Are any of you employERS? If you were, you'd understand Jerry's position on Dan.

[BulletBob]

Is Bob McNair a business owner? From Reeves' reaction it doesn't sound like he was punching in and out each day for him.

I wonder if Bob Kraft has Floyd Reese on a time clock too. If not someone better warn him about the perils of taking a professional at his word.

Alex, it's not about "punching a clock." It's about putting down in writing what you expect out of the engagement.

Let's say that Jerry wanted Dan to work a 40 Hr work week just like everyone else at the Ranch, and Dan was under the impression that he should be allowed to come and go as he pleases, and put as much or as little time in the office as he sees fit. That is an impasse.

If you lay out millions from your own pocket, I don't care if the Pope is your consultant, you simply get in writing what you expect from the contract. It's sound business practice.

I'd be willing to bet you that at some point in his career, Jerry has hired someone very close to him on a gentleman's agreement, and has gotten burned down the road for not putting his expectations down in writing.

I know I have.

Serious business people simply do not write contracts with open-ended show-up-whenever-you-want clauses.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Alex, it's not about "punching a clock." It's about putting down in writing what you expect out of the engagement.

Let's say that Jerry wanted Dan to work a 40 Hr work week just like everyone else at the Ranch, and Dan was under the impression that he should be allowed to come and go as he pleases, and put as much or as little time in the office as he sees fit. That is an impasse.

If you lay out millions from your own pocket, I don't care if the Pope is your consultant, you simply get in writing what you expect from the contract. It's sound business practice.

I'd be willing to bet you that at some point in his career, Jerry has hired someone very close to him on a gentleman's agreement, and has gotten burned down the road for not putting his expectations down in writing.

I know I have.

Serious business people simply do not write contracts with open-ended show-up-whenever-you-want clauses.

But Reeves plainly said that was absolutely not the case.

Reeves was going to be far more hands-on than the kind of consultant you're thinking of. He was basically going to join the coaching staff.

 

[BulletBob]

I seen both contracts where ir specified hours and ones that did not in the IT industry it depends on what is negotiated and the type of work it was.

I seen Helpdesk contracts very from company to company where it gone by hours and we also done contracts per seat no hours specified.

Contracts done by seat still specify that the help desk support is there at least 40 hours per week (and sometimes 24 x 7).

You don't hire help desk support and allow the company to have their help desk staff show up whenever they feel like it.

In this case, the only commitment that made sense for Jerry to put in the contract was a time commitment. If he were going to lay out all of that cash, why is it unreasonable to ask any consultant for a minimum time commitment?

FYI - if I were Jerry, I would have had the contract drawn up to pay Dan on a per-hour basis. That would have eliminated the whole sticking point on a minimum number of hours. Perhaps Jerry offered this and it was refused. Who knows?

 

[Alexander]

Alex, it's not about "punching a clock." It's about putting down in writing what you expect out of the engagement.

Let's say that Jerry wanted Dan to work a 40 Hr work week just like everyone else at the Ranch, and Dan was under the impression that he should be allowed to come and go as he pleases, and put as much or as little time in the office as he sees fit. That is an impasse.

If you lay out millions from your own pocket, I don't care if the Pope is your consultant, you simply get in writing what you expect from the contract. It's sound business practice.

I'd be willing to bet you that at some point in his career, Jerry has hired someone very close to him on a gentleman's agreement, and has gotten burned down the road for not putting his expectations down in writing.

I know I have.

Serious business people simply do not write contracts with open-ended show-up-whenever-you-want clauses.

That's all nice and my heart does bleed for poor Jerry Jones who might have been financially scarred at one time for not covering himself.

But again, I wonder if this is something that other owners do. Would a Bob Kraft demand that from Floyd Reese? McNair felt comfortable with Reeves, apparently. Both of them are experienced esteemed businessmen running NFL franchises. The only problem is that they don't have the same sort of zeal Jerry Jones has for not only being in control, but making sure that everyone understands it even to the point of getting it in black and white print.

The fact of the matter is, Jones approached this as a business and chose those interests over what quite possibly are the best interests of this football team. Justified or not, he chose that path and I don't have a hard time believing that he regrets it all that much.

 

[BulletBob]

But Reeves plainly said that was absolutely not the case.

Reeves was going to be far more hands-on than the kind of consultant you're thinking of. He was basically going to join the coaching staff.

Well, perhaps you are right, CL.

If that were the case, then Jerry should have just hired him as a coach, paid him a set salary, and gotten it over with.

 

[BulletBob]

That's all nice and my heart does bleed for poor Jerry Jones who might have been financially scarred at one time for not covering himself.

