being as arrogant as they are lol ...

Ticket sales, jersey sales, brand recognition...take your pick and look it up. I'm not going to go back and forth about this when it's clear what the approved solution is.

 

[Califan007]

No, I read it. You were claiming all fans. Hostile was talking just about you. Hostile would be correct, and I would be too.

It's even MORE wrong if you're talking about "just me" lol

...And again, there's the Dallas fans' arrogance on display: thinking you can actually tell me what motivates MY own feelings. Jeebus lol...

Ticket sales, jersey sales, brand recognition...take your pick and look it up. I'm not going to go back and forth about this when it's clear what the approved solution is.

Hmm...I'm not sure if you just completely missed my point or if you're purposefully pretending you did.

 

[Hostile]

Before I rip this to shreds, let me say with all respect, you did not disappoint me the way so many weak talking Commanders fans do. Keep that in mind as you read the rest of this.

Only in the minds of delusional Cowboys fans does Dallas "cast a shadow" over ANYthing Commanders related lol. Ok, maybe in the arrogance category, and maybe in the "Overrated Media Darlings" category, but that's about it.

It is amusing to me that the last sentence absolutely validates everything I already claimed. You're upset that we are (in your words) "Overrated Media Darlings." The very fact that it upsets you at all is all the proof needed to dismiss your entire post.

But that isn't my style.

You're the delusional one if you believe for one minute there isn't a shadow. To believe this you would have to be completely oblivious to the entire History of the rivalry. I don't know, maybe you are. If you are just a pup you cannot possibly know enough about your own team to know how wrong you are.

"We want Dallas." Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump. "We want Dallas." Thump, thump, thump, thump, thump.

Does that ring a bell with you? If not then you are a pup and can be forgiven for simply not knowing any better. In the strike shortened 1982 season the Commanders were the best team in the NFC and as they were in the process of securing a place in the NFC Championship game the Commanders fans began to chant that over and over. The thumping was made as they stomped their feet or pounded their hands on something.

It is a chant that is still alive today. Why would it matter who they got? Because it was the Commanders and they live in our shadow and always have. Denying this is simply myopic at best. You see, in the 9 game strike shortened 1982 season the Commanders only lost one game. To the Cowboys.

That chant was not born that day. Oh no, but that day it defined your whole fanbase as much as anything ever had. No, the birth of that chant was George Allen. One of the greatest coaches in your History. Perhaps the greatest Cowboys hater of all time. A man I respect like you can't even fathom.

Why was his passion fueled by beating Dallas? Because he was not a dummy. He came to the Commanders in 1971. Dallas had won 4 consecutive Division crowns. They were the apex, the alpha males, the measuring stick. George Allen, a great man, knew it. You apparently need to learn it.

I can teach you.

For someone who says they "study" their teams and other teams in the division so much, you REALLY have zero clue as to what the rival fan bases are thinking, at least when it comes to how they view your team and why. I guess it's mentally easier to tell yourselves that it's all due to "jealousy", "envy" and other wonderfully inaccurate adjectives along those lines lol...but that line of thinking DOES hint at the biggest reason Commanders fans tend to absolutely hate the Cowboys and their supporters.

I want to remind you of your own words. "Overrated Media Darlings."

Naw, you're not the least bit jealous right? That crap is softer than toilet paper.

I don't know what fanbases think of the Cowboys? Their exact thoughts as in omniscience to your every idea, hell no I don't. The overall, deep down in your gut emotions, you better believe I know all about those feelings.

For example, I know that it drives many of your fans crazy that Dallas secured a football team by buying the rights to your fight song. Clint Murchison once owned your fight song. He also nearly bought the Commanders from G.P. Marshall and was going to move them to Dallas. You think the old time, great Commanders fans don't know these things and remember them?

Boy, don't kid yourself.

Since you're unable to actually fathom what most Skins fans think, I'll clue you and the rest of this board in: the biggest reason we despise the Cowboys the way we do? Your complete and total arrogance, both as a team and as a fan base. It doesn't have squat to do with keeping some kind of running total on who has the better record since 1961

...It's not who has the most NFL Championships since 1961 lol...It's not who has the win/loss advantage in head-to-head competition...it's the absolute arrogance that just surrounds your franchise and your fan base.

Uh, 1960 son. Not 1961. Get your facts straight boy. We've been playing a head to head series since 1961, but the History includes your win in 1960.

