Arbitrator hands down 162 Games for A-Rod

[ABQCOWBOY]

HGH is much more rampant than it was (probably), but PEDs in some form or fashion have been used forever. People like Willie Mays and Willie Stargell were accused of providing "greenies" - an amphetamine like Adderall or Ritalin - which are both banned in baseball. Guys in pro sports look for any edge with drugs. I'm sure there are plenty of clean players out there, but PEDs have been around a long long time.

Tom House pitched in the 60s, and said that they "took steroids you wouldn't give to horses." Babe Ruth injected himself with sheep testosterone. Pud Galvin used Brown-Sequard Elixir, a testosterone pulled from dogs in 1889.

The purity of baseball past is a nice romantic idea, but it's patently false. Honestly, this is probably the cleanest era of baseball that's ever been played. That's what I hate about people trying to discount records from the HGH era, when the records they broke were set in "dirty" eras, as well.

I don't really think it was rampant in the early stages of Baseball. Where there some guys who tried different things? Probably. However, if you actually look at the development of synthetics and PEDs in general, the science was not really there to help Baseball, like it did Football etc. I think pitchers have been using for years but not so much other positions and hitters. I think that's much more recent. Building bulk does not really help you in Baseball. I am skeptical of it's wide spread usage before the late 70s, early 80s. JMO.

 

[bounce]

I don't really think it was rampant in the early stages of Baseball. Where there some guys who tried different things? Probably. However, if you actually look at the development of synthetics and PEDs in general, the science was not really there to help Baseball, like it did Football etc. I think pitchers have been using for years but not so much other positions and hitters. I think that's much more recent. Building bulk does not really help you in Baseball. I am skeptical of it's wide spread usage before the late 70s, early 80s. JMO.

Not in terms of building muscle, sure, but in terms of using a drug to gain an advantage, it has been. Adderall and the like allow you hyperfocus, which would most definitely be beneficial as a batter. I imagine the biggest reason PEDs is such a big deal is the growth of social media and instant, wide-spread news.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not in terms of building muscle, sure, but in terms of using a drug to gain an advantage, it has been. Adderall and the like allow you hyperfocus, which would most definitely be beneficial as a batter. I imagine the biggest reason PEDs is such a big deal is the growth of social media and instant, wide-spread news.

That's true. I am speaking, more in terms of steroids or SGH. You are correct in that certain drugs such as Greenies or what have you have been around for years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

USADA: A-Rod regimen 'potent'
Updated: January 15, 2014, 12:50 PM ET
ESPN.com news services

The regimen of performance-enhancing substances delivered by Tony Bosch to Alex Rodriguez was "probably the most potent and sophisticated drug program developed for an athlete that we've ever seen,'' U.S. Anti-Doping Agency CEO Travis Tygart told The Associated Press.

"No one who cares about clean sports likes to hear it,'' Tygart said in an interview with the AP. "And don't just take my word for it. Look at the findings of an independent arbitrator who saw all the evidence, sat through the testimony and laid the whole conspiracy out.''

Tygart said Bosch's regimen included dozens of blood tests to see how the drugs were metabolizing and which doses to use when. It included peptides and female fertility drugs to supplement testosterone, human growth hormone and an insulin-like growth factor.

"At the end of the day,'' Tygart said, "this was a potent cocktail of sophisticated PEDs stacked together to deliver power, aid recovery, avoid detection and create a home run champion.''

Click on link below to read entire article:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/sto...-doping-plan-most-potent-ever-seen-usada-says

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Gardner, Nova, and Robertson are arbitration-eligible so that should push their payroll up too.

Wanted to just follow up on your post Kristen. Here is the latest info I have found on key Yankee players eligible for Arbitration. I believe that today was the deadline for filing.


David Robertson Eligibility: Third year eligible Role: Setup Man / Closer Expected To Earn: $5.5 Million. Previous Year's Salary 3.1 Million.

Brett Gardner Eligibility: Third year eligible Role: Outfielder Expected To Earn: $4 Million. Previous Year's Salary 2.85 Million.

