Analyzing the roster (offense)

[DallasEast]

So if Owens was Owens in 2007, was it a bad thing?

Owens has been in the NFL for 13 years. We can look at each year individually during that span. It's safe to say that Owens hasn't similarly played the "boy scout of 2007" during each and every year of his career.

We just need to win and he'll find his happy place. But I still think this management needs to re-explain its expectations of him to him, just to give him a reminder of how things need to be.

Every player is frustrated for any given reason during any season whether their team is winning or losing. However, 99+% of his peers do not react in the same fashion due to their frustration like Owens has or may will in the future. Of course, frustration isn't the only motivation for Owens to react atypically also. He is Terrell Owens, after all.

Wanting Owens to "understand" how things should be is not unlike trying to grab air with your hands. You may want to do it, but it's a fruitless exercise. He's going to react in a fashion he deems fit regardless of what others want. No one is going to change that fact.

 

[gimmesix]

Owens has been in the NFL for 13 years. We can look at each year individually during that span. It's safe to say that Owens hasn't similarly played the "boy scout of 2007" during each and every year of his career.

I think it's also safe to say he hasn't been the bad boy every year of his career. We tend to notice those years when he is because when he does it he does it well.

The question is will the Owens of 2009 resemble the one from 2007 or 2008. And I don't know the answer to that. All I know is that management can either sit down with him, reiterate what it expects and take the chance the he will return to his 2007 form or decide it doesn't want to take that chance.

Since we know that Owens' behavior depends on whether the team wins or loses, then I think management should keep that in consideration. I think you take the chance because this isn't a bad team. On a bad team, Owens is cancer. On a team that has Romo for a full year, this team wins and Owens stays happy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Actually, I believe Gurode is considered to be pretty smart. I could be wrong, but I don't see all the wrong calls you are talking about, and I am sure more would be made of it if he was constantly making the wrong calls. What I see is players being beaten by the man they are supposed to block. Not much Gurode can do about that.

I exaggerate when I call him stupid, but he has mental lapses, see staring at Romo while Romo is practically crying for him to snap the ball

and then there was the being distracted by the prescence of his best friend (Torrin Tucker)

I don't think everyone will ever get on the same page on the line, as long as he keeps spacing out

 

[DallasEast]

I think it's also safe to say he hasn't been the bad boy every year of his career. We tend to notice those years when he is because when he does it he does it well.

The question is will the Owens of 2009 resemble the one from 2007 or 2008. And I don't know the answer to that. All I know is that management can either sit down with him, reiterate what it expects and take the chance the he will return to his 2007 form or decide it doesn't want to take that chance.

Since we know that Owens' behavior depends on whether the team wins or loses, then I think management should keep that in consideration. I think you take the chance because this isn't a bad team. On a bad team, Owens is cancer. On a team that has Romo for a full year, this team wins and Owens stays happy.

Ah. No, we do not know any such thing. This is 13 (now 14) year veteran which we're discussing, who is prone to "I love me some me" tiffs from time to time. Also, it is the players and not management who should keep that sort of potential disgruntlement in mind--although it is management's responsibility to discipline disgruntled players after they have made their feelings known irresponsibility with little regard to the "team" concept.

 

[gimmesix]

I exaggerate when I call him stupid, but he has mental lapses, see staring at Romo while Romo is practically crying for him to snap the ball

and then there was the being distracted by the prescence of his best friend (Torrin Tucker)

I don't think everyone will ever get on the same page on the line, as long as he keeps spacing out

I just don't consider him any kind of real problem for this line. The problems primarily were Adams and Proctor. The others make mistakes, just like with any team, but those two's play magnified things.

 

[gimmesix]

Ah. No, we do not know any such thing. This is 13 (now 14) year veteran which we're discussing, who is prone to "I love me some me" tiffs from time to time. Also, it is the players and not management who should keep that sort of potential disgruntlement in mind--although it is management's responsibility to discipline disgruntled players after they have made their feelings known irresponsibility with little regard to the "team" concept.

OK, I'll add in disrespect ... that also sets him off. But that hasn't been a problem here. What has been? Losing. When does Owens go off? When we lose.

