Another game lost due to referee bias

[Miller]

Yeah, he does give him a nudge to his shoulder there in slow motion. It's harder to see in full speed of the video as opposed to here. Whether doing that actually prevented him from catching a ball that hit Hitchens in the back with his momentum falling backwards is debatable. I don't think it would have made a difference at all. I guess you can call it payback for the receiver using illegal hands to the face on him twice. If you want a fair interpretation of that entire play, the whole thing was a mess of contact up and down the field. So let them play and hence no penalty.

We aren't going to agree on things with the play so we can leave it at that. Im cool with that. I think throwing the flag to start and picking it up after announcing it made the "no penalty" tougher on Lions. No disrespect or personal slights taken Sultan. Glad I got to waste a day while attempting to work pre-holiday. I'm out of this now! Need a cold one.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

No, its the rules in the pros. Again, know the rules

Face guarding is not a foul in the NFL.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I don't think the majority of people are blaming the refs for the loss. They're blaming the refs for blatantly doing a hack job on two calls that should have gone the Cowboys' way. Whether this is due to the Cowboys or due to the fact that they suck this year and could have affected the record of a possible playoff contender is moot. The fact is, the first contestable call was ruled as a fumble for the Cowboys', then overruled as down on the field by another ref across the field, then looked at and confirmed even though it was clearly a fumble according to the video and the rules, leading to the Jets' ball on that possession was an exemplification of something that could be interpreted as a "conspiracy". This tied in with the recent history of what happened to Dez last year only magnifies the issue.

Bad calls happen across the league because the refs in general just suck, doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.

The Detroit Lions have lost multiple games this year due to bad calls, be it the batted ball in the endzone against Seattle not called or the phantom face mask against Rogers that set up the Hail Mary pass (replay showed that his shoulder pad was grabbed, not the face mask). You could even go back to the playoff game last year where the refs called PI and then picked the flag up after a 2 min discussion. My brother is a Titans fan and we watch the games together and defenders are diving at Mariotta's knees and no flags are ever thrown. Even Wisenhunt before he was fired said that was "BS football".

So are the other owners mad at the Ford family or the Adam's family and telling the refs to intentionally screw them on calls? Like I said, the officiating in the NFL is just horrible all around and a lot of teams are getting bad calls.

 

[Beast_from_East]

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/laces-...-pass-interference-negated-controversy-010415

Even if that is not PI, that is clearly defensive holding and should have been an automatic first down. You can easily see the jersey being grabbed.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Try reading through thread.

This better

Or this

I am sorry, but that is PI all day long.

Detroit got screwed just like we got screwed a week later in Green Bay.

That is why they say that over the course of a season, the calls usually balance out. You get some calls and your opponent gets some calls. There is no conspiracy against certain teams.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Bad calls happen across the league because the refs in general just suck, doesn't mean there is a conspiracy.

The Detroit Lions have lost multiple games this year due to bad calls, be it the batted ball in the endzone against Seattle not called or the phantom face mask against Rogers that set up the Hail Mary pass (replay showed that his shoulder pad was grabbed, not the face mask). You could even go back to the playoff game last year where the refs called PI and then picked the flag up after a 2 min discussion. My brother is a Titans fan and we watch the games together and defenders are diving at Mariotta's knees and no flags are ever thrown. Even Wisenhunt before he was fired said that was "BS football".

So are the other owners mad at the Ford family or the Adam's family and telling the refs to intentionally screw them on calls? Like I said, the officiating in the NFL is just horrible all around and a lot of teams are getting bad calls.

I know bad calls happen that shouldn't be blamed for the outcomes of games. That wasn't the point of my post as I clearly stated in the first sentence. I was remarking only on the two particularly bad calls in this game that this thread deals with. The first was inexcusable. First they called it a fumble on the field. Then they overruled it as a fumble on the field and said the receiver was down by contact. Then they looked at the video and it was obvious from it that his knee wasn't down and he was losing possession of the ball and they still said he was down. The fact that they overruled the call on the field allowed them the ability to disclaim indisputable evidence because it was close enough to say that his knee could have been down. The same adherence to such a standard was not applied to Dez's catch last year. Instead a bizarre manipulation and interpretation of rules took place to justify the overturn. It is this type of contradictory behavior and dubiousness that leaves open the door to doubt on the motivations of the refs.

 

[Miller]

Face guarding is not a foul in the NFL.

He never said face guarding he said

tyke1doe said: ↑
I don't even know what you're talking about. If a receiver is coming back for the ball and the defender isn't playing the ball or doesn't have his head turned to play the ball, that's PASS INTERFERENCE!

That's the rule in the NFL. You have to turn your head to show you can make a play on the ball vs making contact without playing ball. Nothing to do with face guarding

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

He never said face guarding he said




That's the rule in the NFL. You have to turn your head to show you can make a play on the ball vs making contact without playing ball. Nothing to do with face guarding

Playing the ball, turning around are not required to avoid pass interference. Those are usually referred to as face guarding and doing them is not PI. You don't have to turn your head.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

Mike Carey on the play:

“There is no foul for not playing the ball"

 

[DandyDon52]

There is no conspiracy against any team or teams.
However games could be manipulated for gambling reasons, and not just about who wins, there is also scoring, the over under.
With todays technology, the refs on the field could be told what to do and when.

