Analysis Cowboys&Cooper vs Raiders&Brown

[xwalker]

The Raiders had the 2nd pick in round 3 and 3rd pick in round 5.

That's #66 and #141.

The value of those picks is equal to #60.

The Cowboys had pick 27.

27 + 32 = 59

That's almost exactly 1 round difference.

Raiders get:
Brown
#27

Raiders give up:
Cooper
Equivalent of #60

Brown is 31 and required a new contract for big money so there was no discount on his contract.

Brown was a malcontent with the Steelers.

Brown does not fit the type that ages well. He is a smallish WR with average speed (4.57 forty at the combine). When Randy Moss got older, he was still 6-4 and even if he lost a good bit of his 4.2 speed, he was still as fast or faster than many DBs. If Brown loses speed he'll look like the WR version of 2017 version of TE Jason Witten.

Cooper is 24 and had made the Pro Bowl 2 of his 3 years with the Raiders.

Cooper appears to be a "good soldier" type. That's according to reports about him in the locker-room as well as his on-field demeanor. He barely celebrates after big plays, usually just handing the ball to the ref and walking back to the huddle or sideline in somewhat of a Barry Sanders style.

Cooper is obviously a student of the game (he goes into derail on of thought process in interviews). He is also big, fast and freakishly quick.

Cooper will require a new contract but he had over 1.5 years of team control remaining before he becoming a free agent.

The Cowboys got basically a full season of value from him plus the playoffs in 2018 because once he helped them get to the playoffs, it didn't matter that he didn't play the first 7 games and the Cowboys didn't pay him for those games.

It really doesn't make sense for the Raider's.

The progress stopper concept rarely makes sense, but in this situation it might; although, more from a team development standpoint than an individual player perspective.

Their trades of Khalil Mack and Cooper were rebuilding type moves.

Long term, going all-in on a rebuild is a good way to build a great roster and the picks they received could be a mini-Hershel Walker type catalyst for them.

What is the point to acquiring a 31 year old WR giving up picks and big cap space?

It seems that they'll target a QB at pick #4.

Maybe they wanted WR Brown to help the new QB succeed but Brown clashed with his last QB.

A top notch OLine helps a young QB more than anything.

They had Cooper who seems to be a "QB friendly" type WR.

Personally in the Raiders situation I would want to horde picks and horde cap space to avoid cap hits in future years when they start to ascend and want to add free agents and later pay all of the players they've drafted.

If free agency had been in place back in 1989, would it have made any sense after the Hershel Walker trade for Jimmy to then trade for Jerry Rice and give him a huge contract extension?

Jimmy traded for Haley before the 92 season at which point Jimmy had the rest of his core in place and the team was clearly on the ascent.

 

[LatinMind]

The Raiders had the 2nd pick in round 3 and 3rd pick in round 5.

That's #66 and #141.

The value of those picks is equal to #60.

The Cowboys had pick 27.

27 + 32 = 59

That's almost exactly 1 round difference.

Raiders get:
Brown
#27

Raiders give up:
Cooper
Equivalent of #60

Brown is 31 and required a new contract for big money so there was no discount on his contract.

Brown was a malcontent with the Steelers.

Brown does not fit the type that ages well. He is a smallish WR with average speed (4.57 forty at the combine). When Randy Moss got older, he was still 6-4 and even if he lost a good bit of his 4.2 speed, he was still as fast or faster than many DBs. If Brown loses speed he'll look like the WR version of 2017 version of TE Jason Witten.

Cooper is 24 and had made the Pro Bowl 2 of his 3 years with the Raiders.

Cooper appears to be a "good soldier" type. That's according to reports about him in the locker-room as well as his on-field demeanor. He barely celebrates after big plays, usually just handing the ball to the ref and walking back to the huddle or sideline in somewhat of a Barry Sanders style.

Cooper is obviously a student of the game (he goes into derail on of thought process in interviews). He is also big, fast and freakishly quick.

Cooper will require a new contract but he had over 1.5 years of team control remaining before he becoming a free agent.

The Cowboys got basically a full season of value from him plus the playoffs in 2018 because once he helped them get to the playoffs, it didn't matter that he didn't play the first 7 games and the Cowboys didn't pay him for those games.

It really doesn't make sense for the Raider's.

The progress stopper concept rarely makes sense, but in this situation it might; although, more from a team development standpoint than an individual player perspective.

Their trades of Khalil Mack and Cooper were rebuilding type moves.

Long term, going all-in on a rebuild is a good way to build a great roster and the picks they received could be a mini-Hershel Walker type catalyst for them.

What is the point to acquiring a 31 year old WR giving up picks and big cap space?