Ivan Nova Eligibility: First year eligible Role: Starting Pitcher Expected To Earn: $2.8 Million. Previous Year's Salary 575K.

Shawn Kelley Eligibility: Third Year eligible Role: Reliever Expected To Earn: $1.5 Million. Previous Year's Salary 935K.

Francisco Cervelli Eligibility: First year eligible Role: Backup Catcher Expected To Earn: $1. Previous Year's Salary 515K.

That is a projected 6.825 Million increase over last years salaries for all 5 of these players combined.

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/

 

[Kristen82]

Wanted to just follow up on your post Kristen. Here is the latest info I have found on key Yankee players eligible for Arbitration. I believe that today was the deadline for filing.

That is a projected 6.825 Million increase over last years salaries for all 5 of these players combined.

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/

That doesn't seem like much but it could push them over the tax threshold. I wonder how much they really care though if they're gunning for Tanaka.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That doesn't seem like much but it could push them over the tax threshold. I wonder how much they really care though if they're gunning for Tanaka.

I don't think they do Kristen, if they can get Tanaka. If they get him, then I think the Yankees will just try to go for broke. They will already be over the threshold and it will then make sense to try and put together enough talent to win it. If they don't get him, then I think maybe they pull back and try to keep their powder dry for a run next year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wanted to just follow up on your post Kristen. Here is the latest info I have found on key Yankee players eligible for Arbitration. I believe that today was the deadline for filing.


David Robertson Eligibility: Third year eligible Role: Setup Man / Closer Expected To Earn: $5.5 Million. Previous Year's Salary 3.1 Million.


Brett Gardner Eligibility: Third year eligible Role: Outfielder Expected To Earn: $4 Million. Previous Year's Salary 2.85 Million.

Ivan Nova Eligibility: First year eligible Role: Starting Pitcher Expected To Earn: $2.8 Million. Previous Year's Salary 575K.

Shawn Kelley Eligibility: Third Year eligible Role: Reliever Expected To Earn: $1.5 Million. Previous Year's Salary 935K.

Francisco Cervelli Eligibility: First year eligible Role: Backup Catcher Expected To Earn: $1. Previous Year's Salary 515K.

That is a projected 6.825 Million increase over last years salaries for all 5 of these players combined.

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/

Yankees avoid Arbitration with Robertson, Gardner, Kelley and Cervelli.

Robertson gets 5.215 Million, Gardner gets 5.6 Million, Kelley gets 1.765 Million and Cervelli gets 700K. All one year contracts.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't think they do Kristen, if they can get Tanaka. If they get him, then I think the Yankees will just try to go for broke. They will already be over the threshold and it will then make sense to try and put together enough talent to win it. If they don't get him, then I think maybe they pull back and try to keep their powder dry for a run next year.

I don't think they care (as much) now as they did say a year ago.

Last season was a disaster for the Yankees as far as TV ratings go on the Yes Network, not to mention that attendance dropped by almost 10% at home and a little less than that on the road.

The fact is if the Yankees do not field a competitive team or should I say the fans don't feel the Yankees are fielding a competitive team then it's probably going to cost them (Hal & siblings) more $$ than what the additional tax would. Not too mention the mental beatings they take from anyone and everyone concerning the performance of the club.

And if they don't sign Tanaka... And they may not, I would expect they'll still spend more FA $ on a couple more guys who can start.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Players wanted A-Rod out of union
Updated: January 22, 2014, 10:37 AM ET
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Several angry major league players wanted Alex Rodriguez kicked out of their union after he sued it last week, but staff lawyers told them expulsion was not allowed.

The players spoke Jan. 13 during a Major League Baseball Players Association conference call after Rodriguez sued the union and Major League Baseball to overturn an arbitrator's decision suspending him for the 2014 season and postseason.

Details were first reported Tuesday by Yahoo! Sports and later confirmed to The Associated Press by a person familiar with the call. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because no statements were authorized.

The union and Rodriguez spokesman Ron Berkowitz declined comment.