Of course we are arrogant. Do you know why? Because we matter. We matter, and that eats at Commanders fans and always has. Look at where you are son. You're in enemy territory trying to tell that enemy that they are insignificant to you and most of your ilk.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Numerous other franchises have had better success over the last 50 years than the Skins, but that doesn't automatically equate to Skins fans disliking either the team or their fans...Hell, the Giants have been pretty damn impressive over the last 30+ years, and the have the hardware to go with it. And Lord knows they've been embarrassing the Commanders over the last 5+ years to a degree that Cowboys fans could only fantasize about...while the Cowboys eek out 3-and-4 point wins against the Skins (when they DO manage to win, that is), the Giants have absolutely destroyed the Skins on a regular basis on all but one or two occasions. But Skins fans, as much as they hate the Giants, don't view them with the same contempt as the Cowboys. Why? Because that team doesn't come with an entire 747's baggage compartment's worth of arrogance.

How dare you bring this weak *** paragraph into an otherwise well thought out post. You ought to be utterly ashamed of yourself for ever writing this and then more ashamed for hitting the submit button. You hate your biggest rival more than you hate the rest of the league. It isn't rocket surgery or brain science kid.

Redeem yourself for that screed.

For most Skins fans, the true moment of hatred against the Cowboys starts when George Allen was our coach. That man LOVED to hate Dallas, and for the very same reasons I just mentioned...he'd point towards Dallas and point out the arrogance of the franchise, players, coaches and fans, and use that as a tool and a weapon for motivation. It didn't matter if half of what he said was inaccurate or not lol...because the other half that WAS accurate was more than enough. And that hatred filtered easily to the fan base, because we were seeing the same things Allen was seeing.

Thank goodness you finally typed in something relevant. Something I pointed out above and which validates my point, not yours.

Do you think the bitterness of the rivalry began with George Allen? Ah hell man, that's so cute. The bitterness began between your owner and ours. The bitterness existed because we took fans from a huge chunk of geographic territory that was largely controlled by the Commanders. The rivalry began before we were ever awarded a franchise and our owner took his fight to congress. Our rivalry began with our owning your fight song.

You think George Allen invented the rivalry? Damn that's cute. Naive, but damned cute.

Think I'm wrong?...Please. Just using common sense and logic would dictate that the fans back during Allen's time that were hating the Cowboys with a laser-like intensity were NOT hating them due to some perceived "shadow" they felt they were living under. Yeah, right, only the arrogance of a delusional Cowboys fan would think that the 4-decades of franchise history and success up until the 70's would be overshadowed by Dallas' 10 years in the division lol

...No, it's not some nickel-sized "shadow" that makes us Commanders fans despise your team and alot of your fanbase...it's the gawd-awful stench of arrogance that you emit.

Of course I think you are wrong. Maybe it's because you are wrong. By the time George Allen was hired you had lost 6 games in a row to the Cowboys. The Cowboys won the NFL Capital division all three years it was in existence. They won the inaugural NFC East crown for 4 in a row. By the time George Allen arrived the Cowboys already held a 12-7-2 record against the Skins.

By the time George Allen arrived we had already played for the right to go to 3 Super Bowls and we had been to one and probably should have won it. By the time George Allen arrived we were the Super Bowl favorites for 1971.

Not in our shadow? It was everywhere, fueled by our arrogance. It was wonderful.

Afterall, there is a reason Forbes just recently conducted a poll that listed Jerruh Jones as one of the 10-most disliked figures in all of sports while Daniel Snyder was nowhere to be found on that list...and it's NOT because the magazine only asked Commanders fans lol . It's because Jones epidomizes the arrogance that numerous other sports fans see the Cowboys as embracing. An unearned and unwarranted arrogance.

I care that Jerry Jones is hated by other people? You had been doing so good, then this limp wristed junk.

Here's an example of what I mean (something I've seen happen waaay too much): Your average Dallas fan will say that it's 5 Super Bowl wins is what Skins fan "envy" and why Skins fans hate the Cowboys...when a Skins fan points out that the Commanders also have 5 league championships in their franchise's history, that same Cowboys fan will dismiss those earlier championships as being "before the Super Bowl era". Yep, just like a Dallas fan to arrogantly dismiss anything that occurred in the league before their arrival lol...You may want to pretend otherwise (or may actually have convinced yourself otherwise), but it's the arrogance of your team and its fans that push Dallas over from mere "Hated Rival" status into full-blown loathing.

