An optimistic view of the Defensive Line

[waldoputty]

Unfortunately dallas is still a few years away. They've missed on too many defensive picks over the last 5 years. Going to take another 2 or 3 years to build through the draft.

not if you sign 2 FA DL and a CB
say JPP, Melvin Ingram and a CB1 who is not injury prone?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

yes, what we need is depth - in players that consistently demand double teams.
we have 0.
we have a bunch of JAGs.
Collins and Irving have some potential but not what you gamble a year of your championship window with.
tcrawford - does anyone think he will get better - how many years has it been?
it was a calculated gamble that did not work out for us - it happens, you cannot win them all - problem is his cap structure.
if we spent $5M more per yr per player when we signed tcrawford and thornton, we could have gotten 2 players that would consistently demand double-team.
now, we have mostly rotational guys.

gregory is not likely to ever play again unless the weed policy changes.
does anyone think he can stay clean for 1 year???
dlaw had a back problem the entire year - does anyone think that is going to get better?

that is why rodgers had a lawn party at our expense

for the millionth time, there is plenty of cap space.
demand better from the FO
DONT SETTLE FOR EXCUSES BECAUSE THERE IS PLENTY OF CAP SPACE

Wasting cap space is still a bad move, no matter how much you have.

My issue with Free Agency isn't the money as much as it is the length of the contracts. That's why you don't see Belichick spend a ton of money on FA's unless he can get them on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Crawford was excellent in 2013 and 2014 and did demand double teams. Problem was that he got injured in 2015 (basically playing with 1 arm) and moved to DE this year which is completely out of position for him. And he had to play out of position because we had no depth at DE.

That's the problem with the Cowboys in general...it's not about finding talent. We find plenty of talent. For all of the remarks about how bad of a GM Jerry Jones is, he still has the highest % of picks that go to the Pro Bowl.

The issue is we end up doing a terrible job of meshing the talent together and we take a player like Crawford who played like a Pro Bowler in 2013 and 2014 and end up moving him out of position.

Why?

Because we lack depth.

And we lack depth because we trade away picks and put too many eggs in certain players' baskets.



YR

 

[waldoputty]

Wasting cap space is still a bad move, no matter how much you have.

My issue with Free Agency isn't the money as much as it is the length of the contracts. That's why you don't see Belichick spend a ton of money on FA's unless he can get them on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Crawford was excellent in 2013 and 2014 and did demand double teams. Problem was that he got injured in 2015 (basically playing with 1 arm) and moved to DE this year which is completely out of position for him. And he had to play out of position because we had no depth at DE.

That's the problem with the Cowboys in general...it's not about finding talent. We find plenty of talent. For all of the remarks about how bad of a GM Jerry Jones is, he still has the highest % of picks that go to the Pro Bowl.

The issue is we end up doing a terrible job of meshing the talent together and we take a player like Crawford who played like a Pro Bowler in 2013 and 2014 and end up moving him out of position.

Why?

Because we lack depth.

And we lack depth because we trade away picks and put too many eggs in certain players' baskets.



YR

90% of our talent are in the O - that is why the O is so good.

We had to live in this cap space mentality in the last 20 years - the cap has changed during to the new TV contract.

We need to adapt to it.

Patriots' way was the smart way for operating in the old environment.
Their way is far from optimal in the new environment.
They should easily have lost the superbowl if not for Atlanta's unprecedented massive choke.
If you are new england, would you rather have spend $20M more in the cap and win the superbowl or save the $20M and lose the superbowl - especially when you were ~$50M under the cap to start with?

 

[stilltheguru88]

why stop at JPP, get 2 more. we have the $ for it.

Lol stop it.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Wasting cap space is still a bad move, no matter how much you have.

My issue with Free Agency isn't the money as much as it is the length of the contracts. That's why you don't see Belichick spend a ton of money on FA's unless he can get them on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Crawford was excellent in 2013 and 2014 and did demand double teams. Problem was that he got injured in 2015 (basically playing with 1 arm) and moved to DE this year which is completely out of position for him. And he had to play out of position because we had no depth at DE.

