Are Cowboys closer to a champ game with McCarthy?

[Diehardblues]

Better question is:
Can we even make a NFCCG with our current GM.
28 years says no.

That’s the ultimate conundrum.

But to those who felt our prior HC was holding that team back how can they evaluate our current circumstance differently with even less playoff success.

Especially given we have had a better HC and arguably better or more talented overall team.

Who’s doing less with more?

 

[quickccc]

Nope ... Mac seems be leaving the RB game totally up to his asst. and OC, .. the run game scheme is awful, the OL coach
seems ill fit for RBs we have ... and the coaches will not use the RBs schematically in the pass game.

Rare RB screens, where are the quick swing momentum passes in the flat before LBs can get set in coverage ?
Isolations ? we just use our RBs for blitz blocking, and opposing D's not least bit concerned with them as receivers outta backfield. No threat.

 

[gimmesix]

That’s a fair analysis.

So who’s done more with less ?

Most would argue this is an overall more talented or better team. And we definitely have a more experienced and proven HC.

Garrett had the lesser defenses for sure. I mean, we had George Selvie as a starting DE in 2014. I'd argue in 2014, he had the better quarterback (prime Romo was better than prime Dak IMO), he had the better offensive line (Martin, Tyron and Frederick were all in their prime and Free was at least as good as Steele is right now, if not better). He also had a better running game than we had this year behind those linemen and a power back with speed in Murray. At receiver, he had Dez, Williams, Beasley, Harris and Witten as his starting tight end. IMO, that offense should have been elite and able to carry a weaker defense, but it was held back by Garrett. I think the 2023 offense had more weak links to overcome than that one did, other than the head coach.

 

[Diehardblues]

Garrett had the lesser defenses for sure. I mean, we had George Selvie as a starting DE in 2014. I'd argue in 2014, he had the better quarterback (prime Romo was better than prime Dak IMO), he had the better offensive line (Martin, Tyron and Frederick were all in their prime and Free was at least as good as Steele is right now, if not better). He also had a better running game than we had this year behind those linemen and a power back with speed in Murray. At receiver, he had Dez, Williams, Beasley, Harris and Witten as his starting tight end. IMO, that offense should have been elite and able to carry a weaker defense, but it was held back by Garrett. I think the 2023 offense had more weak links to overcome than that one did, other than the head coach.

I’d agree those defenses were inept, all below average. I’d also agree the 2014 offense was as close to championship caliber we’ve had this era. Whether it was enough to overcome the defense is arguable.

But IMO that was one of our best opportunities to reach a NFCCG. We were a controversial Dez catch from taking the lead late. Not sure I’d argue our HC held them back.

2016 is a better argument our coaching held us back along with I believe even a worse defense than 2014 with an offense which was formidable albeit the Rookie debut for Dak and Zeke. It took a miraculous 3rd and 20 by Rodgers to upset our top seed. Coaching no doubt should be held somewhat responsible much like this season .

Both of these opportunities though we were definitely on the cusp of making our first NFCCG this era. Closer IMO than any of these last 3 seasons. And why I’d argue that coaching staff did as much if not more with what they had than this coaching staff.

 

[gimmesix]

I’d agree those defenses were inept, all below average. I’d also agree the 2014 offense was as close to championship caliber we’ve had this era. Whether it was enough to overcome the defense is arguable.

But IMO that was one of our best opportunities to reach a NFCCG. We were a controversial Dez catch from taking the lead late. Not sure I’d argue our HC held them back.

2016 is a better argument our coaching held us back along with I believe even a worse defense than 2014 with an offense which was formidable albeit the Rookie debut for Dak and Zeke. It took a miraculous 3rd and 20 by Rodgers to upset our top seed. Coaching no doubt should be held somewhat responsible much like this season .

Both of these opportunities though we were definitely on the cusp of making our first NFCCG this era. Closer IMO than any of these last 3 seasons. And why I’d argue that coaching staff did as much if not more with what they had than this coaching staff.