I am sorry that the Super Bowl era matters more. I really am. It isn't just Dallas fans who feel that way, but we do push the envelope with it. You won 2 Championships when we were not even in the NFL. You won 2 Championships when there was no tournament, just one game and done. You're right, those are as impressive as a tournament to get to the ultimate Championship.

Did you know that at one time the NFL Championship wasn't even disputed with a game. It was simply awarded to the winningest franchise that season. So I am sorry that the NFL Championship carries less weight than a Super Bowl win. I am sorry that many Cowboys fans remind you that you won 2 of your Super Bowls in strike shortened seasons. I apologize.

Did you know that the Houston Oilers won the first 2 AFL Championships? Did you know they lost the 3rd to the Dallas Texans who are now the Chiefs? Then the Chargers in 1963, finally the Bills in 1964, and 1965. The Bills don't claim to be 2 time Champions, even though they won 2 AFL Championships. Nor the other AFL teams theirs. Kansas City crows about winning Super Bowl IV, but not it's 2 AFL Championships.

Translation, the Super Bowl matters more. Denying that is merely pathetic and sad. I promise you I would feel the same if we still hadn't won one.

And here's another aspect that fuels your average Commanders' fan's hatred towards the Cowboys...the types of players both teams have had over the decades. Back during the 70's George Allen put together the "Over The Hill Gang", and turned out some damn good teams with a bunch of cast-offs and players deemed too old to contribute anything worthwhile...and Commanders fans fell in love with their no-name, blue-collar workers, ones who believed in and followed a coach who emphasized that "40 men together can't lose!"...By contrast, we saw in Dallas a team that seemed more comprised of individual stars than "40 men working together". Again, whether or not that was accurate is irrelevant...because that vision of individual "household name" type players constrasted significantly with the no-name cast-offs that filled in 95% of the Skins roster. And Allen played on that vision and image like a **'er lol...used it to his and his team's advantage...and with the arrogance leaking from your team it was a forceful combo that fueled an already existing hatred due to being division rivals.

Oh, I pity the thought processes that produced this tripe. It takes a certain kind of absolute ignorance to sit there, claim to know football, and think for one minute Dallas was able to put together 20 straight winning years and 5 trips to the Super Bowl with smoke and mirrors.

Newsflash, the Cowboys teams were good. Real good. They won because of it. They dominated the NFC East because they were a unified, well oiled machine. To think otherwise is just a total waste of thought.

Winning teams play together. That is just juvenile jealousy run amok.

Oh, and while you are smarting from the paddling, you might want to look up some things about our sexy players. Cliff Harris, Charlie Waters, Drew Pearson, and a host of others who were stars who regularly destroyed the Commanders were not drafted. Cornell Green was a basketball player. Rayfield Wright too. We are the only NFL team that did not get to Draft players to build our very first team. We had to make trades for castoffs, like Eddie LeBaron from the Commanders. Please don't sit there and try to tell me that Commanders fans were not furious that he wanted to play for us, but wanted to retire and be a petroleum lawyer rather than play in Washington.

I know better.

Oh, and as for being led by a 7 let me rub one more sore spot. Clint Longley was hardly a sexy player and he beat you in one of the greatest come from behinds in our rivalry.

You know what makes our players sexy? Success.

Fact.

The Skins' history over the past 40 years has been full of those types of players...bloodied, broken-nosed, lunchpail types of players nobody ever heard of that seemed to succeed wih the Commanders to a level that they had not done anywhere else. We're the only team that actually had an organized cheering section for the offensive linemen, for pete's sake lol

...and NOT because it was full of 1st round marketable "name" players. And it wasn't even because they were so dominant. It was because we knew these guys did more than just help the Commanders dominate the 80s...they also represented what we absolutely LOVED about our team...that we constantly had unreconizable "no-names" that do all the dirty, unglamorous work and help the team keep winning and winning. You guys had players with nicknames like "Hollywood", we had guys with nicknames like "Diesel" and "Hogs". To most Skins fans, the Cowboys had "sexy" players...the Commanders had "average joe" players. The contrast couldn't have been more obvious if it were actually done so purposefully.

Just for clarification, none of this is envy, jealousy, or being in our shadow?

That's funny right there. I don't care who you are, that's funny.

