Another game lost due to referee bias

[DogFace]

I know bad calls happen that shouldn't be blamed for the outcomes of games. That wasn't the point of my post as I clearly stated in the first sentence. I was remarking only on the two particularly bad calls in this game that this thread deals with. The first was inexcusable. First they called it a fumble on the field. Then they overruled it as a fumble on the field and said the receiver was down by contact. Then they looked at the video and it was obvious from it that his knee wasn't down and he was losing possession of the ball and they still said he was down. The fact that they overruled the call on the field allowed them the ability to disclaim indisputable evidence because it was close enough to say that his knee could have been down. The same adherence to such a standard was not applied to Dez's catch last year. Instead a bizarre manipulation and interpretation of rules took place to justify the overturn. It is this type of contradictory behavior and dubiousness that leaves open the door to doubt on the motivations of the refs.

This says it all Sultan. Great post. This is why some of us feel we get slighted by the refs on occasion.
It's not just that it's a bad call it's the circumstances that make it a horrible call. The ruling on the field changed so it would be possible to say they couldn't overturn it. Well said.

 

[DogFace]

He never said face guarding he said




That's the rule in the NFL. You have to turn your head to show you can make a play on the ball vs making contact without playing ball. Nothing to do with face guarding

He contact only by swatting his hand. He retaliated his grabbing of the facemask by swatting his hand off his facemask.

 

[DogFace]

I agree that those were bad calls and maybe one of the refs on the field really hates Dallas, not out of the realm of possibility. However, I do not believe there is a league wide conspiracy between the other owners and the referee union to intentionally screw Dallas in every game.

That is tinfoil hat territory..............one or two refs I can buy, but a league wide conspiracy is a bit much.

Not many on here think it's a league wide conspiracy. Many feel there is bias. The fact that Cowboys are one of the most hated teams and their glamor image are some factors. Imo.

 

[Fredd]

refs schmefs....how about scoring some points and getting such a lead that it isn't in the hands of the zebras that are supposed be transparent to the game

 

[Beast_from_East]

refs schmefs....how about scoring some points and getting such a lead that it isn't in the hands of the zebras that are supposed be transparent to the game

That's another problem right there..............when you are 30th in scoring offense, a bad call will cost you the game. When you are putting up points like the Patriots, Panthers, or Cardinals do, one or two bad calls doesn't really matter that much.

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm sorry but umpiring children in one of the 1000's of leagues and officiating top level grown men in pro sports is completly different in almost every way. Definitely when it comes to having favorite or least favorite teams. Many of these people got into the profession because they are sports fans.

First, many umpires and referees at lower levels got into their jobs because they are sports fans.And they're probably more of a fan of local teams because they likely know on a personal level more of the kids playing and more of the coaches.

Second, where do you think refs in the NFL come from? They come from the lower leagues and graduate through the ranks.

Third, in all leagues where you're getting paid money (and I get paid umpiring), you are graded on your performance. You don't get the better games if you are inconsistent in your duties or someone suspects you of cheating.

Fourth, do you know how many refs in the lower levels would LOVE to be NFL referees? Because of the sheer numbers, every ref is going to be as careful as he possibly can to avoid bias because of the tremendous opportunity he has to referee professional football.

Fifth, these guys aren't refereeing kids. They're refereeing games with men who are bigger, stronger and faster than they. Do you HONESTLY think they're doing to purposely do something to piss these men off?

Sixth, in order for you to say there's an immense difference you would have to have the experience to compare the two. Have you ever been an NFL ref? Do you have the testimony of an NFL ref who says it is different? And HOW are the two different? You say they are different but don't explain how. I'd be interested in hearing your insight, especially since you've never officiated an NFL game.