But again, I wonder if this is something that other owners do. Would a Bob Kraft demand that from Floyd Reese? McNair felt comfortable with Reeves, apparently. Both of them are experienced esteemed businessmen running NFL franchises. The only problem is that they don't have the same sort of zeal Jerry Jones has for not only being in control, but making sure that everyone understands it even to the point of getting it in black and white print.

The fact of the matter is, Jones approached this as a business and chose those interests over what quite possibly are the best interests of this football team. Justified or not, he chose that path and I don't have a hard time believing that he regrets it all that much.

That may be, but like it or not, a football franchise IS a business, and if not run like one, it will fail.

I have no idea if Kraft has a detailed contract with Reese. I have a hard idea believing he doesn't.

I don't understand why you have trouble acknowledging that it's sound business practice to put expectations in writing with a detailed contract.

In the business world, that's simply how business relationships are effectively conducted.

It's nice to think of the fuzzy world where everyone respects and trusts one another and you do business with a handshake with everyone singing kumbayah.

That's not how it works when you have responsibility for the entire company.

 

[Alexander]

That may be, but like it or not, a football franchise IS a business, and if not run like one, it will fail.

I have no idea if Kraft has a detailed contract with Reese. I have a hard idea believing he doesn't.

I don't understand why you have trouble acknowledging that it's sound business practice to put expectations in writing with a detailed contract.

I don't have any trouble acknowledging it. I just don't appreciate Jones for it. Great. He's a wrinkled up Gordon Gekko. I get it. I just don't care for it.

Reeves has been around the block or two and when he states he saw something in that contract that was practically unheard of in the NFL world, I believe him.

I guess this is another way we can all hail Jerry Jones as a pioneer and a maverick.

 

[BulletBob]

I don't have any trouble acknowledging it. I just don't appreciate Jones for it. Great. He's a wrinkled up Gordon Gekko. I get it. I just don't care for it.

Reeves has been around the block or two and when he states he saw something in that contract that was practically unheard of in the NFL world, I believe him.

I guess this is another way we can all hail Jerry Jones as a pioneer and a maverick.

My head hurts. Why would it be practically unheard of to ask ANY consultant to commit to a certain number of hours?

It's completely moronic to pay for a consultant WITHOUT asking for a time commitment or some other specific result in writing.

As a business owner, it simply makes no sense.

 

[Deep_South]

I think Dan resented having to wear the security guard uniform after everyone else had gone home for the night.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

The thing about this is that it was probably a trust issue.

Here is where I have a question.

Reeves has done this before in Houston. He is not new to being a consultant for an NFL franchise.

Reeves sounded completely disarmed that his integrity was questioned. That then draws you to the conclusion that Bob McNair did not get down to that level of specifics about exactly how many hours he spent when he was doing the same thing in Houston.

Perhaps he was not prepared for a hardcore business approach from Jerry Jones and as he says, he views contracts as more of a handshake than anything else. He's a person of integrity and I believe that's just the way he is and any implication otherwise damaged the trust factor.

Well, the Texans got their money's worth from Reeves.
They got into the playoffs, did they?

All in all, Reeves, as I have said many times before, is a retread. A relic. A coach from the 1990s. An old fart. He's no Landry, no Jimma, not even a Tomlin. What super bowls did he win at a HC? Why is he suddenly such a genius. He didn't want T.O.? Well, Dan, you are stupid.
Go home and heal. Go home and just be the bitter old man that you are and leave the modern-day NFL alone.

Great job in Houston, Danny Boy.

(And yes, had Wade done the job he was hired to to, there would be no need for a teacher/mentor/baby sitter service by Danny Boy)

 

[jday]

For one moment, look at this thing from a pure business perspective. I know it is difficult, and I know that Jerry has made some incredibly unproductive decisions over his tenure.

But this Dan Reeves thing? Come on.

I own a consulting firm. I have been in the consulting business for over 15 years. You do NOT EVER write/sign a contract with a consultant without specifying how many hours that consultant is going to work for you. It is simply not done.

Think about it. Would you lay out MILLIONS of dollars of your own money for a consultant without ANY guarantee that the consultant would be onsite working for a minimum amount of hours per week?

It has nothing to do with "punching a time clock." It has to do with contractually making sure you get what you pay for.

Think about a scenario in which you are applying for a new job. You do well in the interview, and the salary negotiations start. The negotiations end with you making the following assertion, "Sure, $1.5 million a year should cover it, but one last thing - I can't sign up to this 40-hours-a-week-thing. In fact, I'm not willing to guarantee that I'll be in the office for any number of hours a week. I need a flexible schedule. But trust me, you'll get tremendous value for the salary you pay me." How do you think that interview would end?

Dan may have promised up and down that he would get the job done. That's great, but from a contract perspective you have got to back it up. You've got to commit to a certain number of hours in order to get paid.

You can vent all you want about stupid decisions from Jerry which are killing this team, but in this case, Jerry was not the one being unreasonable. Any business would be committing suicide by signing contracts with consultants that contain no hours clauses.

By the way, if any of you would like to sign a contract :write:for one of my consultants where you pay us a certain amount per year, and we do not have to guarantee how many hours we will put in on the project, please PM me. I'd be ecstatic to accommodate your request.

:wink2:

I think we can all agree that having Dan Reeves here looked like a positive change. But on that same token, I don't agree with the situation involving his departure being labeled as an embarrassment. And while I'm not happy about the fact that his presence here was made public, I don't think Jerry or Wade personally made it known that he was here. If they have a mole, it is what it is. But to be up in arms about Dan Reeves not being able to agree to a time committment is just ignorant. It's Jerry's money, at the end of the day. If your like me, when you ask for your steak cooked a certain way and it doesn't come out that way, you send it packing and wait for new one.

Furthermore, we are talking about a role that shouldn't be necessary, if you have the right coaching staff in place. Rather that's the case is debatable, but I think Jerry realizes is with this current coaching staff, he has made his bed, and he intends to give it one more night of sleep before trying something different. I mean, in terms of average coach retention, the new coach smell hasn't even worn off yet, so, as much as Baby Huey Wade get's on my nerves, I do think he deserves one more season to put this team together.

Like I have said in previous post, the most fundementally important aspect as an owner for me exist with Jerry: he wants to win. The second tier is he has experienced success in life prior to his football days, so he's not going to give up trying to win.

 

[Dallas]

I think we can all agree that having Dan Reeves here looked like a positive change. But on that same token, I don't agree with the situation involving his departure being labeled as an embarrassment. And while I'm not happy about the fact that his presence here was made public, I don't think Jerry or Wade personally made it known that he was here. If they have a mole, it is what it is. But to be up in arms about Dan Reeves not being able to agree to a time committment is just ignorant. It's Jerry's money, at the end of the day. If your like me, when you ask for your steak cooked a certain way and it doesn't come out that way, you send it packing and wait for new one.

Furthermore, we are talking about a role that shouldn't be necessary, if you have the right coaching staff in place. Rather that's the case is debatable, but I think Jerry realizes is with this current coaching staff, he has made his bed, and he intends to give it one more night of sleep before trying something different. I mean, in terms of average coach retention, the new coach smell hasn't even worn off yet, so, as much as Baby Huey Wade get's on my nerves, I do think he deserves one more season to put this team together.

Like I have said in previous post, the most fundementally important aspect as an owner for me exist with Jerry: he wants to win. The second tier is he has experienced success in life prior to his football days, so he's not going to give up trying to win.

Nailed that one didnt you? Well said. I agree totally. I wish people could take the emotion out of this scenario and look at it for what it is.

Jerry has all the right in the world to ask for time specifics in a contract w/ anyone who works for him.


This is just stupid on all levels.

 

[Iago33]

My head hurts. Why would it be practically unheard of to ask ANY consultant to commit to a certain number of hours?

It's completely moronic to pay for a consultant WITHOUT asking for a time commitment or some other specific result in writing.

As a business owner, it simply makes no sense.

Is it not possible to put "specific result in writing" without connecting it to hours? Yes, and it's done all the time.

Look. Jerry can run his business any way he wants--it's his way or the highway. Reeves can get his ego bruised. They could have worked it out like men, but they chose to let the thing fall apart.

 

[bbgun]

My head hurts. Why would it be practically unheard of to ask ANY consultant to commit to a certain number of hours?

It's completely moronic to pay for a consultant WITHOUT asking for a time commitment or some other specific result in writing.

As a business owner, it simply makes no sense.

Maybe one day you'll undertand that we needed Reeves (or someone like Reeves) a lot more than Jerry needed that poison pill in the contract. Jerry should have swallowed his pride and hired him on good faith. Also, certain players are allowed to skip the OTAs but Dan is to be kept on a leash? Screw that nonsense.

 

[jazzcat22]

I can see both sides of it. I work a full time job as an Engineer. I also own a bar and employ 6 people.

My employees even though they go beyond the required time the bartenders / waitresses. It is not a requirement nor do I expect it. I do take take of them for that and all the extras they do to take care of things.

On the other hand, my employer expects me here 40 hours a week. I get paid, I leave. But I will stay extra if needed to get a project finished. Sometimes if someting comes up, and can not get in my 40 hours, they understand that also. As long as the projects don't suffer in the long run.

It is a give and take. So if this is the issue, IMO it is very stupid for Jerry to put that in the contract. If you can accomplish what you need to do in less time, then that is great.

However, working for a buisness is enitrely different than owning one because there is always something that you feel you need to do or improve to ake the buisness better. But that ultimately falls on the owner, not the employees unless written in a contract, such as aManager or in a teams case, a Head Coach. But on Major Sports team, rather NFL, NBA or whatever, how can to put a time claus to it.

Totally stupid IMO.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Both men did the right thing and walked away from the deal. I can't blame either side for their business decision. BUT, the biggest gaffe in all of this was Jerry's decision to let Reeves walk in the door in the first place without a signed contract. If he was going to treat it as a business transaction, then he should have done so from start to finish.

 

[jday]

Nailed that one didnt you? Well said. I agree totally. I wish people could take the emotion out of this scenario and look at it for what it is.

Jerry has all the right in the world to ask for time specifics in a contract w/ anyone who works for him.


This is just stupid on all levels.

Good to see I'm not alone in this sentiment.

The issue is we as fans represent a large scabbed over wound in Dallas, from this extremely dissappointing season. Everytime something dissappointing comes out of Valley Ranch, it picks at the scab, and the wound is back where it started. Reactions will be furious regardless of how illogical that type of response is; so I can understand why everyone is more upset then we think they should be.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I am sorry, but you are all coming at this from the perspective of a fan rather than a business owner.

As a business owner you NEVER hire a consultant without specifying EXACTLY what you will get from that consultant in the contract. And those of you moaning about having to punch a timeclock, I've got news for you: consultants hand in timesheets every week - that's how they get paid!

On rare occassions you may issue a fixed-price contract under which the consultant delivers a particular product (like a sofware application) and the consultant agrees to a single fixed price regradless of the amount of hours he puts in.

But in this case, there is no possible way to stipultate a fixed-price product. All you are left with is the time that the consultant will dedicate.

Those of you indicating that there are "special" situations in business where you throw out contractual obligations and do business on a handshake just because of the "respect" the other party has earned, simply do not understand the risk involved in proceeding down that path.

I've seen too many situations where two parties enter into a business arrangement with the best of intentions and mutual respect. More than 50% of the time those arrangements end in bitter disputes involving legal fees and a fundamental misunderstanding of what each party's obligation was in the engagement.

The fan in me is as angry as the rest of you that Jerry let Dan walk away from the organization. The businessman in me however, understands that you simply do not do business with someone who carries a ton of respect, but won't agree to any time commitments on a contract.

I own a business and do consulting, and I agree with you only to a point. What Reeves would be doing, regardless of what it's called, wouldn't be pure "consulting." He's not like to be throwing any spreadsheets together or that kind of thing. The term consultant, in a football sense, seems to me to be prettly loose. Ron Wolfe was a consultant. I doubt anyone cared about his hours. He was hired for his expertise.

Reeves wasn't being hired, I don't think, to come in an spend x hours to do y thing. He was hired for his brain and his abilities.

In that circumstance, hours are not a fair measure of value. When I consult, I am generally paid by the hour. But there are some jobs I'm given that require maybe five minutes for me to say, "Do x." In that circumstance, my hours are irrelevant. It's my knowledge and instincts for which I'm being paid.

Reeves almost surely falls into the "knowledge and instincts" category, and I don't blame him at all for balking. Of course, it's Jerry's pony, and he can decide who gets to ride. It's his party.

But I don't see this as the kind of thing where hours are relevant. I can promise you I wouldn't have included it in a contract or have signed one that included it. Not if the job description is anything close to what it seems.

Yes, I agree there has to be a solid contract, but an hours clause doesn't fit, I don't think.

 

[jday]

Both men did the right thing and walked away from the deal. I can't blame either side for their business decision. BUT, the biggest gaffe in all of this was Jerry's decision to let Reeves walk in the door in the first place without a signed contract. If he was going to treat it as a business transaction, then he should have done so from start to finish.

I agree with that...the Contract should have been signed prior to plane tickets being purchased for Dan Reeves to come down here, otherwise, it's just wasted money. But like someone said before, I think Jerry may have been suprised by Ran Reeves problem with the contract. Furthermore, I think that with all of Jerry's money being tied up in the new stadium, this language in the contract may have been a result of his financial advisors ensuring he's not paying for a fishing trip for Wade and Dan. Not that this exonerates him of blame in this situation; I just understand how it may have fell apart the way it did.

 

[wileedog]

That may be, but like it or not, a football franchise IS a business, and if not run like one, it will fail.

The $1.5 Billion Dallas Cowboys are going to fail if Dan Reeves doesn't have an hours clause?

BTW, remember TO told Jerry that he has a sleeping disorder and would often sleep through meetings or be late for them BEFORE he signed the contract. Where was Jerry's "Awake Clause" then if we are running this so businesslike? TO can slack off but Dan isn't allowed to?