Another hospital calls CPS on parents who question routine medical procedures

[CowboyMcCoy]

More hospitals seem to need a refresher course on parental rights.
The Sacramento Bee reports that a California couple had Child Protective Services called on them last month when they disagreed with medical personnel at Mercy Hospital in Folsom, Calif., about routine aspects of the baby's care. The parents disagreed with staff about when to give their newborn son his first bath and whether he should be given Vitamin K in a shot or liquid form. They also didn't want the baby's blood drawn. The couple checked him out against medical advice and the hospital called CPS to report the baby was in possible danger. The kicker is that the father of the child, Dr. Daniel Cooper, is a medical doctor and was the hospital's former chief of staff. If anyone was qualified to take care of a newborn and handle any complications that might arise, I would think it would be a doctor.

According to the Bee, the mother, Simone Morin, tried to have a home birth but went to the hospital on April 11 at her husband's insistence when the baby showed signs of stress. According to the couple, the delivery went well and baby Ivan was healthy, but the trouble started when the doctor assigned to Morin's care entered her room after the birth and criticized her decision to have a vaginal delivery instead of a Caesarean section. Morin had required a C-section to have her first child, a 5-year-old daughter, and many doctors say that a C-section is needed for subsequent deliveries, though not everyone agrees that it's always necessary, particularly when the mother is healthy.[1]

[1] http://www.minotdailynews.com/page/...-who-question-routine-medical-procedures.html

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Simply pathetic.

 

[Hoofbite]

I doubt anything on the list prompted the call except checking the baby out against advice.

Probably an SOP thing.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I doubt anything on the list prompted the call except checking the baby out against advice.

Probably an SOP thing.

BS. They said the baby was in possible danger and they new he wasn't.

 

[Bigdog]

I am not saying that this doctor doesn't know how to care for his son but sometimes doctors make mistakes whenit comes to caring for a child. In Boston, CPS was called on a pediatric doctor after she left her 2yr ild in the car while she wwent inside to pick up something at grocery store, She complained that CPS should not have been called since she was only in the store for about a minute and she could see her car the whole time. IIn this case, I think the hsopital was too cautious

 

[notherbob]

This is merely one of a thousand reasons why I no longer trust the corrupt "health care system". If it is a health care system, why do 100,000 people die each year from their treatments? If it were truly a health care system instead of a profit maximizing system, they wouold focus on prevention rather than maximizing the cash flow from each victim of their system.

It is no different than it would be if it were run by organized crime.

About ten years ago there was a herbal treatment for prostate cancer that was producing almost miraculous results so the AMA decided to expose it for the fraud they thought it was by testing it at five or six major cancer hospitals to prove it was a sham but the results were so revolutionary that many doctors declared "We've been treating prostate cancer wrong for the last 50 years and we need to change to this new modality of treatment." Within a month a doctor in California tested the herbal mixture and found that one of the herbs had trace amounts of a natural compound that was the same as one in a prescription drug and instead of requiring prescription for it, the FDA outlawed it completely and put the company making it out of business. In my opinion, there is simply no reason to trust the corrupt FDA.

Bribery and the revolving door of corruption are the way of things in our country today and it doesn't matter which political party or governmental agency we are talking about. The USDA is the same way. Just ask ny of the victims of Monsanto.

 

[Hoofbite]

You understand what SOP is, don't you?

Basically a CYA type of thing to prevent multiple different outcomes between like situations.

Guy takes a newborn who was in distress during birth from the hospital against the advice of the staff.

BS. They said the baby was in possible danger and they new he wasn't.

Being in "possible danger". You can't say whether or not someone actually is IN DANGER or not because nobody has a crystal ball to know the outcome.

And you certainly don't wait until someone actually is in danger to act because it's too late at that point. Not to mention what would happen in the case of no apparent danger resulting in harm. The hospital would be paying for that for decades. So you put these rules in place to make sure every situation of the same basic structure is handled in the same manner that results in the least likelihood of harm.

What if the guy took the kid home and the staff hadn't made the call and complications arose?

The hospital was simply protecting itself in a situation in which they saw a serious possibility of a negative outcome.