That's the problem with the Cowboys in general...it's not about finding talent. We find plenty of talent. For all of the remarks about how bad of a GM Jerry Jones is, he still has the highest % of picks that go to the Pro Bowl.

The issue is we end up doing a terrible job of meshing the talent together and we take a player like Crawford who played like a Pro Bowler in 2013 and 2014 and end up moving him out of position.

Why?

Because we lack depth.

And we lack depth because we trade away picks and put too many eggs in certain players' baskets.



YR

So our 3 techs should be Collins and Crawford next year?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

So our 3 techs should be Collins and Crawford next year?

Depends on what we do between now and September. Collins can play both 1 and 3 tech. Crawford should only be a 3 tech unless you're expecting the run and then you can move him out to DE for a few plays here and there.

I'm willing to give Tyrone Crawford another year, provided he's not injured and he's playing the 3-tech. Jack Crawford is a waste of space.




YR

 

[Verdict]

Crawford and McClain are prob getting resigned. We'll draft two new dline guys to get a solid ten man rotation. Last year we only really had a 9 man rotation.

I am not opposed to McClain being resigned if that is the directions we go, but J. Crawford is just a guy to fill a roster spot.

 

[waldoputty]

I am not opposed to McClain being resigned if that is the directions we go, but J. Crawford is just a guy to fill a roster spot.

he was only resigned last year when we failed to sign a better option - if my recollection serves me well...

 

[Typhus]

Without naming names, just out of curiosity, for those in this thread in favor of replacing one of our DL with an available FA DL, just who would that be.

 

[Bullflop]

I think the DL will be marginally better in 2017. Some of our young "rushmen" will improve through added experience. A rookie DE would probably require time to develop sufficiently to contribute significantly better than what he'd likely do in year one. I don't see a vet FA being added this year, with the pickings being fairly meager and the FO looking to the draft to improve. I'd like to see someone like Jamaal Sheard come to Dallas but it's probably something of a longshot.

 

[Verdict]

I really think Tapper and Jaylon can help this defense improve by themselves.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

There is always positives in everything. The best thing going for this DL is they are very young and will only get better. I do agree we need to add some more talent but by no means is this DL "no optimistic" like you say

This.

No one on this d-line has proven (beyond a shadow of a doubt) they are a cornerstone/key-piece player. There are several young guys who have flashed potential (Irving, Collins, Mayowa) so there is definitely room for optimism.

They still need to add more talent, though, via the draft.

 

[Dalmations202]

There is no way Dallas signs Poe, even if KC decides to let him go. First off Marinelli doesn't want big, huge guys at DT. Not even at the 1-tech spot.

Secondly, Dallas isn't going to spend big dollars on a free agent 1-tech for this defense. That position just isn't going to make much of an impact in this defense. They don't want to spend big on a free agent DE or CB. They certainly aren't going to do so on a 1-tech DT.

Finally, the DT position isn't that bad and stopping the run wasn't an issue for the team (which is primarily what you'd sign Poe for).

It wouldn't be smart at all to spend big on Poe. Frankly, I'm not really sure why you want them to.

.<snip>

You may be very correct in that Marinelli may not want Poe, but I have to disagree with the value.
Poe is very big and very quick for his size. Poe DEMANDS a double team and even FredBeard had issues with him.

Poe would make a huge impact on the defense IMO, because he would DEMAND that double team allowing for the Collins, Crawfords and DE's to be singled and still get a push so the QB can't step up in the pocket.

When NE had the great defense -- who anchored the line for them? Vince Wilfolk -- a huge, quick 400lb beast.

I guess I will just agree to disagree with Marinelli and some others here. I still think you build the lines first and start with the middle. I still think a dominating 1T will be the key to a dominating defense even if he doesn't have the sack numbers, he just allows for the other DL to get the sacks by tying up multiple blockers.