It took me years to reach the conclusion that Garrett's system was the problem. That doesn't mean it was a complete problem. It could just only take an offense so far because it lacked creativity. He had a mano-a-mano philosophy -- my guy is going to execute what we do and beat your guy -- but it was a philosophy essentially based on those 90s teams that we had that could do that. As some of the players back then said, defenses knew what was coming and couldn't stop it. Garrett wanted the same thing but failed to acknowledge in this salary cap age that you can't put together that kind of roster. No matter how much you try, you can't build a team in this age that can win on execution alone ... and I think the 2014 and 2016 teams on offense showed that despite the talent on those teams.

One of the reasons Moore drew so much praise is because he at least added motion to Garrett's philosophy/scheme, while Garrett took his philosophy to a less-talented team and failed miserably there.

I like some of what McCarthy does in the passing game much better than what we saw from Garrett, but I didn't care for the step back he took with the run game, which I think negated some of the progress. But I also think the line that Garrett built (and I give him a lot of credit for that) is showing cracks and hasn't been the same since losing Frederick. I still think we have a better shot at getting to an NFC title game with McCarthy than we did with Garrett, but as coaches have said, talent is more important than coaching and the Joneses have not been doing a good job for a very long time of acquiring enough talent. As much talent, for example, as those 2014 and 2016 teams had on offense, the Joneses allowed the defense to lag when a very good defense to go along with that very good offense might have been enough.

Last year, the Joneses went cheap at some key positions and it cost us. A year after having a poor plan at receiver, they did the same thing at running back (I mean, what they did was pretty much parallel to the previous year's failure). And there are other spots that may have made a difference if they had been addressed.

 

[Diehardblues]

It took me years to reach the conclusion that Garrett's system was the problem. That doesn't mean it was a complete problem. It could just only take an offense so far because it lacked creativity. He had a mano-a-mano philosophy -- my guy is going to execute what we do and beat your guy -- but it was a philosophy essentially based on those 90s teams that we had that could do that. As some of the players back then said, defenses knew what was coming and couldn't stop it. Garrett wanted the same thing but failed to acknowledge in this salary cap age that you can't put together that kind of roster. No matter how much you try, you can't build a team in this age that can win on execution alone ... and I think the 2014 and 2016 teams on offense showed that despite the talent on those teams.

One of the reasons Moore drew so much praise is because he at least added motion to Garrett's philosophy/scheme, while Garrett took his philosophy to a less-talented team and failed miserably there.

I like some of what McCarthy does in the passing game much better than what we saw from Garrett, but I didn't care for the step back he took with the run game, which I think negated some of the progress. But I also think the line that Garrett built (and I give him a lot of credit for that) is showing cracks and hasn't been the same since losing Frederick. I still think we have a better shot at getting to an NFC title game with McCarthy than we did with Garrett, but as coaches have said, talent is more important than coaching and the Joneses have not been doing a good job for a very long time of acquiring enough talent. As much talent, for example, as those 2014 and 2016 teams had on offense, the Joneses allowed the defense to lag when a very good defense to go along with that very good offense might have been enough.

Last year, the Joneses went cheap at some key positions and it cost us. A year after having a poor plan at receiver, they did the same thing at running back (I mean, what they did was pretty much parallel to the previous year's failure). And there are other spots that may have made a difference if they had been addressed.

Much like I think this team and talent is over hyped so was that team.

Just like those three 8-8 teams I felt were really bad teams propped up by Romo. The fact we were even in the division race up until final week was over achieving IMO while a rebuild was ongoing. The fact we got close presented the perception we came up short.

The culmination of that rebuild was 2014. And could have been 2015 if Romo didn’t go down. 2016 was an extension of it adding in Dak and Zeke which we’d see come and go in coming years with never enough to go deeper.

But much like I feel now with this team none of our teams this era with maybe exception of 2007 team should have made NFCCG. That said 2014 and 2016 could have made it. I just don’t think they necessarily deserved to be. I would have liked our chances in 2016 playoffs better with Romo but that’s another discussion.

And that’s similar to how I feel with this team. I haven’t felt it should be going deeper. SF was no doubt the better team both years. This year GB was an upset but we weren’t playing that well against better teams and were lucky to be 2 seed which fell into our lap with Egirls collapse and Dumb Dan unbelievable stubborn in 2 point conversion which provided this false perception at 2 seed.