 

[Hoofbite]

This is merely one of a thousand reasons why I no longer trust the corrupt "health care system". If it is a health care system, why do 100,000 people die each year from their treatments? If it were truly a health care system instead of a profit maximizing system, they wouold focus on prevention rather than maximizing the cash flow from each victim of their system.

While only saying there are a number of reasons those deaths, with an acquired infection likely being a big player in the mix, the one hitch I see in your scheme theory is that keeping people alive and treating multiple different illnesses over the course of time would result in greater profits in the long run. Dead patients don't pay any bills or develop further illnesses.

A large part of preventative care falls onto the population. Obesity, smoking and other lifestyle decisions are beyond the reach of medicine.

Not to mention it's pretty hard to go the preventative route with the 15% of the population who have little income and no insurance.

It is no different than it would be if it were run by organized crime.

About ten years ago there was a herbal treatment for prostate cancer that was producing almost miraculous results so the AMA decided to expose it for the fraud they thought it was by testing it at five or six major cancer hospitals to prove it was a sham but the results were so revolutionary that many doctors declared "We've been treating prostate cancer wrong for the last 50 years and we need to change to this new modality of treatment." Within a month a doctor in California tested the herbal mixture and found that one of the herbs had trace amounts of a natural compound that was the same as one in a prescription drug and instead of requiring prescription for it, the FDA outlawed it completely and put the company making it out of business. In my opinion, there is simply no reason to trust the corrupt FDA.

Bribery and the revolving door of corruption are the way of things in our country today and it doesn't matter which political party or governmental agency we are talking about. The USDA is the same way. Just ask ny of the victims of Monsanto.

I'd like to hear more about this piece if you have some links.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

You understand what SOP is, don't you?

Basically a CYA type of thing to prevent multiple different outcomes between like situations.

Guy takes a newborn who was in distress during birth from the hospital against the advice of the staff.


Being in "possible danger". You can't say whether or not someone actually is IN DANGER or not because nobody has a crystal ball to know the outcome.

And you certainly don't wait until someone actually is in danger to act because it's too late at that point. Not to mention what would happen in the case of no apparent danger resulting in harm. The hospital would be paying for that for decades. So you put these rules in place to make sure every situation of the same basic structure is handled in the same manner that results in the least likelihood of harm.

What if the guy took the kid home and the staff hadn't made the call and complications arose?

The hospital was simply protecting itself in a situation in which they saw a serious possibility of a negative outcome.

Oh for the love of God.


The kicker is that the father of the child, Dr. Daniel Cooper, is a medical doctor and was the hospital's former chief of staff.



They were arguing over a bath and whether to give him a shot or liquid. So yes, I call BS.

 

[notherbob]

Google PC SPES and read all the articles.

My personal experince with it was through my father-ion-law who was discovered to have stage 4 prostate cancer in the late 1990s. He went to mainstream doctors and they told him he probably had about six months to live and they put him on Lupron depot, a six month under the skin medication among other things. In a few weeks he lost weight and muscle mass and grew weaker and weaker until all he could do was to lay on the couch barely able to walk except with help and a walker.

We watched him shrivel up and at the end of six months when was scrawny and totally devoid of energy and could only get from the bed to the couch with someone pushing him in a wheelchair.

His PC had spread into his bones and it was only a matter of time before he would die a horrible death from bone cancer with his bones swelling up and bursting and we wanted to try to restore his health and vigor so he could eventually die from some unrelated cause. hopefully a heart attack or something quick.

He was due for another Lupron injection, we said no and started treating him with our own ideas, including PC Spes and human growth hormones and garlic, basically the opposite of what the doctors recommended.

He began regaining the weight he had lost and getting more energy and in a few weeks he was back on his feet and managing his ranch again and over the next few months he was out riding in roundup and working with his cattle and he became a hard working cattleman again and he regained his muscle mass and strength and lived for two more years until he became weak after roundup one day and we took him to the hostital where he was diagnosed with pleural effusion, a complication of long term exposure to pesticides and he passed away from his lungs filling up with fluid a few days later. We had succeeded in saving him from death by bone cancer.

Had I known then what I know now I could probably have reversed the metastasis by rubbing him down with garlic oil and giving him garlic water baths but I did not learn these things until after he died.