Click on link below to read the entire article:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10329442/players-wanted-alex-rodriguez-kicked-union

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am really not surprised by this at all. I believe most players feel like A-Rod is a cheater and that he has been given plenty of opportunities to get it right. He's got a huge contract that he is guaranteed to be paid on, regardless of how well he plays or if he even plays, if he will only stop using. They don't see the logic here. The Union will spend 10s of millions of dollars to defend A-Rod in a case they have no chance of winning and the players will have to pay for it. I don't blame them one bit.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

THe only thing I agree with the PED users is it does not help you hit the ball you have to have that ability, what it does do is makes a line drive out a single, a single possibly a double and a double possibly a triple or HR.

You forgot one.

A fly ball becomes a homerun.

If it gives you 5% more power then the ball goes further. Over the fence instead of caught for an out!

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Arod is officially done.

Yankees will negotiate buyout of his contract.

Never wears pinstripes again. Thank you!

 

[Rogah]

Arod is officially done.

Yankees will negotiate buyout of his contract.

Never wears pinstripes again. Thank you!

I agree he never wears pinstripes again, but there ain't going to be any negotiations. He is due roughly $60 million for 2015-2017 and they are going to pay him 100 cents on the dollar, period, end of story.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually, I'm not certain of this. While I agree, ARod is owed approximately 61 Million on his existing deal, there are still issues that could impact that number. For example, the Yankees could try and recoup 6 million of that for performance clauses that have already been paid out. They could also negotiate a buy out with ARod. Just prior to the most recent ruling from the courts, ARod's team was trying to work out a deal with the Yankees for a buy out. Now that the ruling has been handed down, I don't know that ARod is as interested in that but he may become more interested, depending on how the Yankees handle his future contract. For example, if the Yankees decided to contest the contract and seek to void the contract based on his previous transgressions, that could become expensive and time consuming. I don't know that the Yankees could win that argument but maybe they wouldn't have to. It's possible that ARod may decide to try and avoid that and simply settle on a buyout figure that is less then what is actually owed. Not saying that this is what will happen but I could see that as a possibility depending on future events.

 

[Rogah]

Actually, I'm not certain of this. While I agree, ARod is owed approximately 61 Million on his existing deal, there are still issues that could impact that number. For example, the Yankees could try and recoup 6 million of that for performance clauses that have already been paid out.

Well they could try. They could also try to sprout wings and fly, but that doesn't mean it is going to work.

They could also negotiate a buy out with ARod.

Oh, there will be a buyout but there won't be any negotiations. The buyout price is roughly $61 million. Why in the world would A-Rod take less? If someone owed you $100 (and you know they have the $100) and they said "I'll give you $50 and we can forget the whole thing" would you take it?

The Yankees have absolutely zero leverage here. A-Rod can just say "I reject your offer and I will report to spring training in March, 2015."

Just prior to the most recent ruling from the courts, ARod's team was trying to work out a deal with the Yankees for a buy out. Now that the ruling has been handed down, I don't know that ARod is as interested in that but he may become more interested, depending on how the Yankees handle his future contract. For example, if the Yankees decided to contest the contract and seek to void the contract based on his previous transgressions, that could become expensive and time consuming. I don't know that the Yankees could win that argument but maybe they wouldn't have to. It's possible that ARod may decide to try and avoid that and simply settle on a buyout figure that is less then what is actually owed. Not saying that this is what will happen but I could see that as a possibility depending on future events.

If the Yankees tried that, the players union would smack them so hard they wouldn't know what hit 'em. And as much as the union hates A-Rod, they will never allow one of their own to take less than what is fully owed. They don't want the precedent which would allow other owners to go after other PED users.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well they could try. They could also try to sprout wings and fly, but that doesn't mean it is going to work.

Actually, according to what I have read recently, the have a much better chance of getting this done then they do any of the other possible avenues of recouping salary.

Oh, there will be a buyout but there won't be any negotiations. The buyout price is roughly $61 million. Why in the world would A-Rod take less? If someone owed you $100 (and you know they have the $100) and they said "I'll give you $50 and we can forget the whole thing" would you take it?