That's like a neurotic person screaming from the psychiatrists couch about how he doesn't need anyone's help and then asking when the next appointment is.

Back after the Skins went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl, Matt Millen said that that Skins team had more "7's" on the team than any team he had ever been on or seen. His point? That while most successful teams have future HOF'ers on the roster to help fuel their success, the Skins had a bunch of average to slightly above-average guys making up their team...and they were succeeding brilliantly with them.

Congrats on the next season when you went 9-7, and the next when you went 4-12, and the next where you went 3-13, and the next when you went 6-10.

You must be thrilled with those 7s.

I am thrilled with my 9s that won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and 5 straight NFC East crowns. Call me arrogant for it. I live for that.

THAT is what most Skins fans have loved about their team year after year...and it's just 180 degree opposite of the arrogant "star-driven" roster of the Cowboys. Skins fans saw their team win with players nobody else could win with...while in the Cowboys they saw a roster than anyone could win with. Heck, Jerruh said so himself lol...

At least you admit we were better. That's a start.

If you want me to believe you wouldn't trade places I'm afraid I won't buy that for one minute. I've seen your fanbase's almost yearly frothing at the mouth to sign big name Free Agents and buy a Super Bowl. Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Albert Haynesworth, and company laugh at your paltry claim that you just want blue collar guys and don't care about winning. Hell you once made Adam Archuleta the highest paid Safety in the NFL. Please don't try and sell me this weak koolaid about how proud you are of your 7s. It's insulting to my intelligence. I simply know better.

You're going to sit there and tell me you are sad Jason Campbell is gone? He was the epitome of a 7.

We love our history of overachievers, and champion them.

I commend you for that. It is the delusions spawned by the excuses made for failure after failure than amuse me.

It's one HUGE reason why so many Skins fans (much as you may want to think otherwise) despise Snyder's approach towards obtaining players over the last 10 years...we do NOT want to become a team full of "name" players. It's a HUGE reason why we despised the idea of Deion Sanders being added to the team...he abso-freakin-lutely symbolized the arrogance and "sexy" household name player that we always used to associate with the Cowboys. His talent level was irrelevant...we just did not want to become some nauseating version of the Cowboys. While free agency has unfortunately made acquiring an occasional "star" players pretty mucn unavoidable, we still feared losing our identity as a team and franchise, and worse looking like the pathetic Cowboys. For most Skins fans that would be worse than losing. I know you're gonna swear that's not the case, but if you actually surrounded yourself with Skins fans on a daily basis and talked with them about the team, you'd see just how accurate my portrayal is...because believe me, I do surround myself with Commanders fan on a daily basis and talk with them...and happily so lol...

Oh my gosh. You did not sit there and just claim Commanders fans wanted to revolt when you got Deion and other players of his ilk. That is the essence of revisionist History kid.

So, yeah, you just keep throwing out all the stats you can look up and make the claim that us Skins fans are merely jealous of having to "live in the shadow" of the Cowboys lol...but just remember the old saying "Stats don't tell the whole story". By denying everything else, all it does it continue proving that the arrogance we detect from your franchise and your fan base is alive and well, and our utter hatred of everything Dallas-connected should continue to be alive and well, too. You may "study" the Commanders' history...but I lived through it. And considering how you also said you "study" the Cowboys and "knew" that nobody picked the Cowboys to go to the Super Bowl in 2006 or 2007, you might need to go to take a few night courses when it comes to both the Commanders and their fans lol ...

I will keep throwing out the stats that back me up and refute your claims.

You love your team. I never suspected otherwise. But if you expect me to believe you wouldn't like to be the first team to 7 Super Bowls and you wouldn't like to rub Cowboys fans faces in your success then you are either deluded or one hell of a piss poor liar.

You tell me which it is, but I wouldn't be proud of either label.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Is that the title of the thread? lol...

No, the title is an indictment that your organization runs itself into the ground by continually selling off premium draft picks for marginal players thereby further exacerbating their decline by having abdicated the picks they'd need to fill the holes they created.

Or, Skins Suck.

 

[Zaxor]

How about this for arrogance....

Your team doesn't matter... nor does any other team matter in the nfl...it is only about the Dallas Cowboys...the seasons are divided into those years that the Cowboys won the superbowl and the other seasons...which by the way don't matter because the Cowboys didn't win.