It seems that they'll target a QB at pick #4.

Maybe they wanted WR Brown to help the new QB succeed but Brown clashed with his last QB.

A top notch OLine helps a young QB more than anything.

They had Cooper who seems to be a "QB friendly" type WR.

Personally in the Raiders situation I would want to horde picks and horde cap space to avoid cap hits in future years when they start to ascend and want to add free agents and later pay all of the players they've drafted.

If free agency had been in place back in 1989, would it have made any sense after the Hershel Walker trade for Jimmy to then trade for Jerry Rice and give him a huge contract extension?

Jimmy traded for Haley before the 92 season at which point Jimmy had the rest of his core in place and the team was clearly on the ascent.

The first oart if this post my dude makes no sense. I know what you were trying to do but its not needed to prove any point or opinion.

The Raiders got a really good deal. THey got the most productive WRs in the last 6 yrs for a 3rd and a 5th. And basically AB didnt just get 50mil deal, he got the 21mil owed to him from the steelers. The biggest winner is brown, because he;s getting roughly 52mil this yr. With his 21mil from the steelers and the 30+mil guranteed from the raiders.

Brown wanted out because of Ben plain and simple. You can see how the team felt about him with the amount of Pittsburgh players liking his social media post.

Now going into this whole Brown vs Cooper, it shouldnt even be a point. Both are in better situations for their own specific reasons. Cooper is in a place that utilizes him and wants him. Brown who already has the acomplishments is at a place where he got his money and is out of the hell he didnt want to be apart of.

Youre saying the raiders had to give up picks and cap for him...Well duh, you have to pay. But brown will give the team more then what they would've gotten in that 3rd and 5th pick combines plus more. Just like Cooper will give the cowboys more then whatever they wouldve got at 27.

Both trades were good for both teams.

Raiders paid money for Brown just like the cowboys are going to have to pay almost double for probably double the yrs for Cooper.

 

[charron]

They win in the talent aquisition. Brown is better than Cooper on the field today. Coop isn't too far behind him though.

We win with off the field accountability. No question Cooper is a better fit as a team mate.

We gave up a 1, they gave up a 3rd and 5th. They win for at least 1 year before browns nonesense really hurts his team.

We win for the next 5 years as Cooper is just entering his best years and likely brown begins to diminish.

No regrets trading for coop, it's all positive on this side so Dallas really wins in this deal.

 

[Kaiser]

What is the point to acquiring a 31 year old WR giving up picks and big cap space?

Good post. The point of acquiring Brown is to throw a bone to the fan base that calls your GM an idiot and threaten to stay home on game days.

Internet fans love to talk about doing a teardown to rebuild, but there is a point where your fans throw in the towel.

 

[Risen Star]

Brown is exactly the type of WR who ages well. He's a supreme route runner.

 

[RS12]

Right this minute Brown is the superior player, the question is, how does the contract look when he is 33.

 

[xwalker]

The first oart if this post my dude makes no sense. I know what you were trying to do but its not needed to prove any point or opinion.

The Raiders got a really good deal. THey got the most productive WRs in the last 6 yrs for a 3rd and a 5th. And basically AB didnt just get 50mil deal, he got the 21mil owed to him from the steelers. The biggest winner is brown, because he;s getting roughly 52mil this yr. With his 21mil from the steelers and the 30+mil guranteed from the raiders.

Brown wanted out because of Ben plain and simple. You can see how the team felt about him with the amount of Pittsburgh players liking his social media post.

Now going into this whole Brown vs Cooper, it shouldnt even be a point. Both are in better situations for their own specific reasons. Cooper is in a place that utilizes him and wants him. Brown who already has the acomplishments is at a place where he got his money and is out of the hell he didnt want to be apart of.

Youre saying the raiders had to give up picks and cap for him...Well duh, you have to pay. But brown will give the team more then what they would've gotten in that 3rd and 5th pick combines plus more. Just like Cooper will give the cowboys more then whatever they wouldve got at 27.

Both trades were good for both teams.

Raiders paid money for Brown just like the cowboys are going to have to pay almost double for probably double the yrs for Cooper.

No, the 21M is dead-money to the Steelers. That's from money they paid Brown in previous years but pushed the cap hits forward.

All money paid to Brown in 2019 will be from the Raiders. That appears to be between 50M and 54M over 3 years depending on incentives reached. The guaranteed 30M of the contract.

The 54M would be 18M average which is equal to the average of the current top WR contract.

The comp likely comes down to:

Brown
Age 31
3 years, 18M average
Raiders move up from ~#60 to #27

Cooper
Age 24
5 years, 18M average

The Raiders get an old WR whose 1st year is likely with a rookie QB on a rebuilding team. By the time the new QB is hitting his stride in about year 3, Brown will be 34 years old. Cooper will be 27.

