Anyone use the Google Play Music service?

[YosemiteSam]

Electrical engineer. And you?

I'm in IT.

So, let me ask you. What if you went to work and worked all week, then your customer (or employer) decided he preferred you to work for free and didn't pay you for your work?

How would you feel? Or better yet, how would you pay your rent (mortgage) and feed your family?

 

[Denim Chicken]

I'm in IT.

So, let me ask you. What if you went to work and worked all week, then your customer (or employer) decided he preferred you to work for free and didn't pay you for your work?

How would you feel? Or better yet, how would you pay your rent (mortgage) and feed your family?

Yes, we wouldn't want these guys to have trouble paying their mortgages: Stop stealing from Kanye!

 

[Denim Chicken]

i would do that also. however, if you want to take this lovely comparison to the extreme limit - it would mean you need a cassette and crappy source and do it how many million times? you couldn't put a cassette online back then and have 1 person copy/download 3,000,000 songs. you had to make 3,000,000 tapes and now we're back to the cost of crap again, right? so you're cherry picking in this analogy and avoiding the crux of the issue.

and i'll flat out say it - in my mind you're a piece of crap because by NOT paying artists for their work, we're now in the situation we are in. no music, sales are pathetic at best, and classic rock is outselling new by a large margin.

companies like spotify can make billions and the artists are still underpaid.

no one is asking you to spend $15-$20 on a CD that only has 2-3 songs on it anymore. just to show a decent amount of respect fo what you obviously find value in and pay the artists so they can continue creating something you obviously enjoy.

but no. when you steal it, options go down, potential future classic rock songs never see the light of day cause the writer had to go into fast food mgt to make a living and so on.

i know for a fact that if i could steal your work for free, just because i could and seemingly no cost or responsibility to me, you'd be a tad upset with it because you could no longer make a living at it.

but i'm sure that's different.

sorry - but you're an *** to me by not only stealing but moreso for not caring that you do it.

ICE, you can argue morality with some merit. But, the state of the music industry has little to do with piracy.

 

[iceberg]

ICE, you can argue morality with some merit. But, the state of the music industry has little to do with piracy.

you're right. there must be another reason sales are down as much as they are. it's a circle cause/effect to me. you don't buy music anymore, there's less $. there's less $, the payout is less, the payout is less, less people do it.

apple is getting out of the music download business because sales are so slow.

classic music sales outpaces new music sales. by a LONGSHOT if you remove adele.

lables used to develop up and coming artists because the $ would be there in the backend, either for them or the artist. that was a different fight but they money was there. the simple fact of the matter is the money isn't there like it used to be.

streaming music and technology has also changed how people listen to music but people not paying for it, via streaming or through more traditional means, is simply putting the industry on it's ***.

if you want to think piracy isn't playing a part of that go ahead. my only request is that in the future discussion of musicians and artists, please leave kayne out of it.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yes, we wouldn't want these guys to have trouble paying their mortgages: Stop stealing from Kanye!

Sure he is loaded, not all artists are. Some you are stealing food out of their kids mouths.

Though, theft based on someone's net worth is still theft. You're still guilty and can still be punished. I suggest water boarding.

 

[Denim Chicken]

“The music business is mostly run by feckless idiots, who do not subscribe to the normal tenets of capitalism … It’s run by thiefdoms, way behind the times technologically — the tech world is just blowing music out of the world — but music artists remain incredibly valuable to launch this, hence companies keep cycling back to music artists and music artists need to figure out their true value in a free-market society, which they’ve been slow to do because you have that old model of telling artists that they are not worth anything. They are disposable.”... “The future of music is in brand identification, music will only be the lubricant to make the bigger deal. The old model of selling plastic is over.” -Billy Corgan

"I think it’s a good idea because it’s people trading music. It has nothing to do with industry or finance, it’s just people that want music and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the same as someone turning on the ******* radio, it’s the same as someone putting a cassette in a cassette deck when the BBC plays a special radio session. I don’t think it’s a crime, it’s been going on for years. It’s the same as people making tapes for each other. The industry is more threatened by it because it’s the worldwide web and it’s a broader scope of trading, but I don’t think it’s such a ******* horrible thing. The first thing we should do is get all the ******* millionaires to shut their mouths, stop *****ing about the 25 cents a time they’re losing." -Dave Grohl

"Download is the same as I did: I used to tape-record the songs, the successes that I liked on the radio. I do not care. I hate seeing all these rock stars complaining. At least they are downloading your music ******* idiot, and they are paying attention to you. Do you know? You should appreciate that. What are you complaining? You have 5 huge houses, so just shut up."-- Liam Gallagher

