Anybody hear Wilbon ...

[joseephuss]

White and black quarterbacks are all criticized for their shortcomings (well, maybe other than Brett Favre LOL).

Peyton Manning has long carried the label of being unable to win big games. Jake Plummer has always been considered erratic. Brian Griese as unreliable, often being (jokingly?) referred to as a 'drunk' because of some of his past behaviors; Kerry Collins, too, for that matter.

Criticizing Vick's inability to consistently throw the ball is no different. It's a weakness. Like Manning's weakness, he has done enough to show that he is competent and can win games; but still, it's a weakness that lingers until proven wrong.

And despite Vick claiming he proved his doubters wrong, one 220-yard passing effort is not the vindication he should be desiring.

Plummer is erratic.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

And despite Vick claiming he proved his doubters wrong, one 220-yard passing effort is not the vindication he should be desiring.

That was hilarious... "I passed for 226 yards, so I don't want to ever have to answer the question again that I can't be a pocket passer." :laugh2:

 

[Chuck 54]

No big deal....blasting Vick for not doing a better job in the passing game is stupid to begin with. It's just like blasting Peyton Manning for not winning the SB.

NO matter how great Peyton passes the ball or how many TD's he throws, until he wins a SB, the knock on him will be that he's not a great pressure game QB.

No matter how many games the FAlcons win behind Vick's running/passing and how many games they lose with a more traditional passer in the game in his place, until Vick wins a SB, he'll always be the running QB who doesn't throw well-enough.

Both are stupid shots at great QB's who win games for their teams, but we will attack any QB who hasn't won the big game for something.

This is not a black/white issue, just as attacking Manning is not a black/white issue....it's about guys who see a supposedly great QB who hasn't won the SB and acting like they know what the hell they're talking about by finding fault with something about him to explain why he can't win it all.

Lucky thing Favre got his 1 SB trophy or all we'd hear about him is that he's a great gunslinger of a QB who takes too many risks and throws too many INT's because he plays out of control, so he'll never win the big one.

Even the great Dallas Cowboys behind Tom Landry were the team that couldn't win the big one, just as the Buffalo Bills had something terribly wrong with them for going to the SB 4 years in a row and not winning any.

It's stupid and shortsighted and arrogant, but it's not racial.

 

[Doomsday101]

I didn't hear Wilbon's comments, so I don't know the context of his statements. I don't think that race is the biggest issue with people's impressions of Vick, but I do think that race plays a small part in evaluating Vick. I don't think it plays a big part or matters to the vast marjority of fans; however, I do think there is a small(and I emphasize the small) percentage of people who factor in Vick's race when they evaluate him as an NFL QB.

There is always a small percentage of people that can't see past skin color and it goes both ways.

There are a few that will never like Vick because he is black. They also don't like McNair, McNabb or Culpepper. Their racial hatred effects their ability to evaluate from a pure football standpoint. That is why they will lump these QBs all into the same category such as they are all running QBs. That is obviously not the case. These four QBs have very distinctive and different QB styles from each other, yet because they are black, they all play the same.

There are also a few that can't see anything wrong with Vick because he is black. They can't be critical of him at all, but if he were white, it would be easy to crticize him.

To me it is obvious. Vick is the product of the hype machine. He is hyped so much that some people get tired of seeing him. They hope he fails so the media stops hyping him. Same with Peyton Manning. That is why people hate the Yankees, the Lakers and the Cowboys.

I would agree there will always be a small portion who judge people on skin but by and large I don't think race plays a part what so ever. Fact is if Vick has to rely on his arm to get the job done he has shown a lot of weakness in that area of the game and considering he is a QB I would consider that a big part of being a NFL QB. His ability to run is up there with the best RB in the league but white or black does not change anything about his lack of talent when it comes to passing the ball. Also when it comes to critics of QB just as many white QB's get slammed and no one pulls the damn race card on those conversation and that is part of what hacks me off. A white QB is fair game but you question a black QB and now you’re a racist?

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Dude, I know you are a philly homer, but you can't believe all of that.

I do! Here's my source (take that into consideration, but I believe the source)...

I arrived home from work yesterday and stopped to pay off my neighbor (the source).

Background: My neighbor played for the NBA and had to retire due to an injury (for confidentiality, I will Not reveal his name). I'm average height; he's 6'10, I drive a Linclon Navigator; he drives a Cadillac Escalade, I belong a fraternity; he belongs to a different fraternity, ...and finally, he is a Commanders fan ...

Alright, I told you all that because, this guy had no reason to lie to me. He goes on to tell me that an NBA buddy in Philly called him on the phone and was told by one of the guards that works in the Eagles locker room ...

that T.O. was in the whirl pool when Hugh Douglas can in and announced that " some of you &&%%...or whatevers are faking injuries and should be out on the field practicing." When T.O. heard that, he rushed out of the whirl pool, put on some draws and his tennis shoes, and started to beat up Hugh Douglas.
When he finished with Hugh, he confronted McNabb and others on the team to bring it if they wanted some of him. I was told that you could hear a Pin drop ...oh, and hugh Douglas is twice T.O. s size.

I'm convinced that this could have been worse for the team and for T.O. But one thing is certain, T.O. is as tough as they come. But he is no longer an Eagle problem.

You don't have to be a Homer to recognize someone that is detrimental to McNabb and the entire ball club.

 

[viman96]

Anybody hear Wilbon say that when people question Vick's ability to pass it is a racial thing ?

He went on to say that if a blonde haired white guy won games but didn't pass well he would be a hero.

Steve Young was hung out to dry for running.