I find it amusing to no end that other "teams" take the time to even hate the Cowboys...As a Cowboy fan I don't even take the time to take notice of all the other franchises let alone hate them...they just "are"...

is that arrogant enough

 

[BourbonBalz]

5 of the last 7 games between the Cowboys and the Commanders were won by 5 points or less, with the other two games being won by each team by a wide margin. 3 of the last 4 games have been won by 4 points or less...even with Zorn, Campbell and Vinny at the helm the Cowboys could only eek out their wins by the barest of margins. And overall the two teams have split their last 10 games, each beating the other 5 times.

So, you see, it doesn't matter to me how you describe the Commanders lol...because there's nothing in the results over the past 5 years that warrants the dismissive attitude you're displaying. But I do love some good ol' smack talk between Cowboys and Commanders fans...I grew up at a time when the hatred between our fan bases was truly intense, and was in person...so I respect the grief we give each other lol *thumbsup*

This is hilarious. Look at our record over the past five seasons and compare it to the Foreskins' record over that time period and get back with me. :laugh2:

 

[BourbonBalz]

Did I say Commanders fans had a reason to be cocky? lol...No. What I did say, though, was that Cowboys fans seem to have grown cockier after their one wildcard win...their only postseason win in 12 years.

If you DO want a category where the Skins come out on top, though, then I'd choose "Playoff Victories Over The Past 12 Years" for $100, Alex.

Last 12 years? LOL. Now that's a bit of a random # isn't it? Well, no it isn't because it fits your agenda. Why not the past 15 or 20 years? That makes a lot more sense, but then again, it would completely destroy your argument.

 

[BourbonBalz]

In other words, you can't show me any posts because no Skins fans have been saying how "great" the team will be this year lol...Just own up to it, you'll feel a lot better.

Although kudos to your approach: make a baseless claim, then say that you don't have to prove your claim is true, and tell anyone who disagrees with your claim to go out and prove that it didn't happen, which is proving a negative (which is impossible to do).

You want delusional posts? Just visit ExtremeForeskins and look up TR1 and the idiots that root him on. No Skin fans on earth should say ANYTHING about what a Dallas fan posts on a Dallas board in a negative light considering what is posted on that cesspool ran by Foreskin fans.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I said something very similar on Extremeskins...that the reality is neither the Cowboys or the Commanders have actually accomplished much at all since the mid-90s...and the race is on to see which team can make it to the Super Bowl first. THAT team's fans will have bragging rights, but neither team has given it's fan base miuch to gloat over in the last 15 years.

And I'm looking forward to the matchups this year as well...

Neither team has produced a Super Bowl appearance and neither has been stellar by any means. However, compare the two team's overall and head to head records during that time and see who comes out on top. We have won 2 of the last 3 NFC East titles. Our cumulative record over the past five years? 51-29. What's yours? LOL

 

[BourbonBalz]

"Afterall, there is a reason Forbes just recently conducted a poll that listed Jerruh Jones as one of the 10-most disliked figures in all of sports while Daniel Snyder was nowhere to be found on that list..."

The reason Snyder isn't on the list is because he's totally and completely irrelevant. He has never won ANYTHING. JJ has THREE titles and has had tons of success both on and off the field. The only thing Snyder has succeeded at is giving away his money to garbage players (currently that would be Haynesworth ).

 

[BourbonBalz]

Well, you're going to have to enlighten all of us on what tells the "whole story", then, because the NFL hasn't ever handed out a trophy for style points (which you'd still lose to us) in 90 years of operation.

I find it funny in his long rant that somehow the way the Foreskins won their titles as opposed to how we won our titles seems to make them more valuable to Foreskin fans. I guess ours don't count simply because we had some of the most dominating teams in NFL history when we won our Super Bowls. How dare we!!!! Well, they've got to manufacture something to keep them warm at night and the ole Cowboy monsters out of their nightmares.

 

[Ren]

You're not winning the perception battle, you DO realize that, right? lol

Since you DO spend a lot more time here than I do and since you DO say Skins fans are once again over here claiming that their team will be "great" this season, can you at least point me to a thread I can read that contains such posts? lol...It can't be that hard.

Your a Commanders fan trolling a Cowboys site and you think you're winning it?

:laugh2:

You're crying about our arrogance on one hand and demanding we jump through hoops for you on the other, who's delusional here?
You're fully capable of reading this site on your own i suggest you do before you start telling people what's on it