An optimistic view of the Defensive Line

[AsthmaField]

Why settle for Crawford when you can have Poe or the guy from the Panthters.

There is no way Dallas signs Poe, even if KC decides to let him go. First off Marinelli doesn't want big, huge guys at DT. Not even at the 1-tech spot.

Secondly, Dallas isn't going to spend big dollars on a free agent 1-tech for this defense. That position just isn't going to make much of an impact in this defense. They don't want to spend big on a free agent DE or CB. They certainly aren't going to do so on a 1-tech DT.

Finally, the DT position isn't that bad and stopping the run wasn't an issue for the team (which is primarily what you'd sign Poe for).

It wouldn't be smart at all to spend big on Poe. Frankly, I'm not really sure why you want them to.

Short is going to be franchised if the Panthers can't reach a long term deal with him (but they will). He is going nowhere.

At least he would be a good fit for Marinelli's defense and I understand why you'd like to sign him. However, he isn't going to be available, so I'm not sure how you could be upset with the team for not signing him. It will be impossible to do.

DLaw's back made him a non-factor

Tapper has never played a down.

On those two things, I agree with you. I'm not counting on either for much of anything.

 

[AsthmaField]

Where does he [Irving] play, LDE or DT? If DT, then does Collins play 1-tech and Irving play 3-tech?

I'd play Irving at LDE in a rotation (competition) with Lawrence (assuming they get a starting RDE somewhere), and I'd put Collins right where he belongs at the 3T. Then, on passing downs I'd put Irving at the 3T and move Collins to the 1T. I'd also probably put whatever starting RDE they get over at LDE and bring in Mayowa for the RDE spot.

Of course there would be many different combinations of that group depending on down, distance and time left in the game... but that would be generally what I'd be trying to do. We all know Marinelli is big on a rotation and likes to keep guys fresh.

 

[xwalker]

I'd play Irving at LDE in a rotation (competition) with Lawrence (assuming they get a starting RDE somewhere), and I'd put Collins right where he belongs at the 3T. Then, on passing downs I'd put Irving at the 3T and move Collins to the 1T. I'd also probably put whatever starting RDE they get over at LDE and bring in Mayowa for the RDE spot.

Of course there would be many different combinations of that group depending on down, distance and time left in the game... but that would be generally what I'd be trying to do. We all know Marinelli is big on a rotation and likes to keep guys fresh.

Yes, I could see starting Irving at LDE with DLaw rotating in with him. That might help keep DLaw healthy. Then in obvious passing situations, Irving and Collins could be the DTs.

In obviously passing situations, both DTs often play as 3-techs anyway (both on outside shoulder of Guards with big gap in the middle of the line).


The other situation where they like to use Irving is in the 3-man DL (the 3- 2 alignment). They have Irving at NT and he had some pass rushing success there IIRC, that the position he was playing when the famous hold by the Packers OL happened.

The issues:
Where does T.Crawford play? Is he the backup 3-tech?

If they don't re-sign McClain, does Thorton start at 1-tech with Collin at 3-tech and T.Crawford as a backup?

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I watched every game.
If you are talking about Irving, he flashed a couple times but did not played consistently.
Rodgers could light his victory cigar in the backfield with our DL.

Guess so when his OL was holding players........2 OL holding 1 of our players.

Again I'm not saying this is a great DL but you are wrong about no player demanded a double team(now you want to change it to consistently). This is a very young DL and we will add talent to it this year. The arrow is only pointing up

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Yes, I could see starting Irving at LDE with DLaw rotating in with him. That might help keep DLaw healthy. Then in obvious passing situations, Irving and Collins could be the DTs.

In obviously passing situations, both DTs often play as 3-techs anyway (both on outside shoulder of Guards with big gap in the middle of the line).


The other situation where they like to use Irving is in the 3-man DL (the 3- 2 alignment). They have Irving at NT and he had some pass rushing success there IIRC, that the position he was playing when the famous hold by the Packers OL happened.

The issues:
Where does T.Crawford play? Is he the backup 3-tech?

If they don't re-sign McClain, does Thorton start at 1-tech with Collin at 3-tech and T.Crawford as a backup?

Seems like Crawford is getting outplayed right now. Can Irving be a every down player or does he need to come in as a specialist? I think we need to add DE's and DT's this offseason then let it play out in training camp.

Number 1 is a RE (in my opinion a veteran even if it's the only trade or free agent signing we can get)

 

[waldoputty]

There is no way Dallas signs Poe, even if KC decides to let him go. First off Marinelli doesn't want big, huge guys at DT. Not even at the 1-tech spot.