Perhaps, but there are reasons why he might consider less. Prior to the decision, he was absolutely open to taking less so I don't know. It really comes down to how much he might have to spend to defend a legal action and the time it might cost him away from the game. That could come into play.

The Yankees have absolutely zero leverage here. A-Rod can just say "I reject your offer and I will report to spring training in March, 2015."
If the Yankees tried that, the players union would smack them so hard they wouldn't know what hit 'em. And as much as the union hates A-Rod, they will never allow one of their own to take less than what is fully owed. They don't want the precedent which would allow other owners to go after other PED users.

I would not say the Yankees have zero leverage here. A-Rod can just report to spring training but that doesn't mean the Yankees have to play him or even work him out. The Yankees could file suit against him and tie it up in court for a fairly long time. They could make it expensive, if they chose to do so. Or, they could simply just sit him. He would be, after all, Yankee property and there is really nothing anybody could do about it. If it is important to A-Rod to chase the home run records, then that would be something that would basically end any chance of him breaking. It's hard to know how important that might be to A-Rod. There is leverage there.

As for the players union, I would not count on them being an obstical, necessarily. There are meetings going on now that could change a lot of what currently exists in Baseball between Teams, Players and contracts, based on illegal substance usage. There are a lot of Players who don't want to support A-Rod.

 

[Rogah]

Actually, according to what I have read recently, the have a much better chance of getting this done then they do any of the other possible avenues of recouping salary.

Link, please. I have heard and read absolutely nothing along those lines.

I would not say the Yankees have zero leverage here. A-Rod can just report to spring training but that doesn't mean the Yankees have to play him or even work him out.

They don't have to play him, but they do have to keep him on the 25-man roster. They would invite an endless amount of media distraction and all for fighting a battle they simply cannot win.

The Yankees could file suit against him and tie it up in court for a fairly long time. They could make it expensive, if they chose to do so.

The Yankees are still a business and if they wanted to make it expensive, it would be expensive for them as well. They're not going to spend millions and millions of dollars on legal fees to wage a battle they stand no chance of winning. That's the exact same conclusion A-Rod came to recently regarding his appeal of his suspension. He knew he would lose so he threw in the towel. Yankees would do the same.

Or, they could simply just sit him. He would be, after all, Yankee property and there is really nothing anybody could do about it. If it is important to A-Rod to chase the home run records, then that would be something that would basically end any chance of him breaking. It's hard to know how important that might be to A-Rod. There is leverage there.

Having him on the 25-man roster and not playing him would be an absolute disaster. Roster spots are very important. You're not going to handicap your own season by keeping a guy around whom you are not playing, not to mention the constant media distraction.

As for the players union, I would not count on them being an obstical, necessarily. There are meetings going on now that could change a lot of what currently exists in Baseball between Teams, Players and contracts, based on illegal substance usage. There are a lot of Players who don't want to support A-Rod.

There may be changes going forward, but there will be no changes made retroactively so this is totally irrelevant.

Like I said, as much as the players hate A-Rod, they will not allow the Yankees to pay him any less than 100 cents on the dollar. As far as they are concerned, it would be an impermissible precedent opening the door for other owners to go after other players. The union isn't just protecting A-Rod, they're protecting Ryan Braun, Nelson Cruz and Jhonny Peralta (etc.)

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Link, please. I have heard and read absolutely nothing along those lines.

Google is your friend. Just look up how the contract is set up. He gets 6 million for reaching certain milestones. If the Yankees don't play him, he can't reach those milestones and the Yankees get back the 6 Million attached to each of them.

Here is a Forbes article on it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...million-today-despite-season-long-suspension/

They don't have to play him, but they do have to keep him on the 25-man roster. They would invite an endless amount of media distraction and all for fighting a battle they simply cannot win.The Yankees are still a business and if they wanted to make it expensive, it would be expensive for them as well. They're not going to spend millions and millions of dollars on legal fees to wage a battle they stand no chance of winning. That's the exact same conclusion A-Rod came to recently regarding his appeal of his suspension. He knew he would lose so he threw in the towel. Yankees would do the same.