Seventh, at least I have experience calling games. And the things I've shared are basic, human attitudes about officiating games. That much I know. And I'm telling you that refs aren't purposely trying to make calls against teams because they don't like them. Why? Because it's not what you're thinking about when you're more concerned about making the right call. There have been calls I've made against people I know and like. I made a game winning call for a team with a coach I can't stand. When I'm in the game I'm not thinking, "I don't like this coach so let me call his player out." I'm more focused on the play and making the right call. How much more if your every call can be viewed by millions of people?

 

[tyke1doe]

You're seeing the part where he is shoving his hand via his arm off his facemask.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pettigrew grabs hitchens mask&client=safari&hl=en&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPuqrQ3fHJAhUCw2MKHZkzCOIQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=WThETWBuMvxO5M:

Yeah, and I also see the part where he's reaching for the ball with neither hand on a facemask yet Hitchens has his hands on Pettigrew.

You know, the picture HoustonFrog has posted several times, yet you apparently keep shutting your eyes like you're peering into the hot, blazing glory of the sun every time he does.

 

[Everson24]

I agree that those were bad calls and maybe one of the refs on the field really hates Dallas, not out of the realm of possibility. However, I do not believe there is a league wide conspiracy between the other owners and the referee union to intentionally screw Dallas in every game.

That is tinfoil hat territory..............one or two refs I can buy, but a league wide conspiracy is a bit much.

I dont know about a league wide conspiracy, but there does seem to be some bias by officiating crews across the board. The Steelers and Giants come immediatly to mind as teams that seem to get every close call whereas we seem to always seem to have to use a challenge to try to get it corrected.

If one team gets most of the benefit of doubt calls then they can benefit further from the replay rules that require indisputable evidence. This caused a 12 point swing in the Jets game. Sure, you could say that they got the calls right, but had they ruled both Decker's and Fitzpatrick's as fumbles on the field neither would have been likely to be overturned. Here is where the bias against a team can hurt them in the long run. It happened numerous times on turnovers for TDs last year as well. Most of those plays should have been allowed to play out.

 

[Miller]

In the refs explanation after the game he stated that in the NFL face guarding isn't illegal. You're wrong.
Again. Also, he didn't impede his progress on the poor throw that hit him in the middle of his back. The receiver was running backwards and made no attempt to stop and comeback to the ball. He might've got the call if he had or the ball was thrown better.

It's pretty obvious you have serious issues keeping up and reading threads. The fact that you had to reply 5 times to try and explain something that Sultan and I went through all yesterday says a lot. And AGAIN you are highly confused on face guarding. Stop trying to act like you even remotely know what is going on. The ref said he thought face guarding was from his angle but that is only a college rule. The rule that Tyke brought up that you whiffed on completely was about turning his head. You refuse to go back and read the conversation but face guarding is not part of that equation. It's embarrassing you can't keep up. Also, the hold was not within 5 yards so that is blatantly false and was confirmed by the league and the PI was too as I put a slow motion video in here that shows it and even Sultan conceded it looked like a push not due to the facemask. Speaking of drinking..stop posting thread splatter in the middle of the night. It's nonsense. Right now my advice is to stop while behind. I admitted even with a facemask it's still Detroits ball, replay 3rd down...though Blandino said it wasn't a foul after watching. Here you go enjoy...no head turned, contact with a push, impeding TE who came for ball. Beast from East and others not being homer agree

https://vine.co/v/OdpLdDFP3rW


And By the way I do think what players say matter because they play the game and are on the field vs sit in a board making up rules.

 

[Everson24]

I don't think the majority of people are blaming the refs for the loss. They're blaming the refs for blatantly doing a hack job on two calls that should have gone the Cowboys' way. Whether this is due to the Cowboys or due to the fact that they suck this year and could have affected the record of a possible playoff contender is moot. The fact is, the first contestable call was ruled as a fumble for the Cowboys', then overruled as down on the field by another ref across the field, then looked at and confirmed even though it was clearly a fumble according to the video and the rules, leading to the Jets' ball on that possession was an exemplification of something that could be interpreted as a "conspiracy". This tied in with the recent history of what happened to Dez last year only magnifies the issue.