The AMA will say that PC Spes was adulterated with prescription drugs and had to be removed from the market but those were natural compounds from the herbs. They do not deny its effectiveness; however. The truth is they wanted to get it off the market because it was embarrasing the medical industry and eating into profits.

If you will notice, even though it worked, big pharma has still not come up with anything that works nearly as well and they went back to business as usual. If you will read the links you get by Googling PC Spes, it will list the herbs involved and just add garlic to the list. A couple of months ago, I posted about a woman who had a lump growing in her breast for two years and it had gotten to the size of a ping pong ball. After using the garlic oil and garlic water soaks, it went away completely in six weeks, astounding her doctor but not me - I expected it.

I may not be doctor but I have a pretty good understanding of how garlic used in different ways has different effects on the human body but do not expect big med to adopt any of these treatments anytime soon. Since I don't charge any money or diagnose or treat any patients but only talk about garlic in general terms and let people decide for themselves what to do, they cannot get me for practicing medicine because I'm not.

It's a free country and people can talk about garlic if they want to and people are free to try it if they want to. You are OK as long as you don't mind talking for free and not making any money.

When my time is up and I go back where I came from I hope to leave a legacy of having helped people and maybe people will say that I wasn't all bad and that I helped more people than I hurt. That ain't asking much, I don't think. I have learned some unique things about garlic and all I want to do is pass on my knowledge to anyone who is willing to listen and research it for themselves.

Good luck to you.

 

[Hoofbite]

Oh for the love of God.


The kicker is that the father of the child, Dr. Daniel Cooper, is a medical doctor and was the hospital's former chief of staff.



They were arguing over a bath and whether to give him a shot or liquid. So yes, I call BS.

Feel free to focus on the trivial all you want, the premise of the situation is that a man took an infant from the hospital against the advice of the medical staff.

12 hours after birth, in fact.

Him being a doctor himself is irrelevant if standard policy would result in the same action were he not a doctor.

Also, him being a doctor didn't mean anything when he decided he couldn't handle a potential serious issue at home. He realized the situation was beyond his comfort level in that setting and went to the hospital.

Lastly, so long as the baby is under the care of a doctor who isn't it's father, that doctor has an obligation to act in a manner that he/she believes is in the best interest of the child, regardless of who the father is. It's their *** on the line should something turn out less than ideal.

You can think it's ridiculous all you want but bad publicity over something like this is the trade off that many organizations take in order to protect themselves from potential repercussions down the road.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Oh for the love of God.


The kicker is that the father of the child, Dr. Daniel Cooper, is a medical doctor and was the hospital's former chief of staff.



They were arguing over a bath and whether to give him a shot or liquid. So yes, I call BS.

It seems like if you read that, you'd not make an argument that the hospital did the right thing....

 

[burmafrd]

hoof frankly its people with your attitude that allows hospitals and others to become what they have.

First do no harm. They and you seem to have forgotten that.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

It seems like if you read that, you'd not make an argument that the hospital did the right thing....

You'd think that but there are people who think others know what's best for kid than you do. They have a very natcicistic view of the establishment whatever that establishment may be.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

You'd think that but there are people who think others know what's best for kid than you do. They have a very natcicistic view of the establishment whatever that establishment may be.

Yeah, they think they know what's best for your kid. For heaven's sake, there are all kinds of drugs they don't test for in donor milk. Cow milk is pasteurized and it still has undesirable elements just from what we KNOW they put in it.

I didn't want my daughter having donor breast milk because I didn't know where it came from. I wanted to talk to a doctor about using formula and stimulating my wife's breast myself. A google search, while waiting for the doctor, gave me this as at least an option.

No medical staff could assist me at any point in time. They had a person from billing holding my daughter saying that breast milk was better, no matter what.

Bear in mind, this is my kid. I was up for 60 hours for a natural labor. We saw medical staff shifts come and go. Everyone knew we were upbeat, then they started with the donor stuff. Which I never signed, which is at least some basis for legal action, since I am the parent.

But that's for another day--

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

hoof frankly its people with your attitude that allows hospitals and others to become what they have.

First do no harm. They and you seem to have forgotten that.