Really it should be all up to the refs not any outside influence like blandino, or booth people, and refs should be able to review
any play they feel they need to . at any time.

Dont you find it odd that in last 2 min all reviews are from the booth only??
Why have a rule like that ??
That is a time where games are decided, but they take all refs out of the review process. !

Some faceless guy or guys make a decision, and also decide if a review is needed, and I think that is the one that is bogus.

then some things are re-viewable but some are not lol, have always thought that was odd.

 

[Miller]

Playing the ball, turning around are not required to avoid pass interference. Those are usually referred to as face guarding and doing them is not PI. You don't have to turn your head.

It's not called face guarding. Stop acting like that's right. Face guarding is hands up and blocking the WR ability to catch ball with hands in his face.

This is part of the NFL rules so you were wrong. I didn't say it was required. Tyke said in this case the DB would have had a chance if he turned to play the ball. That's one part of the rule. If a player is not playing the ball and has not turned to play the ball, contact can be deemed PI. That's why people said this was blatant. And it's why Hitchens in the article I posted said he was working to turn his head. It's also why Pereira pointed it out on air after. A DB has the same right to ball if turned and playing it vs running with back turned and running into WR.

 

[ActualCowboysFan]

"That's the rule in the NFL. You have to turn your head to show you can make a play on the ball"

No you don't.


"If a receiver is coming back for the ball and the defender isn't playing the ball or doesn't have his head turned to play the ball, that's PASS INTERFERENCE!"

No its not.

 

[Miller]

"That's the rule in the NFL. You have to turn your head to show you can make a play on the ball"

No you don't.


"If a receiver is coming back for the ball and the defender isn't playing the ball or doesn't have his head turned to play the ball, that's PASS INTERFERENCE!"

No its not.

Yes it is, if you read other posts. You are spinning now. You responded to a comment of his that said nothing on face guarding, and it was only part of multiple posts regarding the rule on interference. Go back and read. Then you said it was "only in college" which is completely wrong. Then you said having your back to the guy was the same as face guarding which is again wrong. No one said that you had to turn your head for it not to be interference. Its the rule being cited in this case and part of the NFL rules which speak to both a WR and a DB having the right to the ball and if the DB has his head turned it gives him just as much right to the ball so DPI may not be called. In this case, where a guy has his back to the ball, it can be presumed interference if he impedes the WR because he isn't making a play for the ball. So you are wrong. Stop stating false things and then spinning. His response was regarding a post that said there was no contact, which had been disputed. He stated the rule correctly in regards to Hitchens grabbing the TE. Its not college

 

[DogFace]

He already explained the contact in the obvious pictures. He was explaining the rule of not turning your head. But again, you are skipping around and not paying attention. Oh and there is this
''



Paul Schwartz ‏@NYPost_Schwartz Cowboys S Barry Church said he thought Hitchens committed pass interference. "I would've called it,'' he said, and smiled.

Oh that settles it. So for now on we'll go with what players say. Like when Sheilds said it was a clear catch. Ok. Cool.

Turning your head is required if there is contact during the play--in the refs judegement. Not some "fanboys".
The only contact was committed after the jersey grab-not called-then the knocking the hand off the facemask via the arm by Hichens. You conveniently skipped over that part. Or lack the ability to pay attention. It's obvious what you're doing.
Not making sense and ignoring clear visual evidence.

If not. You should try harder to pay attention. You could learn something and it would help you understand and thus enjoy this complicated game that is possibly above your head.

 

[DogFace]

Fans love to complain about bias, but no one can prove that because it involves thought and motive, and no one is a mind reader.

As an baseball umpire, I can tell you that 99.9 percent of the umpires and referees aren't calling plays for teams they like or teams they don't like.

First, if you have a favorite team or you have a relative on a team, you're automatically excluded from umping or reffing your favorite team's game.

Second, when the game is being played, there's really no time to think about being bias. Most of the time, you're just trying to get the call correct. Many of these calls are split-second decisions. You don't have time to think, "Hhhmm, I don't like this team. Let me call it against him."

Now, I WILL say if you're being a behind, you're more likely to not get the benefit of the doubt on certain calls. But that is a premeditated mindset rather than an instantaneous mindset when you have to make a split-decision about a call. The premeditated mindset would more involve personal fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct where a player pushes the edge, and the ref may not give him the benefit of the doubt.

In short, refs - in all likelihood - aren't showing bias, and there's no way to prove it anyway.

But refs CAN and DO make mistakes. I've made mistakes calling balls and strikes and tag outs.
That's part of being human.