This is exactly my point. I watch every Steelers game and I have absoluety no doubt that both fumbles would have been called as such on the field and then left to the oppostion to challenge it. It seems to happen every week.

If anyone remembers the 2008 game with the Steelers, the same thing happened to us. Every close call went against us and Wade Phillips had to use 3 challenges in the first half alone! (We lost one on a close call similar to the Decker play.) We then were out of challenges in the fourth quarter and it bit us big time. On the Steelers game tying drive Big Ben scrambled on a key 3rd down and came up a full 2 yards short. They would have punted or tried for a long FG except the ref marked it just inches short of a first down and then they QB sneaked it for the first down and ultimatly the tying TD. The benefit of doubt calls going against us caused us to be out of challenges and contributed to us losing that game and out of the playoffs.

 

[Miller]

This is exactly my point. I watch every Steelers game and I have absoluety no doubt that both fumbles would have been called as such on the field and then left to the oppostion to challenge it. It seems to happen every week.

If anyone remembers the 2008 game with the Steelers, the same thing happened to us. Every close call went against us and Wade Phillips had to use 3 challenges in the first half alone! (We lost one on a close call similar to the Decker play.) We then were out of challenges in the fourth quarter and it bit us big time. On the Steelers game tying drive Big Ben scrambled on a key 3rd down and came up a full 2 yards short. They would have punted or tried for a long FG except the ref marked it just inches short of a first down and then they QB sneaked it for the first down and ultimatly the tying TD. The benefit of doubt calls going against us caused us to be out of challenges and contributed to us losing that game and out of the playoffs.

Steelers should never complain after their gift SB win over Seattle due to the refs. THAT was horrible.

 

[DogFace]

First, many umpires and referees at lower levels got into their jobs because they are sports fans.And they're probably more of a fan of local teams because they likely know on a personal level more of the kids playing and more of the coaches.

Second, where do you think refs in the NFL come from? They come from the lower leagues and graduate through the ranks.

Third, in all leagues where you're getting paid money (and I get paid umpiring), you are graded on your performance. You don't get the better games if you are inconsistent in your duties or someone suspects you of cheating.

Fourth, do you know how many refs in the lower levels would LOVE to be NFL referees? Because of the sheer numbers, every ref is going to be as careful as he possibly can to avoid bias because of the tremendous opportunity he has to referee professional football.

Fifth, these guys aren't refereeing kids. They're refereeing games with men who are bigger, stronger and faster than they. Do you HONESTLY think they're doing to purposely do something to piss these men off?

Sixth, in order for you to say there's an immense difference you would have to have the experience to compare the two. Have you ever been an NFL ref? Do you have the testimony of an NFL ref who says it is different? And HOW are the two different? You say they are different but don't explain how. I'd be interested in hearing your insight, especially since you've never officiated an NFL game.

Seventh, at least I have experience calling games. And the things I've shared are basic, human attitudes about officiating games. That much I know. And I'm telling you that refs aren't purposely trying to make calls against teams because they don't like them. Why? Because it's not what you're thinking about when you're more concerned about making the right call. There have been calls I've made against people I know and like. I made a game winning call for a team with a coach I can't stand. When I'm in the game I'm not thinking, "I don't like this coach so let me call his player out." I'm more focused on the play and making the right call. How much more if your every call can be viewed by millions of people?

I won't read all that.

You're welcome to believe anything you want.

 

[DogFace]

Yeah, and I also see the part where he's reaching for the ball with neither hand on a facemask yet Hitchens has his hands on Pettigrew.

You know, the picture HoustonFrog has posted several times, yet you apparently keep shutting your eyes like you're peering into the hot, blazing glory of the sun every time he does.

Yes. He's knocking his hand off of his facemask. Watch it again. You'll see.

Unfortunately, toddlers you umpire aren't afforded the luxury of you being able to watch something over and over to see it correctly.

 

[tyke1doe]

I won't read all that.

You don't want to read it because you don't want to be proven wrong.