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

Hey I just look at a ball player as a ball player and race just plays no part in it for me. I freely admit without Vick Atlanta suffers because he is such a great athlete but I think Atlanta will continue to struggle to make it to the SB as long as Vick struggles with the passing game.

Sound, healthy view -- I'm good with that.

 

[Givincer]

Anybody hear Wilbon say that when people question Vick's ability to pass it is a racial thing ?

He went on to say that if a blonde haired white guy won games but didn't pass well he would be a hero.

That is such a load of bs people criticize his passing because he is inaccurate. They don't criticize his arm he has a rocket ffs what they criticize is his passing ability which has been pretty atrocius thus far in his career. It doesn't matter as much though because he is still just as effective as the great quarterbacks who throw for over 7ypa he runs for 7ypa so every time he drops back to pass he can run for 7ypa which is still effective - maybe even more effective than a great passing game.

If a blond haired white guy was running around and doing the things michael vick was doing and passing the way michael vick has passed thus far in his career they would rip his passing ability just as bad. I don't think people really rip on mike vick's passing ability that much anyhow everbody realizes how effective he is as far as an overall part of the team. He may not throw up great passing numbers but it doesn't matter as far as being effective goes in his case or any guy's case no matter their color.

 

[lurkercowboy]

Wilbon. The Bizarro World Rush.

 

[slick325]

I want people to stop insinuating racisam because you may not share the opinion that Vick is a great QB.

It is not a difficult concept.

I can agree with you on that.

 

[Eddie]

Michael Vick, Michael Vick,
He so fast, He so quick
He run like a horse, He throw like a Jet
I just tellin you this so you'se won't fugget
Michael Vick is Superman without a cape
He liftin weights, He in incredible shape
It's not black or white or green or blue
Michael Vick is comin here to sock it to you!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Where's the little icon where the little guy is blowing chunks?

 

[Natedawg44]

When Vick plays the Falcons win. Everything else doesn't matter. Numbers this numbers that Who gives a crap they win. Vick is 31-16 as a starter. They are 9-19 when Vick doesn't play. How do you like those stats.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

When Vick plays the Falcons win. Everything else doesn't matter. Numbers this numbers that Who gives a crap they win. Vick is 31-16 as a starter. They are 9-19 when Vick doesn't play. How do you like those stats.

When you show me the stat that speaks to championships, then I'll pay serious attention. Until that happens, it's of little value IMO. That's the way it works.

 

[joseephuss]

When you show me the stat that speaks to championships, then I'll pay serious attention. Until that happens, it's of little value IMO. That's the way it works.

So you don't like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Danny White, Craig Morton or Don Meredith?

 

[jay cee]

No big deal....blasting Vick for not doing a better job in the passing game is stupid to begin with. It's just like blasting Peyton Manning for not winning the SB.

NO matter how great Peyton passes the ball or how many TD's he throws, until he wins a SB, the knock on him will be that he's not a great pressure game QB.

No matter how many games the FAlcons win behind Vick's running/passing and how many games they lose with a more traditional passer in the game in his place, until Vick wins a SB, he'll always be the running QB who doesn't throw well-enough.

Both are stupid shots at great QB's who win games for their teams, but we will attack any QB who hasn't won the big game for something.

This is not a black/white issue, just as attacking Manning is not a black/white issue....it's about guys who see a supposedly great QB who hasn't won the SB and acting like they know what the hell they're talking about by finding fault with something about him to explain why he can't win it all.
Lucky thing Favre got his 1 SB trophy or all we'd hear about him is that he's a great gunslinger of a QB who takes too many risks and throws too many INT's because he plays out of control, so he'll never win the big one.

Even the great Dallas Cowboys behind Tom Landry were the team that couldn't win the big one, just as the Buffalo Bills had something terribly wrong with them for going to the SB 4 years in a row and not winning any.

It's stupid and shortsighted and arrogant, but it's not racial.

This is by far the post of the day. Thank you Wayne. Especially for the paragraph that I highlighted.

 

[jay cee]

So you don't like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Danny White, Craig Morton or Don Meredith?

Yeah, he'd take Jim Plunkett and Trent Dilfer over all those guys.

 

[dbair1967]

When Vick plays the Falcons win. Everything else doesn't matter. Numbers this numbers that Who gives a crap they win. Vick is 31-16 as a starter. They are 9-19 when Vick doesn't play. How do you like those stats.

they were 9-19 because he missed basically one whole season there and the defense that one year was absolutely atrocious...had he played all 16 games they'd have still been blown out of those games

on the other hand the two years they did make the playoffs, they were near the top of the league in sacks and forced turnovers, and Vick had nothing to do with either of those numbers...

David

 

[trickblue]

they were 9-19 because he missed basically one whole season there and the defense that one year was absolutely atrocious...had he played all 16 games they'd have still been blown out of those games

on the other hand the two years they did make the playoffs, they were near the top of the league in sacks and forced turnovers, and Vick had nothing to do with either of those numbers...

David

DID TOO DID TOO!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So you don't like Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Danny White, Craig Morton or Don Meredith?

Like em all Jossie. Just don't believe the criteria fits the discussion here. Don Meredith was good, Bart Starr is in the HOF. Danny White was good, Ron Jaworski won a championship and is on TV every nite. Craig Morton was good, Roger Staubach is the guy most of us believe was the best. Dan Marino, statistically, is the most prolific QB ever. Joe Montana is widely considered the best to ever play the game. The jury is still out on Peyton, and I do believe that he is going to win one this year, but until he does win it, I don't want to hear about him either. However, if he fails to win one, he will never be viewed in the same light as Brady.

You play the game to win championships. Everything else is 1st loser. Just the way I see it.