Secondly, Dallas isn't going to spend big dollars on a free agent 1-tech for this defense. That position just isn't going to make much of an impact in this defense. They don't want to spend big on a free agent DE or CB. They certainly aren't going to do so on a 1-tech DT.

Finally, the DT position isn't that bad and stopping the run wasn't an issue for the team (which is primarily what you'd sign Poe for).

It wouldn't be smart at all to spend big on Poe. Frankly, I'm not really sure why you want them to.

Short is going to be franchised if the Panthers can't reach a long term deal with him (but they will). He is going nowhere.

At least he would be a good fit for Marinelli's defense and I understand why you'd like to sign him. However, he isn't going to be available, so I'm not sure how you could be upset with the team for not signing him. It will be impossible to do.



On those two things, I agree with you. I'm not counting on either for much of anything.

There needs to be 2 major additions to the front-7 not counting Jaylon.
If you cannot land enough DEs and you dont want Poe and Short is franchised, there is still Fairley who is an upgrade from Crawford.

 

[xwalker]

Seems like Crawford is getting outplayed right now. Can Irving be a every down player or does he need to come in as a specialist? I think we need to add DE's and DT's this offseason then let it play out in training camp.

Number 1 is a RE (in my opinion a veteran even if it's the only trade or free agent signing we can get)

T.Crawford had another shoulder injury. He had right shoulder surgery after the 2015 season and left shoulder surgery after the 2016 season. Also, they moved him from DT to DE after the start of the season. He prefers to know which position he will play because he trains to play at a lighter weight if DE or a heavier weight if DT. It's possible he could be better.

Irving can definitely be an every down player at either DE or DT.

If they can find a legit high quality RDE, then eveything else will work itself out.

 

[xwalker]

There needs to be 2 major additions to the front-7 not counting Jaylon.
If you cannot land enough DEs and you dont want Poe and Short is franchised, there is still Fairley who is an upgrade from Crawford.

Fairley is an interesting name.

He had 6 sacks in 2016. He played primarily as a 3-tech in the games I saw. He would want to start, so either he or Collins would need to play some 1-tech.

 

[AsthmaField]

There needs to be 2 major additions to the front-7 not counting Jaylon.
If you cannot land enough DEs and you dont want Poe and Short is franchised, there is still Fairley who is an upgrade from Crawford.

I wouldn't mind Fairley at all (assuming he isn't priced crazy). I think Marinelli could do a lot with him actually, and I like his nasty streak.

I'm all for upgrading the DL via free agency but it's gotta be the right guy(s) and they have to fit the criteria the team has (relative youth, RKG, not hugely expensive).

The problem that I see is who will be available. All of the truly good/great players are going to be signed or franchised (like Short) and the couple that might be available will have a hard time fitting in with what the team wants.

Here's hoping they make both of us happy though.

 

[gmoney112]

Irving will get plenty of snaps at DE and DT. DT more pass rushing down/distances, his quickness and length up the middle is fun to watch.

Collins is the starting 3-tech, Irving will be the other 3-tech on passing downs.

Crawford is hard to place. I don't know if his position is going to affect his weight that much. He just needs to rehab, and get bigger and stronger. I think he'll compete with Collins for the starting 3-tech job. I hope we don't feel the need to play him at DE too much because i'm hoping we'll have guys there, but he'll probably still have value at DE against against the run. I imagine him and Collins will both get plenty of snaps at DT and I wouldn't be surprised to see Crawford taking snaps at DE on run downs early in games.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I think everyone agrees that one of the areas that needs upgrading is the defensive line but I would like to offer an optimistic view of what to expect in 2017.

Mayowa - led the team in sacks. Is still young and could continue to get better. Maybe he could get 8 sacks this year on a part time basis. That would be pretty good.

Demarcus Lawrence - has been suspended, injured and partially ineffective but this could be the year he shows something. It is a contract year after all and he could go from an afterthought to a guy that earns a big pay check in one year. I expect to see the best DLAW we have seen so far.

David Irving - flashed a couple of times and was downright dominant in a couple of games. He may be just scratching the surface and could take another leap forward this year. He also could be in line for a big pay day if he does continue to improve.

Randy Gregory - He will miss most of the season but if he can avoid trouble he will be added to the roster when we need him the most. Late in the year for playoff push and play offs. He needs to stay motivated and in shape and obviously avoid trouble but he could be a late season addition right when we need a boost the most.

Jack Crawford - I don't know if he will be re-signed but if he is this could be the year he starts to put it all together. He has the traits and has shown ability in limited capacity. Now is the time for him to step it up.

Tyrone Crawford - Injured and moved around quite a bit. He did apply a decent amount of pressure though even if his sack total was disappointing. If we can keep him at DT and he can stay healthy, this might be the year where he earns his bloated contract. Otherwise he could end up a June 1st cut next offseason.