 

[mattjames2010]

They win in the talent aquisition. Brown is better than Cooper on the field today. Coop isn't too far behind him though.

We win with off the field accountability. No question Cooper is a better fit as a team mate.

We gave up a 1, they gave up a 3rd and 5th. They win for at least 1 year before browns nonesense really hurts his team.

We win for the next 5 years as Cooper is just entering his best years and likely brown begins to diminish.

No regrets trading for coop, it's all positive on this side so Dallas really wins in this deal.

Coop isn't even in the same galaxy as Brown. It's Jones, Brown, and Hopkins then a gap between that and we get to the OBJ's and Evans of the league.

Brown, even in his "down year" had 1,200 yards and 15 TDs. Let's just hope Cooper can put together back to back good seasons and go from there...

 

[baltcowboy]

Coop isn't even in the same galaxy as Brown. It's Jones, Brown, and Hopkins then a gap between that and we get to the OBJ's and Evans of the league.

Brown, even in his "down year" had 1,200 yards and 15 TDs. Let's just hope Cooper can put together back to back good seasons and go from there...

You think Brown is going to get the ball from the Raiders like he did from the Steelers? I just don't see how Brown wins except for the cash. Cooper and Brown might have similar states next season.

 

[CyberB0b]

You think Brown is going to get the ball from the Raiders like he did from the Steelers? I just don't see how Brown wins except for the cash. Cooper and Brown might have similar states next season.

Why wouldn't he? He fits Gruden's offense really well.

 

[LatinMind]

No, the 21M is dead-money to the Steelers. That's from money they paid Brown in previous years but pushed the cap hits forward.

All money paid to Brown in 2019 will be from the Raiders. That appears to be between 50M and 54M over 3 years depending on incentives reached. The guaranteed 30M of the contract.

The 54M would be 18M average which is equal to the average of the current top WR contract.

The comp likely comes down to:

Brown
Age 31
3 years, 18M average
Raiders move up from ~#60 to #27

Cooper
Age 24
5 years, 18M average

The Raiders get an old WR whose 1st year is likely with a rookie QB on a rebuilding team. By the time the new QB is hitting his stride in about year 3, Brown will be 34 years old. Cooper will be 27.

Raiders get a WR that has shown no signs of decline. Raiders arent going QB. This is the problem of not living on the west coast. You dont know nothing about the raiders. They arent shopping Carr and theyre expecting big things from him in 2019. They said this before the AB trade. And a big part of AB wanting to go to OAK is Derek Carr.

If you want to compare, Raiders got AB and te 27th pick for Cooper and the 66th and 132th picks. Raiders are winning. AB is the best WR in the NFL and has been for a long time.

Cowboys didnt lose in their deal for Cooper. Cooper for the 27th, is a win too.

But Raiders have improved. People talk about Mack trade..But Gruden understand the way the NFL is right now. You need a QB and a WR tandem. Thats just the way it is with the rules. Yes DE is important but the NFL is starting to neutralizing them too with basically having tobasically hand touch a QB in a sack.

You take the super bowl teams
Rams 15th in sacks
Patriots 30th in sacks

While the teams did play defense in the superbowl. What got them to the superbowl was offense.

 

[mattjames2010]

You think Brown is going to get the ball from the Raiders like he did from the Steelers? I just don't see how Brown wins except for the cash. Cooper and Brown might have similar states next season.

I don't know what will happen with Brown while he plays for the Raiders, but AS OF NOW Brown is simply top 3 in the league and arguably the best WR in the league. We're talking about a guy, if he has 3-4 seasons of similar production he's had the past few years, he will be there with players like Moss and Owens. He's on pace for the HOF, he has 4x first team all-pros, 6 probowls, led the league in receiving yards twice.

I mean, come on, Cooper is just not Brown and he will probably never be. Let's say Cooper does go off next year and has a big season, he still isn't Brown. Brown has put together multiple big seasons - you don't get this from WRs often, his production is pretty insane.

Like I said, let's just hope Cooper is capable of putting together back to back good seasons.

 

[HungryLion]

Brown is exactly the type of WR who ages well. He's a supreme route runner.

I feel like Brown has a lot of time left.

Though Amari is also a supreme route runner and he is still 6 years younger. So he has even more years left in him.

Both teams did well.

 

[DFWJC]

Not sure what this obsession is with a trade between Pittsburgh and Oakland.
Dallas was not involved in this trade.....at all.

 

[Sarge]

I would have paid Mack.