"It doesn't affect me because I look at the internet as the new radio. I look at the radio as gone. [...] Piracy is the new radio. That's how music gets around. [...] That's the radio. If you really want to hear it, let's make it available, let them hear it, let them hear the 95 percent of it."--Neil Young

 

[Denim Chicken]

you're right. there must be another reason sales are down as much as they are. it's a circle cause/effect to me. you don't buy music anymore, there's less $. there's less $, the payout is less, the payout is less, less people do it.

apple is getting out of the music download business because sales are so slow.

classic music sales outpaces new music sales. by a LONGSHOT if you remove adele.

lables used to develop up and coming artists because the $ would be there in the backend, either for them or the artist. that was a different fight but they money was there. the simple fact of the matter is the money isn't there like it used to be.

streaming music and technology has also changed how people listen to music but people not paying for it, via streaming or through more traditional means, is simply putting the industry on it's ***.

if you want to think piracy isn't playing a part of that go ahead. my only request is that in the future discussion of musicians and artists, please leave kayne out of it.

The dig is, no one is pirating music from the struggling artist. Its the popular music that gets downloaded. You have to "make it" before anyone is interested in stealing your music and by that time your doing fine off tours and the like.

The record labels are the parties who have traditionally mistreated artist and they are the people concerned about piracy not the artists. The stuff on the radio is crap bc the labels have decided what people want to hear and tailor find bands and mold them to fit--it has nothing to do with money not being there.

 

[iceberg]

1) it is run by idiots or technology would not have caught them with their pants down. now, are you saying since they are idiots it's ok to steal from them? content is still the key and today content - ie the artists - are still being taken advantage of by NOT being paid. even if it was crap payment in the 80s and 90s, it was still payment. where are their mouths coming from and count the millionaire artists today as we had in the 80s/90s please.

2) and we can also stop pretending all musicians are all whiney millionaires. most i know would be happy making $60k a year or a livable wage doing it. even that is tough to do and since sales, the one facet of revenue an indie artist could rely on - is gone. the technology for stealing a millionaires song is the same as a poor mans. so let's not pretend it only "hurts" rich because once you've justified stealing, you will be easily able to do it again.

3) so again, we pick on the rich and pretend that what, 1%, is normal and not the extreme? i wish people thinking all musicians were rich would just "shut up".

4) internet has been the new radio for a long time. i declared CD's dead years before most. wheee. i've also been streaming internet radio since 2000 so it's not like i have zero experience or no artists i know struggling to live, much less have 5 houses.

give me more quotes. it's still theft and it's still killing the industry because the theft has gotten so easy people don't even see it as theft anymore.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Sure he is loaded, not all artists are. Some you are stealing food out of their kids mouths.

Though, theft based on someone's net worth is still theft. You're still guilty and can still be punished. I suggest water boarding.

No one is stealing from artists they haven't heard from.

 

[iceberg]

The dig is, no one is pirating music from the struggling artist. Its the popular music that gets downloaded. You have to "make it" before anyone is interested in stealing your music and by that time your doing fine off tours and the like.

The record labels are the parties who have traditionally mistreated artist and they are the people concerned about piracy not the artists. The stuff on the radio is crap bc the labels have decided what people want to hear and tailor find bands and mold them to fit--it has nothing to do with money not being there.

how many bands do you want me to give you that people ARE downloading their music for free?

marshal dutton, new singer for hinder. i knew him when he was in faktion and they just got signed to roadrunner records. we had a HUGE party at curtain club in dallas my radio station sponsored. we paid the promo, posters, guarantees for the band, i followed up on incorrect news out there about the band because they had no one else - these guys got to be great friends of mine. one of the things marshal said while we were talking still sits with me today. faktion and RR paid a TON to produce their record. and as they went from show to show he'd have hundreds of fans come up and say MAN I DOWNLOADED YOUR MUSIC AND I LOVE IT!!!

downloaded your music. it wasn't bought. it was simply downloaded and ... what's the word here... oh yea... stolen.

and this is one of the reasons faktion died out. no sales. bad music? nah. shows were packed and the music was quite good. but no one bought it cause they thought someone else would, advertising would cover it. (and face it, advertising was supposed to keep the internet free for us all, right?)

so my real life experiences with real live bands kinda blows this idea right outta the water.

and as for labels telling people what to listen to. dude, that's back in the 60s and even today. you pay spotify to get on their playlist so people can hear you but why - in your own words/thoughts, by the time the band gets to that point their music is now more or less public domain and *should* be free. so now, in your business model, a band has to invest thousands upon hundred of thousands of dollars to put out music so they can be well known only to now already be paid back - somehow - so their music should now be free.

only - no one steals "unknown" work so they bought it. is this how they got their money to continue their growth and reach? nah. no one will steal it if they don't know them so they need to now pay to get known AND THEN people can steal their music.

in this model you've created - where does the bands revenue come from again and how do they get to the point of success?