Collins - had a decent rookie year and could make strides this year as well. He looks like a nice player and maybe he can become more than that.

Thornton - a little disappointing this year but has had a full year in his new surroundings and could take a leap forward.

Terrell Mcclain - If he is re-signed could continue to improve. He had by far his best year since being here and stayed healthy most of the year for the first time.

This is without considering contributions made by new additions. I think it is highly doubtful we don't see a couple of new pieces added. Even if it's not a first rd pick or a major FA acquisition there will be some talent added to the roster for the DL.

With a couple of breaks the D line could go from a weakness to a strength very easily.

One player not mentioned yet...Tapper.

Don't discount him making an impact.

 

[waldoputty]

You are bit Pollyanish on Free Agents.........their success rate is low

Poe or Short have nothing to do with TCrawford......they would replace Thornton or TMcClain ...the irrational piling on TCrawford around here is ridiculous

Tapper had a great camp....that was real
DLawrence will get healthy or he will be gone but he is good when healthy

We reached 15th in sacks with all these bums playing out of place.....I see improvement just from positioning and health.... Still add a FA SDE and draft a DE and DT

TCrawford plays 3 and LDE. Short and Fairley play the 3.
TCrawford has recurring shoulder injury and other issues - he has not played up to his contract.
Would you rather have Fairley or TCrawford?
Or a real LDE or TCrawford?
DLaw has a back issue - back issues are serious problems that make me even worry about TSmith long term
Tapper had a great camp - that is it.
Do you want to risk 1 year in a window because a guy had a great camp?
We received 15th in sacks but yet I think we all remember Aaron Rodgers lighting the D up?
This DL is not built for serious games, it is built to ride on the coattails of the O.

If we spent a ~$5 million per year per player more on a couple DL players instead of TCrawford and Thornton, we may have won it all last year.
now we are stuck with players with dead monies (TCraw) that are painful to get rid of.

We have the $ and you agree on that.
Why take any risks when you can simply buy the DLs assuming they are available.
Even if it is 1 DE and Ingram or 1DE and 1DT - as long as both demand double teams, the D would be ready for the playoffs assuming we sign the other positions reasonably.

Look at what the Giants did - we should aspire to do that.
3 Premium FAs with 2 preferably on the DL - and we will be in the superbowl
You stay with the TCrawfords of the world, we are wasting Zeke/Dez's primes.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

T.Crawford had another shoulder injury. He had right shoulder surgery after the 2015 season and left shoulder surgery after the 2016 season. Also, they moved him from DT to DE after the start of the season. He prefers to know which position he will play because he trains to play at a lighter weight if DE or a heavier weight if DT. It's possible he could be better.

Irving can definitely be an every down player at either DE or DT.

If they can find a legit high quality RDE, then eveything else will work itself out.

I agree with that

 

[Alexander]

One player not mentioned yet...Tapper.

Don't discount him making an impact.

If his spine and "the nerve" were whole, we would think a little differently about this defense.

 

[xwalker]

One player not mentioned yet...Tapper.

Don't discount him making an impact.

I think that is Chaz Green.

They both had #79 in the preseason.

 

[waldoputty]

Irving will get plenty of snaps at DE and DT. DT more pass rushing down/distances, his quickness and length up the middle is fun to watch.

Collins is the starting 3-tech, Irving will be the other 3-tech on passing downs.

Crawford is hard to place. I don't know if his position is going to affect his weight that much. He just needs to rehab, and get bigger and stronger. I think he'll compete with Collins for the starting 3-tech job. I hope we don't feel the need to play him at DE too much because i'm hoping we'll have guys there, but he'll probably still have value at DE against against the run. I imagine him and Collins will both get plenty of snaps at DT and I wouldn't be surprised to see Crawford taking snaps at DE on run downs early in games.

sorry, this is which year for crawford? he is probably what he is...

 

[waldoputty]

If his spine and "the nerve" were whole, we would think a little differently about this defense.

even if he does play well, we certainly cannot count on it building the team
as much as i think jaylon is recovery, you cannot count on him at this point either, not when you are in your championship window.
with all $ available, it would be utterly silly

 

[big dog cowboy]

If his spine and "the nerve" were whole, we would think a little differently about this defense.

OTA's should yield answers on both.

 

[waldoputty]

OTA's should yield answers on both.

The problem is that we cannot count on Tapper or even Jaylon when we make draft decisions and FA decisions.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The problem is that we cannot count on Tapper or even Jaylon when we make draft decisions and FA decisions.

The Cowboys are past that point on both. They are counting on each to be at full strength when training camp opens. FA and draft plans will be made with that in mind.