 

[charron]

Coop isn't even in the same galaxy as Brown. It's Jones, Brown, and Hopkins then a gap between that and we get to the OBJ's and Evans of the league.

Brown, even in his "down year" had 1,200 yards and 15 TDs. Let's just hope Cooper can put together back to back good seasons and go from there...

Aside from touchdowns coops production here was on par with the top receivers. Only difference is brown has a good QB and we have Dak and as long as we have Zeke healthy coop will never catch 100 passes in this offense like brown.

 

[CCBoy]

Four picks in the top 25, Gruden may have flipped his team.

What if Bell signs with the Raiders as well?

 

[JayFord]

Imo I think the raiders are in “win now” mode this season

I think they’ll get leveon bell and I don’t think they will get Murray I think gruden sticks with care despite what’s being said

I mean You can’t limp into Las Vegas in 2020 at 3-13

 

[baltcowboy]

I don't know what will happen with Brown while he plays for the Raiders, but AS OF NOW Brown is simply top 3 in the league and arguably the best WR in the league. We're talking about a guy, if he has 3-4 seasons of similar production he's had the past few years, he will be there with players like Moss and Owens. He's on pace for the HOF, he has 4x first team all-pros, 6 probowls, led the league in receiving yards twice.

I mean, come on, Cooper is just not Brown and he will probably never be. Let's say Cooper does go off next year and has a big season, he still isn't Brown. Brown has put together multiple big seasons - you don't get this from WRs often, his production is pretty insane.

Like I said, let's just hope Cooper is capable of putting together back to back good seasons.

Brown is good but your only as good as your Quarterback. Cooper has all of Browns tools and he is younger by 6 years. I just don't know if Dak can make him a 100 catch receiver.

 

[CowboyRoy]

The Raiders had the 2nd pick in round 3 and 3rd pick in round 5.

That's #66 and #141.

The value of those picks is equal to #60.

The Cowboys had pick 27.

27 + 32 = 59

That's almost exactly 1 round difference.

Raiders get:
Brown
#27

Raiders give up:
Cooper
Equivalent of #60

Brown is 31 and required a new contract for big money so there was no discount on his contract.

Brown was a malcontent with the Steelers.

Brown does not fit the type that ages well. He is a smallish WR with average speed (4.57 forty at the combine). When Randy Moss got older, he was still 6-4 and even if he lost a good bit of his 4.2 speed, he was still as fast or faster than many DBs. If Brown loses speed he'll look like the WR version of 2017 version of TE Jason Witten.

Cooper is 24 and had made the Pro Bowl 2 of his 3 years with the Raiders.

Cooper appears to be a "good soldier" type. That's according to reports about him in the locker-room as well as his on-field demeanor. He barely celebrates after big plays, usually just handing the ball to the ref and walking back to the huddle or sideline in somewhat of a Barry Sanders style.

Cooper is obviously a student of the game (he goes into derail on of thought process in interviews). He is also big, fast and freakishly quick.

Cooper will require a new contract but he had over 1.5 years of team control remaining before he becoming a free agent.

The Cowboys got basically a full season of value from him plus the playoffs in 2018 because once he helped them get to the playoffs, it didn't matter that he didn't play the first 7 games and the Cowboys didn't pay him for those games.

It really doesn't make sense for the Raider's.

The progress stopper concept rarely makes sense, but in this situation it might; although, more from a team development standpoint than an individual player perspective.

Their trades of Khalil Mack and Cooper were rebuilding type moves.

Long term, going all-in on a rebuild is a good way to build a great roster and the picks they received could be a mini-Hershel Walker type catalyst for them.

What is the point to acquiring a 31 year old WR giving up picks and big cap space?

It seems that they'll target a QB at pick #4.

Maybe they wanted WR Brown to help the new QB succeed but Brown clashed with his last QB.

A top notch OLine helps a young QB more than anything.

They had Cooper who seems to be a "QB friendly" type WR.

Personally in the Raiders situation I would want to horde picks and horde cap space to avoid cap hits in future years when they start to ascend and want to add free agents and later pay all of the players they've drafted.

If free agency had been in place back in 1989, would it have made any sense after the Hershel Walker trade for Jimmy to then trade for Jerry Rice and give him a huge contract extension?

Jimmy traded for Haley before the 92 season at which point Jimmy had the rest of his core in place and the team was clearly on the ascent.

The two trades have nothing to do with one another. Trading Cooper for what amounted to the 25th pick is a win for the Cowboys. But we will have to see what the Raiders turn that pick into.

The raiders going out and getting the best WR in football for a 3rd and 5th round pick is an incredible deal. And they only had to sign him to a 3 year deal. I would take that all day long.