You're welcome to believe anything you want.

So are you and your ridiculous, elementary-level belief that professional referees who are getting paid handsomely to officiate a game they love would allow juvenile sports loyalty to influence their decisions.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

This thread conveniently leaves out the totally botched horsecollar call that directly lead to Cowboys points

they always do...

 

[tyke1doe]

Yes. He's knocking his hand off of his facemask. Watch it again. You'll see.

I saw. And I also saw him trying to catch a ball but being blocked by Hitchens.

Unfortunately, toddlers you umpire aren't afforded the luxury of you being able to watch something over and over to see it correctly.

At least I have experience ACTUALLY umpiring in real time as opposed to sipping a beer on my couch officiating games.

 

[DogFace]

It's pretty obvious you have serious issues keeping up and reading threads. The fact that you had to reply 5 times to try and explain something that Sultan and I went through all yesterday says a lot. And AGAIN you are highly confused on face guarding. Stop trying to act like you even remotely know what is going on. The ref said he thought face guarding was from his angle but that is only a college rule. The rule that Tyke brought up that you whiffed on completely was about turning his head. You refuse to go back and read the conversation but face guarding is not part of that equation. It's embarrassing you can't keep up. Also, the hold was not within 5 yards so that is blatantly false and was confirmed by the league and the PI was too as I put a slow motion video in here that shows it and even Sultan conceded it looked like a push not due to the facemask. Speaking of drinking..stop posting thread splatter in the middle of the night. It's nonsense. Right now my advice is to stop while behind. I admitted even with a facemask it's still Detroits ball, replay 3rd down...though Blandino said it wasn't a foul after watching. Here you go enjoy...no head turned, contact with a push, impeding TE who came for ball. Beast from East and others not being homer agree

https://vine.co/v/OdpLdDFP3rW


And By the way I do think what players say matter because they play the game and are on the field vs sit in a board making up rules.

I tried to reply over and over so you might understand and said the same things in different ways to help you.
I tried to answer several times in different ways so you could grasp the concepts.

This is your sentence: "The ref said he thought face guarding was from his angle but that is only in college"
That's cute.

Turning ones head, as has been told to you over and over by more than me, only matters if there is contact initiated by the defender. Pettigrew initiated the contact. Long after the grabbing of the jersey. Hichens simply smacked his hand away.

Which part don't you understand and we'll go over it some more?

 

[DogFace]

I saw. And I also saw him trying to catch a ball but being blocked by Hitchens.



At least I have experience ACTUALLY umpiring in real time as opposed to sipping a beer on my couch officiating games.

Right. That's experience. I ref my two and four year old in the backyard. I'm essentially nba ready.

 

[tyke1doe]

Right. That's experience. I ref my two and four year old in the backyard. I'm essentially nba ready.

This is where you want this conversation to go. You couldn't address any of the points I've made. You couldn't give an answer to why you think officiating in the little league is different than officiating in the pros.
You can't recognize the fundamental similarities in attitudes and mentality between the two or that one provides a foundation for the other.

Instead, you want to make a big deal about umpiring in little league baseball.

Again, at least I have experience in real time officiating games where I have to make split-second decisions. I've been doing this for close to five years. And the mechanics of what I do and how I arrive at my decisions are similar in how professional referees do it - regardless of the level.

I KNOW what I'm talking about, and I - at the very least - have experience as an umpire to back up my claim.

All you have is grammar-school jokes and a kindergarten-level belief that referees make calls based on their favorite teams.

So continue on with what you do best. I'll discuss with someone who wants to communicate on a mature, adult level.

 

[mmohican29]

This says it all Sultan. Great post. This is why some of us feel we get slighted by the refs on occasion.
It's not just that it's a bad call it's the circumstances that make it a horrible call. The ruling on the field changed so it would be possible to say they couldn't overturn it. Well said.

Throw in the 12 men/Two Consecutive TO vs. Seattle situation as in the same realm as this kind of referee bias.