I'm sorry but umpiring children in one of the 1000's of leagues and officiating top level grown men in pro sports is completly different in almost every way. Definitely when it comes to having favorite or least favorite teams. Many of these people got into the profession because they are sports fans.

 

[DogFace]

Yes it is, if you read other posts. You are spinning now. You responded to a comment of his that said nothing on face guarding, and it was only part of multiple posts regarding the rule on interference. Go back and read. Then you said it was "only in college" which is completely wrong. Then you said having your back to the guy was the same as face guarding which is again wrong. No one said that you had to turn your head for it not to be interference. Its the rule being cited in this case and part of the NFL rules which speak to both a WR and a DB having the right to the ball and if the DB has his head turned it gives him just as much right to the ball so DPI may not be called. In this case, where a guy has his back to the ball, it can be presumed interference if he impedes the WR because he isn't making a play for the ball. So you are wrong. Stop stating false things and then spinning. His response was regarding a post that said there was no contact, which had been disputed. He stated the rule correctly in regards to Hitchens grabbing the TE. Its not college

In the refs explanation after the game he stated that in the NFL face guarding isn't illegal. You're wrong.
Again. Also, he didn't impede his progress on the poor throw that hit him in the middle of his back. The receiver was running backwards and made no attempt to stop and comeback to the ball. He might've got the call if he had or the ball was thrown better.

 

[DogFace]

Its NOT as you describe. At 2 seconds is when Hitchens is holding his jersey as he goes by...ok. It is right there clear as day. Pause it. That is the hold. Then they start jockeying and that is when you are calling facemask while Hitchens is riding him. Then Hitchens has his hands on his arm and is hitting him before the ball gets there....slo mo confirms this. It's an easy call. The still shots we posted show this. Your video had Pareira calling it throughout. Your scenario for no call ONLY makes sense under the rules if Hutchens turns toward the ball. If he isn't playing the ball, it is a call EVERY time. This is even mentioned in the video and is a legit rule. There is no eye doctor needed. You are wrong, that is all. Even if they call the facemask, the holding and PI with his back to the ball warrant a do over and Lions have the ball.

Also, it is catchable. You are making up a new rule here. It is right at him except a defender on top of him is impeding it..lol. QBs throw at defenders with their back turned all the time and WRs make the catch. In fact it hits the TE in the right hand. How is that not catchable?

You need a rule book, my eyes are fine.

Look man. It is very clear, after the initial hold off within the first five yards, the next contact was Pettigrew grabbing and holding onto his facemask. Not just touching it. Then He smacks his arm away. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm not sure how you can't see it. It's in the last replay angle from Sultans posted video right after they show our coaches yelling. It is before any other contact by Hichens. It really is very very clear to see. I'm not sure how you're getting confused.

I'm still waiting on a late hit close(within .3 of a second) as bad as the no call I posted from the Giants game.

 

[DogFace]

How anyone can see that picture and say Hitchens doesn't touch the receiver or prevent the Lions receiver from catching the ball, there's really nothing else to say. I'm reminded of the saying, "Who you going to believe? Me? Or your lying eyes?"

You're seeing the part where he is shoving his hand via his arm off his facemask.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pet...hUCw2MKHZkzCOIQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=WThETWBuMvxO5M:

 

[DogFace]

Its unreal. Somehow the TE having the hands near his face once negates pulling him from behind and then running right into him with his back turned and head not turned back. It's like talking to my 3 year old and trying to explain it. And I have liked a lot of Sultan's other posts so I'm assuming its a stubborn thing.

Near his facemask. No. He grabbed and kept it there. Watch the last replay. Actually, it's not hard to see how you could miss that after reading more of your posts. I like drinking too. But you shouldn't mix drinking and posting.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pettigrew grabs hitchens mask&client=safari&hl=en&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPuqrQ3fHJAhUCw2MKHZkzCOIQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=WThETWBuMvxO5M:


There's a clear pic. There's more

 

[Beast_from_East]

I know bad calls happen that shouldn't be blamed for the outcomes of games. That wasn't the point of my post as I clearly stated in the first sentence. I was remarking only on the two particularly bad calls in this game that this thread deals with. The first was inexcusable. First they called it a fumble on the field. Then they overruled it as a fumble on the field and said the receiver was down by contact. Then they looked at the video and it was obvious from it that his knee wasn't down and he was losing possession of the ball and they still said he was down. The fact that they overruled the call on the field allowed them the ability to disclaim indisputable evidence because it was close enough to say that his knee could have been down. The same adherence to such a standard was not applied to Dez's catch last year. Instead a bizarre manipulation and interpretation of rules took place to justify the overturn. It is this type of contradictory behavior and dubiousness that leaves open the door to doubt on the motivations of the refs.

I agree that those were bad calls and maybe one of the refs on the field really hates Dallas, not out of the realm of possibility. However, I do not believe there is a league wide conspiracy between the other owners and the referee union to intentionally screw Dallas in every game.

That is tinfoil hat territory..............one or two refs I can buy, but a league wide conspiracy is a bit much.