We could debate these points ad nauseam, but my belief is that if you're the Cowboys management, you sit down with Owens, you air out the concerns, you see his reaction to those concerns and you make a decision. My belief is Owens could easily return to what we saw in 2007 if the offense shows it can be successful, and I think that will ultimately lead to Dallas deciding to give him that chance.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I just don't consider him any kind of real problem for this line. The problems primarily were Adams and Proctor. The others make mistakes, just like with any team, but those two's play magnified things.

idk, I think he's holding our line back

it doesn't seem to be a coherent group, and I think that it starts with the C

OK, I'll add in disrespect ... that also sets him off. But that hasn't been a problem here. What has been? Losing. When does Owens go off? When we lose.

We could debate these points ad nauseam, but my belief is that if you're the Cowboys management, you sit down with Owens, you air out the concerns, you see his reaction to those concerns and you make a decision. My belief is Owens could easily return to what we saw in 2007 if the offense shows it can be successful, and I think that will ultimately lead to Dallas deciding to give him that chance.

when we lose, more times than not, TO is a non-factor

I'm sure he hates losing, just about as much as he hates having a bad game

 

[burmafrd]

When you have virtually every player regress and backups look worse over the course of one season with a different coach you HAVE to consider the coach at least part of the problem. To think anything else is to be really stupid. Houck WAS a great coach in the 90's. BUT many coaches lose that capability later on in life to get it done. That has to be considered here.

 

[28 Joker]

I just looked at Kosier's cap numbers. I thought he was going into his last year, but his last year is 2010.

This isn't AdamJT13, but it's all I could find. I got it from Rotoworld.

Kosier will make $ 2.63 million in 2009.
He will make $ 2.99 million in 2010.

A second round guard could push him this year and offer a younger, stronger, cheaper upgrade by 2010 for sure.

Martellus Bennett's contract was a 4 year, $2.570 total contract. Bennett was a second round pick. The Cowboys could upgrade Kosier in 2010 and save money.

The Cowboys shouldn't (imo) pass up a blue-chip guard, one of the two power guards, in round 2. The value should be there, in round 2, for one of the two players (Robinson or Johnson).

If you look at the free agent guard list, Joe Berger's name is listed on it. Why?

Guards are starting to get tougher to find, and if the value is there in round 2, I would jump all over it.

Jason Watkins would be a great LT prospect, and that position scares me. Watkins' stock is rising. He would be ideal in round 4, but he could go late in round three. Outside of Watkins, I don't see anyone in range, and I don't like Troy Kroprogg. Watkins can be groomed faster than a small school guy who will need significant training.

 

[28 Joker]

I agree that worring about Proctor didn't help Gurode. Leonard Davis was the guy that sufferred, imo.

If Gurode didn't deserve the Pro Bowl, he wouldn't have made it. Not only did he make it, he started it. The coaches and players accounted for 2/3s of the vote.

Shaun O'Hara had too good a year, for the winning team, for Gurode to get a gift. Gurode earned it, imo.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I think people need to remember that Holland did a damn good job when stepping in for koiser if he doesn't go down we don't lose that Steeler game and the season would have been totally different but that's was just a bad beat. Also the coaches waited to long to go to Holland which was also another failure on their part. We have solid depth at Guard whether we use it or not is going to be the question.

 

[gimmesix]

I think people need to remember that Holland did a damn good job when stepping in for koiser if he doesn't go down we don't lose that Steeler game and the season would have been totally different but that's was just a bad beat. Also the coaches waited to long to go to Holland which was also another failure on their part. We have solid depth at Guard whether we use it or not is going to be the question.

I liked what I saw from Holland, too, but just question his commitment to getting in shape. In the one game he played completely, someone, I believe it was the coaches, talked about how he struggled conditioningwise in the fourth quarter.

 

[gimmesix]

When you have virtually every player regress and backups look worse over the course of one season with a different coach you HAVE to consider the coach at least part of the problem. To think anything else is to be really stupid. Houck WAS a great coach in the 90's. BUT many coaches lose that capability later on in life to get it done. That has to be considered here.

I'm giving Houck a bit of a mulligan because of the left guard situation. If we have our entire line intact and the players regress then you have to look at the coaching.

I just think Proctor really messed up the cohesiveness of this group. It was like a domino effect.

 

[gimmesix]

I agree that worring about Proctor didn't help Gurode. Leonard Davis was the guy that sufferred, imo.