 

[iceberg]

No one is stealing from artists they haven't heard from.

would be rather difficult to steal from someone you don't know about.

 

[Denim Chicken]

1) it is run by idiots or technology would not have caught them with their pants down. now, are you saying since they are idiots it's ok to steal from them? content is still the key and today content - ie the artists - are still being taken advantage of by NOT being paid. even if it was crap payment in the 80s and 90s, it was still payment. where are their mouths coming from and count the millionaire artists today as we had in the 80s/90s please.

There is just as many (if not more) highly pad artist today, then there was in 80s/90.

2) and we can also stop pretending all musicians are all whiney millionaires. most i know would be happy making $60k a year or a livable wage doing it. even that is tough to do and since sales, the one facet of revenue an indie artist could rely on - is gone. the technology for stealing a millionaires song is the same as a poor mans. so let's not pretend it only "hurts" rich because once you've justified stealing, you will be easily able to do it again.

Just bc your a musician doeskin mean you entitled to a salary. Pls name me one struggling artrist that has been denied due to piracy. There are none.

3) so again, we pick on the rich and pretend that what, 1%, is normal and not the extreme? i wish people thinking all musicians were rich would just "shut up".

Again, if your not a rich musician, no one is downloading your stuff illegally.

4) internet has been the new radio for a long time. i declared CD's dead years before most. wheee. i've also been streaming internet radio since 2000 so it's not like i have zero experience or no artists i know struggling to live, much less have 5 houses.
give me more quotes. it's still theft and it's still killing the industry because the theft has gotten so easy people don't even see it as theft anymore.

It really not killing the industry. Record label profiteers pigeon holing artists and genres and force feeding crappy music that all sound the same is killing the industry. The quote I persecuted were from an article on piricay and you can see highly respcted artist don't care. I didn't include the only artist complaining about piracy--that was Bono.

 

[Denim Chicken]

how many bands do you want me to give you that people ARE downloading their music for free?

marshal dutton, new singer for hinder. i knew him when he was in faktion and they just got signed to roadrunner records. we had a HUGE party at curtain club in dallas my radio station sponsored. we paid the promo, posters, guarantees for the band, i followed up on incorrect news out there about the band because they had no one else - these guys got to be great friends of mine. one of the things marshal said while we were talking still sits with me today. faktion and RR paid a TON to produce their record. and as they went from show to show he'd have hundreds of fans come up and say MAN I DOWNLOADED YOUR MUSIC AND I LOVE IT!!!

downloaded your music. it wasn't bought. it was simply downloaded and ... what's the word here... oh yea... stolen.

and this is one of the reasons faktion died out. no sales. bad music? nah. shows were packed and the music was quite good. but no one bought it cause they thought someone else would, advertising would cover it. (and face it, advertising was supposed to keep the internet free for us all, right?)

so my real life experiences with real live bands kinda blows this idea right outta the water.

and as for labels telling people what to listen to. dude, that's back in the 60s and even today. you pay spotify to get on their playlist so people can hear you but why - in your own words/thoughts, by the time the band gets to that point their music is now more or less public domain and *should* be free. so now, in your business model, a band has to invest thousands upon hundred of thousands of dollars to put out music so they can be well known only to now already be paid back - somehow - so their music should now be free.

only - no one steals "unknown" work so they bought it. is this how they got their money to continue their growth and reach? nah. no one will steal it if they don't know them so they need to now pay to get known AND THEN people can steal their music.

in this model you've created - where does the bands revenue come from again and how do they get to the point of success?

ICE, if this was true you would never see new artists. Yet, everyday there is new music coming out. I never heard of Faktion, but I seriously doubt piracy played a big part in their demise Thousands of bands don't make it. If you're selling out all your shows, you will not have a problem becoming successful.

 

[iceberg]

There is just as many (if not more) highly pad artist today, then there was in 80s/90.

Just bc your a musician doeskin mean you entitled to a salary. Pls name me one struggling artrist that has been denied due to piracy. There are none.

Again, if your not a rich musician, no one is downloading your stuff illegally.