I have seen it done several ways over the years with quickness and with power. In the end, it doesn't seem to matter which you utilize as long as the guy can dominate. Size does seem to help when everyone is tired though.

 

[visionary]

Depends on what we do between now and September. Collins can play both 1 and 3 tech. Crawford should only be a 3 tech unless you're expecting the run and then you can move him out to DE for a few plays here and there.

I'm willing to give Tyrone Crawford another year, provided he's not injured and he's playing the 3-tech. Jack Crawford is a waste of space.




YR

Or let Collins play at 3T and put pressure on the QB and get a real 1T

Crazy thought, I know

 

[visionary]

You may be very correct in that Marinelli may not want Poe, but I have to disagree with the value.
Poe is very big and very quick for his size. Poe DEMANDS a double team and even FredBeard had issues with him.

Poe would make a huge impact on the defense IMO, because he would DEMAND that double team allowing for the Collins, Crawfords and DE's to be singled and still get a push so the QB can't step up in the pocket.

When NE had the great defense -- who anchored the line for them? Vince Wilfolk -- a huge, quick 400lb beast.

I guess I will just agree to disagree with Marinelli and some others here. I still think you build the lines first and start with the middle. I still think a dominating 1T will be the key to a dominating defense even if he doesn't have the sack numbers, he just allows for the other DL to get the sacks by tying up multiple blockers.

I have seen it done several ways over the years with quickness and with power. In the end, it doesn't seem to matter which you utilize as long as the guy can dominate. Size does seem to help when everyone is tired though.

I'd sign Poe in a heart beat

 

[KJJ]

We need to take the same approach to rebuilding the DL like we did with the OL. We need to find a relentless edge rusher and a big, nasty DT who can push the pocket and create some havoc up front.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

Kansas City's run defense was crap last year. Poe isn't the force that he should be at that size/speed.

 

[Howboutdemcowboys31]

I think everyone agrees that one of the areas that needs upgrading is the defensive line but I would like to offer an optimistic view of what to expect in 2017.

Mayowa - led the team in sacks. Is still young and could continue to get better. Maybe he could get 8 sacks this year on a part time basis. That would be pretty good.

Demarcus Lawrence - has been suspended, injured and partially ineffective but this could be the year he shows something. It is a contract year after all and he could go from an afterthought to a guy that earns a big pay check in one year. I expect to see the best DLAW we have seen so far.

David Irving - flashed a couple of times and was downright dominant in a couple of games. He may be just scratching the surface and could take another leap forward this year. He also could be in line for a big pay day if he does continue to improve.

Randy Gregory - He will miss most of the season but if he can avoid trouble he will be added to the roster when we need him the most. Late in the year for playoff push and play offs. He needs to stay motivated and in shape and obviously avoid trouble but he could be a late season addition right when we need a boost the most.

Jack Crawford - I don't know if he will be re-signed but if he is this could be the year he starts to put it all together. He has the traits and has shown ability in limited capacity. Now is the time for him to step it up.

Tyrone Crawford - Injured and moved around quite a bit. He did apply a decent amount of pressure though even if his sack total was disappointing. If we can keep him at DT and he can stay healthy, this might be the year where he earns his bloated contract. Otherwise he could end up a June 1st cut next offseason.

Collins - had a decent rookie year and could make strides this year as well. He looks like a nice player and maybe he can become more than that.

Thornton - a little disappointing this year but has had a full year in his new surroundings and could take a leap forward.

Terrell Mcclain - If he is re-signed could continue to improve. He had by far his best year since being here and stayed healthy most of the year for the first time.

This is without considering contributions made by new additions. I think it is highly doubtful we don't see a couple of new pieces added. Even if it's not a first rd pick or a major FA acquisition there will be some talent added to the roster for the DL.

With a couple of breaks the D line could go from a weakness to a strength very easily.

My realistic hope is that 2 of these guys turn out to be real players. If I had to put my paycheck on it I would say it'll be Collins and Irving