If Gurode didn't deserve the Pro Bowl, he wouldn't have made it. Not only did he make it, he started it. The coaches and players accounted for 2/3s of the vote.

Shaun O'Hara had too good a year, for the winning team, for Gurode to get a gift. Gurode earned it, imo.

Although I tend to discount Pro Bowl berths, I agree. I don't think Gurode got there by popularity alone. It's kind of what Jason Ferguson said a couple of years ago in the preseason: The center he most dreaded going up against was Gurode. I think a lot of defensive linemen would say that because most of the time in this league, they have a physical advantage over centers.

 

[fan62]

I still feel that our big problem on offense is the blocking and blitz pickups of our line. I was criticized last year(2007), because I said our line was too old. We were the 4th oldest in the league. I will try to have all the numbers later this week. But comparing our line to the 2 Superbowl teams we are an average of four and a half years older, than those two teams.
This OL is too old and too slow to keep Tony from being pressured and forget pulling someone to the outside to block. It ain't going to happen. This offense will do nothing against young defenses and blitzing teams. I don't care how good our line coach is, this line is going to have more injuries and will decline each and every year, until they get some solid help, and there is probably no help in sight. Garrett could be the greatest play caller of all time, but the OL execution will never be there, for this team to win a playoff game, against a decent team.
I expect 3 of the 5 linemen to sit more than half the year on the bench or injured reserve, because they cannot handle the season any longer.
I expect to lose to everyone in the NFC east except maybe the Commanders, unless something is done.
FOUR AND A HALF YEARS!

 

[gimmesix]

I still feel that our big problem on offense is the blocking and blitz pickups of our line. I was criticized last year(2007), because I said our line was too old. We were the 4th oldest in the league. I will try to have all the numbers later this week. But comparing our line to the 2 Superbowl teams we are an average of four and a half years older, than those two teams.
This OL is too old and too slow to keep Tony from being pressured and forget pulling someone to the outside to block. It ain't going to happen. This offense will do nothing against young defenses and blitzing teams. I don't care how good our line coach is, this line is going to have more injuries and will decline each and every year, until they get some solid help, and there is probably no help in sight. Garrett could be the greatest play caller of all time, but the OL execution will never be there, for this team to win a playoff game, against a decent team.
I expect 3 of the 5 linemen to sit more than half the year on the bench or injured reserve, because they cannot handle the season any longer.
I expect to lose to everyone in the NFC east except maybe the Commanders, unless something is done.
FOUR AND A HALF YEARS!

Adams: 33
Kosier: 30
Gurode: 30
Davis: 30
Colombo: 30

That's not an old line. And considering how many sacks Pittsburgh gave up, I'm not sure "youth" was an advantage there.

Our line is slow because we go for big players who have mass and power over smaller, more athletic ones.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

I liked what I saw from Holland, too, but just question his commitment to getting in shape. In the one game he played completely, someone, I believe it was the coaches, talked about how he struggled conditioningwise in the fourth quarter.

Maybe if the practice were a little more intese our players would have that extra burst in the 4th quarter.

 

[gimmesix]

Maybe if the practice were a little more intese our players would have that extra burst in the 4th quarter.

I'm really not sure practice had much to do with Holland being out of shape. He was cut for that reason in Denver and I just think he never got as far along as he needed to, possibly contributing to his injury.

Hopefully, Jurassic Park can get him in the weight room and motivate him to show up in shape. If he does, I think he has the physical ability to take Kosier's job.

 

[CF74]

I think people need to remember that Holland did a damn good job when stepping in for koiser if he doesn't go down we don't lose that Steeler game and the season would have been totally different but that's was just a bad beat. Also the coaches waited to long to go to Holland which was also another failure on their part. We have solid depth at Guard whether we use it or not is going to be the question.

I'm wondering if Holland might beat out Kosier for LG this year. It all really depends on if he gets in shape over the off season, or if he sits around eating Cheetos watching reruns of I Love Lucy...

 

[CF74]

Garrett could be the greatest play caller of all time

If he knew how to play call around our weaknesses he would be with all these weapons we have. It's frustrating seeing Romo run for his life all the time or going down because plays take to long to develop. We need more quick outs, slants, screens, dump offs, etc.....:horse: