Another Roy Williams thread...

[Idgit]

I like Adam and usually agree with him. He is wrong on this one, period. I can watch it over and over on the tivo until I'm blue in the face and won't defend Williams on this one. I agree that the DL was awful, but Roy was no better on run defense this game.

De gustibus non est disputandum. Enjoy your meal, Adam. I'll go visit one of the fresher flat-earther threads about our defensive collapse, then.[SIZE=+2][/SIZE]

 

[Smith22]

De gustibus non est disputandum. Enjoy your meal, Adam. I'll go visit one of the fresher flat-earther threads about our defensive collapse, then.

Nice contribution to the thread. Do you have tivo? a VCR? How about your thoughts on these plays?

 

[AdamJT13]

1st quarter, 9:40 mark.
Big run up the middle, Roy gets plowed by OL, Hamlin makes the tackle.

Roy was the left-side deep safety (offense's left), and the run went behind the right tackle. Roy got blocked by an offensive lineman. Hamlin didn't get blocked at all. Roy certainly wasn't "out of position" or "lost" on that play, and he certainly wasn't to blame on that run. Blame Ayodele and James for completely overrunning the play, or blame Ellis for pitter-patting down the line of scrimmage when he was completely unblocked.

1st quarter, 8:17 mark.
Roy makes up a lot of ground, then gets lost in the middle of the pile, stutters, then kind of throws his hands out like he going for the horse collar, then he just stops and doesn't make a play. hamlin again with the tackle. Hamlin was at least 15-20 yards off the LOS to start the play. Roy was 5 yards off the LOS to start the play.

Roy was lined up as the right-side safety (offense's right), and the run went behind the left guard and further to the left downfield (away from Roy). Roy pursued it across the field and got in on the tackle. Again, he wasn't "lost" or "out of position."

1st quarter, 7:40 mark.
Roy lines up on the left of the Detroit offense. He gets caught flat footed and doesn't touch one player. He just turns, chases and watches TJ fly by him.

I already said what happened on that play in a previous post. Roy had the outside run gap, and three guys blew their gap inside -- right where Duckett ran. By all means, let's not blame the guy who whiffed on the tackle at the line of scrimmage or the two guys who couldn't beat their man. Let's blame the guy who wasn't even supposed to be in the middle.

 

[Idgit]

Nice contribution to the thread. Do you have tivo? a VCR? How about your thoughts on these plays?

My thoughts are that the thread is idiotic. That these threads detract from the value of the board, not add to it. That wasn't clear?

 

[Daudr]

Roy was the left-side deep safety (offense's left), and the run went behind the right tackle. Roy got blocked by an offensive lineman. Hamlin didn't get blocked at all. Roy certainly wasn't "out of position" or "lost" on that play, and he certainly wasn't to blame on that run. Blame Ayodele and James for completely overrunning the play, or blame Ellis for pitter-patting down the line of scrimmage when he was completely unblocked.



Roy was lined up as the right-side safety (offense's right), and the run went behind the left guard and further to the left downfield (away from Roy). Roy pursued it across the field and got in on the tackle. Again, he wasn't "lost" or "out of position."




I already said what happened on that play in a previous post. Roy had the outside run gap, and three guys blew their gap inside -- right where Jones ran. By all means, let's not blame the guy who whiffed on the tackle at the line of scrimmage or the two guys who couldn't beat their man. Let's blame the guy who wasn't even supposed to be in the middle.

Once again, some $%@ people see Roy around at the end of a play and ASSUME (I'm sure you've heard what happens when you do that) that it was his fault.

 

[Smith22]

Adam, as I said earlier, the DL played awful. NO ONE is going to argue that.
That being said, safeties are there for the next line of defense. The play isn't over just because the DL got manhandled. On the plays mentioned, Roy was much closer to the LOS while Hamlin was about 15 yards back.

 

[Smith22]

My thoughts are that the thread is idiotic. That these threads detract from the value of the board, not add to it. That wasn't clear?

Did someone force you to read it?

 

[AdamJT13]

On the 32 yard TD by TJ, Roy is again close to the LOS while Hamlin is back 15 yards off the LOS.

What does that have to do with anything? If you're close to the line of scrimmage and they're running toward a different part of the field, you're going to be in WORSE position to make the play than if you were 15 yards downfield. Do you want your strong safety playing 15 yards downfield all of the time?

 

[AdamJT13]

That being said, safeties are there for the next line of defense. The play isn't over just because the DL got manhandled.

If the line gets manhandled and the inside linebackers don't make the tackle and you have only one safety deep, exactly who is left to make the play? It's either someone coming from another part of the field, the deep safety or nobody. But of all of the people on the field, you blame the guy on another part of the field for not being somewhere he's not supposed to be?

 

[Idgit]

Did someone force you to read it?

I chose to read it, because I didn't want to miss the chance to proclaim it idiotic. The downward social pressure on bad topics and beating the wrong dead horses is good for everybody.

 

[Smith22]

What does that have to do with anything? If you're close to the line of scrimmage and they're running toward a different part of the field, you're going to be in WORSE position to make the play than if you were 15 yards downfield. Do you want your strong safety playing 15 yards downfield all of the time?

TJ is at the 32, where the DL was blown off the ball, when Roy is on our 29, and Roy is facing in towards the play. At the 27 1/2, TJ is about a half step ahead of Roy. Hamlin surely couldn't have made the play from where he lined up. So, either Roy is to blame along with the DL (main culprit), or it was an awful defensive call or a great run call by the Lions. I mean, unless we enjoy running defensive calls that take our safeties out of the run game?

 

[Hoofbite]

I guess the general consensus about roy is:

If hes not personally responsible for stopping the play, hes damn sure personally responsible for letting it happen.

Unbelievable.

 

[AdamJT13]

So, either Roy is to blame along with the DL (main culprit), or it was an awful defensive call or a great run call by the Lions.

No, you can blame the defensive line (specifically, Canty whiffing on the tackle in the backfield) and the inside linebackers. It's not an "awful" defensive call, it's just a call that expects players to do their jobs.

I mean, unless we enjoy running defensive calls that take our safeties out of the run game?

And I assume by "out of the run game" you mean not having both of them 15 yards downfield just in case the running back breaks free right up the middle.

What, exactly, do you think Roy's run responsibility was on that play?

 

[Smith22]

What, exactly, do you think Roy's run responsibility was on that play?

Outside containment, then help with the play once it went inside.

and for the 10,000,000th time I said the DL was awful.

 

[AdamJT13]

Outside containment, then help with the play once it went inside.

So, you expect Roy to be in two different places within a split second? How can he contain a run on the outside and stop a running back bursting free up the middle? That's like expecting Newman to cover a slot receiver running a slant and an outside receiver running a 6-yard curl on the same play.

and for the 10,000,000th time I said the DL was awful.

Yeah, and you tried to blame "Roy along with the DL." I blame the DL and the inside linebackers. I don't blame Roy at all on that play.

 

[Hoofbite]

So, you expect Roy to be in two different places within a split second? How can he contain a run on the outside and stop a running back bursting free up the middle? That's like expecting Newman to cover a slot receiver running a slant and an outside receiver running a 6-yard curl on the same play.



Yeah, and you tried to blame "Roy along with the DL." I blame the DL and the inside linebackers. I don't blame Roy at all on that play.

I went over to NFL.com to watch the play and theres really nothing Roy could have done. Duckett was barely touched at all. The only way Roy has a chance to make the play is if he pisses on his assignment and fills the middle to start.

Just a play where people see him in a trailing position at the end of it and start hopping all over on their........

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I have to agree with adam on this one. No way a player that has outside contain can be expected to fill in the middle. To even start to blame roy on that TD run is just stupid. He is not perfect by any stretch but this thread is really reaching to push an I hate Roy agenda.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

He almost seems like a different player.Its either mental or his football skills are diminshing which is understandable due to the high skill level required.

Its because he went soft after finding Jesus....

 

[zrinkill]

What a ridiculous thread -- another in the long line of "Roy was on the field, let's blame him for everything" posts.

 

[Clove]

Oh I remember the good old days when receivers used to fear coming over the middle against the Cowboys. I want those days back.