Not necessarily. It comes down to how much ARod wants to break those records. If the Yankees believe they could save more money by delaying it, then it would be worth fighting it. If ARod wants to get back onto the field, then he may be more interested in getting it settled rather then just getting paid the full payout of 61 Million. Remember, all he really had to do to get all of that money was to simply retire from injuries, which he could have done. That would have allowed the insurance to kick in and the Yankees would have picked up the balance but he didn't do that. That suggests to me that he wants to continue playing and he wants to break those records. If all of that is true, then for him, it's a game of time. He doesn't have a lot left and the Yankees control that clock till 2017.

Having him on the 25-man roster and not playing him would be an absolute disaster. Roster spots are very important. You're not going to handicap your own season by keeping a guy around whom you are not playing, not to mention the constant media distraction.

He can be designated to ABall or he can be kept on the active roster and simply not played. It's up to the Yankees how they do this. However, if the Yankees do keep him, I see no way that they will play him. There are incentives of up to 30 million attached to his performance numbers. They won't risk that if they have to keep him.

There may be changes going forward, but there will be no changes made retroactively so this is totally irrelevant.

But any law suit may not be retroactive. That would fall under current CBA and that's why I say the players and the union may not back ARod as you suggest. Any action from the Union would not come till next season. That might be too late.

Like I said, as much as the players hate A-Rod, they will not allow the Yankees to pay him any less than 100 cents on the dollar. As far as they are concerned, it would be an impermissible precedent opening the door for other owners to go after other players. The union isn't just protecting A-Rod, they're protecting Ryan Braun, Nelson Cruz and Jhonny Peralta (etc.)

Again, I am not so sure of that. The Union and the players both know that if this type of cheating continues, it's likely to spell the end of long term guaranteed contracts. I agree that the Union is trying to protect other players but I am not so sure that it's in the way you describe it. The League will not continue to have long term, big dollar contracts that have no recourse for substance violations. The poster boy for why that can't continue is ARod. The Union may well look at the future of player contracts and decide that it is wiser to come to an agreement with the League on that rather then risking Million of dollars on future contracts, simply because they take a stand on protecting a dirty player, especially when the overwhelming majority of it's members are against that.

 

[Rogah]

Google is your friend. Just look up how the contract is set up. He gets 6 million for reaching certain milestones. If the Yankees don't play him, he can't reach those milestones and the Yankees get back the 6 Million attached to each of them.

Here is a Forbes article on it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad...million-today-despite-season-long-suspension/

There is absolutely nothing in that article that supports what you said. You said the "Yankees could try and recoup 6 million of that for performance clauses that have already been paid out." (direct quote, your words, emphasis added) All that article talks about is future performance bonuses.

That's pretty funny the way you realized you were wrong and I called you out on it so you totally changed your statement hoping no one would notice.

Reading comprehension is your friend.

He can be designated to ABall or he can be kept on the active roster and simply not played.

Now you're just showing how much you simply do not know what you are talking about. The Yankees absolutely cannot designate him for assignment without his consent to A-Ball or anywhere else. The guy has been playing baseball for 20 years so sorry, but I think team options on him are expired.

Again, I am not so sure of that. The Union and the players both know that if this type of cheating continues, it's likely to spell the end of long term guaranteed contracts. I agree that the Union is trying to protect other players but I am not so sure that it's in the way you describe it. The League will not continue to have long term, big dollar contracts that have no recourse for substance violations.

Robinson Cano, Jacoby Ellsbury and Masahiro Tanaka say hi.

The poster boy for why that can't continue is ARod. The Union may well look at the future of player contracts and decide that it is wiser to come to an agreement with the League on that rather then risking Million of dollars on future contracts, simply because they take a stand on protecting a dirty player, especially when the overwhelming majority of it's members are against that.

You're talking about potential future changes, which is completely irrelevant to this discussion.