It really not killing the industry. Record label profiteers pigeon holing artists and genres and force feeding crappy music that all sound the same is killing the industry. The quote I persecuted were from an article on piricay and you can see highly respcted artist don't care. I didn't include the only artist complaining about piracy--that was Bono.

1) link me. i know better but you show me. bands like poison were buying hollywood houses and planting pink flamingos back in the day cause money was out the ***. no one doing that today. and its a well known fact sales are WAY DOWN on new music. so tell me where their $ is coming from please. in 17 years of doing radio and working with bands directly, i've missed it.

2) denied what? and just because someone put out music, you're not entitled to it and i don't give a flying **** how much it moves you. so your phrase now works against you. next.

3) yes. they are. want me to get a 3 way call between me, you and marshal? i need to interview them anyway so i'd be glad to add this to my story.

4) that is their perspective and i see where they are coming from *in that light*. i'm talking industry on the whole they're talking specific examples.

the only artist complaining about piracy is bono? you seem to be confusing complaining about labels with piracy.
https://www.upvenue.com/article/1590-musician-stances-on-music-piracy.html

i found your link. so the first google link you find is all you need to know?

 

[iceberg]

ICE, if this was true you would never see new artists. Yet, everyday there is new music coming out. I never heard of Faktion, but I seriously doubt piracy played a big part in their demise Thousands of bands don't make it. If you're selling out all your shows, you will not have a problem becoming successful.

chicken - one more time. I RUN A RADIO STATION. I LOOK FOR NEW ARTISTS MONTHLY. they are getting harder and harder to find.

you are sitting there letting the industry bring music to you while i'm out there looking for it.

again, i'm done now cause your grasp of the situation is far from reality. i've had a few people i work with - bands and industry experts - look in on this thread to tell me if i've strayed and missed something.

nope. but they are giggling at your thought process and each have dozens of examples off the top of their head you say don't exist.

but - you must be right.

have a great weekend. see ya in football talk.

 

[iceberg]

for grins, i did post a quick snip from this convo (no names at all attached) to my FB page (can remove if you don't want that but again, no names are mentioned at all and it's just "hard to buy music from someone you don't know" - that 1 line from each of us) and boosted it. should get 2k hits or more in how i'm doing it but im asking bands - does piracy hurt your chances at success.

we'll see what happens.

 

[Denim Chicken]

for grins, i did post a quick snip from this convo (no names at all attached) to my FB page (can remove if you don't want that but again, no names are mentioned at all and it's just "hard to buy music from someone you don't know" - that 1 line from each of us) and boosted it. should get 2k hits or more in how i'm doing it but im asking bands - does piracy hurt your chances at success.

we'll see what happens.

It's cool (thx for not including my name) and should be interesting.

I stand by it, though. I don't believe that people are DLing music in such a frequency from up and coming bands (those with no national radio play) enough to effect their chances of success.

The issue with the industry is sums up well here :http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyow...ls-the-music-industrys-paranoia/#269d2d1f555c and the result of technology and a changing model as well as the quality of the product.

 

[iceberg]

It's cool (thx for not including my name) and should be interesting.

I stand by it, though. I don't believe that people are DLing music in such a frequency from up and coming bands (those with no national radio play) enough to effect their chances of success.

The issue with the industry is sums up well here :http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyow...ls-the-music-industrys-paranoia/#269d2d1f555c and the result of technology and a changing model as well as the quality of the product.

heh, not so much "frequency" as it would be impossible for say adakain - a dallas band - to be downloaded as much as adele. simply not as many people know about them. but it doesn't mean these bands are not having their music downloaded with no compensation to them.

we'll see how bands feel and i'll let you know. PM me if you want to see my FB page and/or site but not sure if its ok to "advertise it here" so i'd rather not.

 

[YosemiteSam]

No one is stealing from artists they haven't heard from.

I don't even know what that means. People steal songs they like. If they are super popular or relatively unknown. If they like the song, they steal it. Either way, it's a crime.

 

[Denim Chicken]

I don't even know what that means. People steal songs they like. If they are super popular or relatively unknown. If they like the song, they steal it. Either way, it's a crime.

My point was that if you hear a song you like and it some obscure local band where are you stealing it from? Are you talking about a friend lending you a CD and making a copy? If you look on a torrent site, it's unlikely you are able to find it.

If you're a relatively unknown band or artist and by some happen chance find your music being shared with some frequency--thank your lucky stars bc everyone that hears your music gives you a better chance to become well know.

That's why you see artists giving their CDs away on the streets--hoping to be discovered.