Amen, brother.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I am not saying that this doctor doesn't know how to care for his son but sometimes doctors make mistakes whenit comes to caring for a child. In Boston, CPS was called on a pediatric doctor after she left her 2yr ild in the car while she wwent inside to pick up something at grocery store, She complained that CPS should not have been called since she was only in the store for about a minute and she could see her car the whole time. IIn this case, I think the hsopital was too cautious

Red Herring.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Google PC SPES and read all the articles.

My personal experince with it was through my father-ion-law who was discovered to have stage 4 prostate cancer in the late 1990s. He went to mainstream doctors and they told him he probably had about six months to live and they put him on Lupron depot, a six month under the skin medication among other things. In a few weeks he lost weight and muscle mass and grew weaker and weaker until all he could do was to lay on the couch barely able to walk except with help and a walker.

We watched him shrivel up and at the end of six months when was scrawny and totally devoid of energy and could only get from the bed to the couch with someone pushing him in a wheelchair.

His PC had spread into his bones and it was only a matter of time before he would die a horrible death from bone cancer with his bones swelling up and bursting and we wanted to try to restore his health and vigor so he could eventually die from some unrelated cause. hopefully a heart attack or something quick.

He was due for another Lupron injection, we said no and started treating him with our own ideas, including PC Spes and human growth hormones and garlic, basically the opposite of what the doctors recommended.

He began regaining the weight he had lost and getting more energy and in a few weeks he was back on his feet and managing his ranch again and over the next few months he was out riding in roundup and working with his cattle and he became a hard working cattleman again and he regained his muscle mass and strength and lived for two more years until he became weak after roundup one day and we took him to the hostital where he was diagnosed with pleural effusion, a complication of long term exposure to pesticides and he passed away from his lungs filling up with fluid a few days later. We had succeeded in saving him from death by bone cancer.

Had I known then what I know now I could probably have reversed the metastasis by rubbing him down with garlic oil and giving him garlic water baths but I did not learn these things until after he died.

The AMA will say that PC Spes was adulterated with prescription drugs and had to be removed from the market but those were natural compounds from the herbs. They do not deny its effectiveness; however. The truth is they wanted to get it off the market because it was embarrasing the medical industry and eating into profits.

If you will notice, even though it worked, big pharma has still not come up with anything that works nearly as well and they went back to business as usual. If you will read the links you get by Googling PC Spes, it will list the herbs involved and just add garlic to the list. A couple of months ago, I posted about a woman who had a lump growing in her breast for two years and it had gotten to the size of a ping pong ball. After using the garlic oil and garlic water soaks, it went away completely in six weeks, astounding her doctor but not me - I expected it.

I may not be doctor but I have a pretty good understanding of how garlic used in different ways has different effects on the human body but do not expect big med to adopt any of these treatments anytime soon. Since I don't charge any money or diagnose or treat any patients but only talk about garlic in general terms and let people decide for themselves what to do, they cannot get me for practicing medicine because I'm not.

It's a free country and people can talk about garlic if they want to and people are free to try it if they want to. You are OK as long as you don't mind talking for free and not making any money.

When my time is up and I go back where I came from I hope to leave a legacy of having helped people and maybe people will say that I wasn't all bad and that I helped more people than I hurt. That ain't asking much, I don't think. I have learned some unique things about garlic and all I want to do is pass on my knowledge to anyone who is willing to listen and research it for themselves.

Good luck to you.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/pc-spes/Patient/page1

It's always good to hear from you brother Bob. I feel like I can call you that even if you are my elder....

 

[basstapp]

I agree that this is completely ridiculous, but in some cases you wish that something could be done. I know at the hospital I work at, that some families have declined a blood transfusion to save a child's life because it was against their religion. It is not an uncommon situation in extremely diverse areas like Atlanta

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I agree that this is completely ridiculous, but in some cases you wish that something could be done. I know at the hospital I work at, that some families have declined a blood transfusion to save a child's life because it was against their religion. It is not an uncommon situation in extremely diverse areas like Atlanta

I signed the papers for a blood transfusion if it was necessary; the donor breast milk is a totally different situation, as are a lot of "routine" procedures.