Basically I haven’t seen a Cowboys team this era that really is a championship caliber team. And I’m not totally sold Dak or Romo were enough to carry a team with weaknesses we have had.

But my bigger point here remains who has done the most or less with talent and team they have along with the coaching experience they bring . The fact our least qualified HC in Cowboys history with arguably no better of overall teams doesn’t bode well for this current team and staff IMO. And if that continues our former HC shouldn’t be bashed anymore than the current one or others this era who came up short.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Only thing that saves this team is one hell of a draft and FA period.

 

[gimmesix]

But my bigger point here remains who has done the most or less with talent and team they have along with the coaching experience they bring . The fact our least qualified HC in Cowboys history with arguably no better of overall teams doesn’t bode well for this current team and staff IMO. And if that continues our former HC shouldn’t be bashed anymore than the current one or others this era who came up short.

I just don't think Garrett did more with less. I think Garrett had elite-caliber talent on offense and coached it to very good levels. With a little creativity, scheming players open, it could have lived up to its talent level. Would that have been enough ultimately to overcome our defensive shortcomings? I don't know.

This McCarthy team had shortcomings on both sides of the ball talentwise that sunk it. If you disagree, tell me where the 2014 offense was short on talent.

 

[Diehardblues]

I just don't think Garrett did more with less. I think Garrett had elite-caliber talent on offense and coached it to very good levels. With a little creativity, scheming players open, it could have lived up to its talent level. Would that have been enough ultimately to overcome our defensive shortcomings? I don't know.

This McCarthy team had shortcomings on both sides of the ball talentwise that sunk it. If you disagree, tell me where the 2014 offense was short on talent.

I stated the 2014 offensive team was championship caliber . But the defense was below average.

So, you think McCarthy has done more with less?

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I’d like to think so. Our 1st three consecutive playoff appearances and 1st 3 consecutive 12 win seasons are definitely our best mark this era.

But if playoff success is the ultimate measurement and getting closer to appearing in a championship game , are we really closer?

We have only made it to the Divisional round once under McCarthy in this 3 year streak. And he still only has 1 playoff win.

MM is arguably our best HC this era , at least since Bill. He at least came to us with a SB ring and long history of success in Green Bay. And I think most would or have argued this is our most talented roster this era or at least since Bill. And who knows if Jethro would attract a more experienced or named HC.

So , how were the Cowboys able to have more playoff success from 2014- 2018 with 3 Divisional round appearances which can be argued took us closer to championship appearances than under MM.

It could be argued 2014 and 2016 we were the closet. Losing one opportunity to the Dez catch that wasn’t in Green Bay and a miraculous 3rd and 20 by Rodgers against same team.

I haven’t seen a Cowboys playoff team under MM which looked as good or on the threshold of advancing as either of those teams . And we didn’t ever lay as big of egg choking in playoffs either.

I obviously wouldn’t want to go back but in the end if we don’t have any more success with this team I think there could come a time we give some props to our most under qualified and least experienced HC in Cowboys history. One who at least so far had the best 5 year stretch ( if we are counting playoff success) this era.

Which might be a stronger argument in how bad this era has been that a HC like that would have had the most playoff success this era.

Jiminey! Cowboys face FA defections, locker room squabbling, new defensive scheme, and big holes re LB, RB and DE.
The rest of the league is not sitting idly. The elite others are always gunning for us.
In 2024, I see us taking a step back and being a wild card in the playoffs.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Cowboys are not close to anything meaningful

/thread

I'd say we are all in for mediocrity.

 

[Diehardblues]

Jiminey! Cowboys face FA defections, locker room squabbling, new defensive scheme, and big holes re LB, RB and DE.
The rest of the league is not sitting idly. The elite others are always gunning for us.
In 2024, I see us taking a step back and being a wild card in the playoffs.

We should have been WC this year . If not for Egirls major collapse and Lions stubbornly stupidity going for 2 three times we would have been 5th seed.

 

[kevm3]

I just don't see it. McCarthy simply doesn't get teams up for the big games and doesn't instill toughness in them to be able to hang with physical teams.

Unless Zimmer just completely changes the culture of the team and makes us super physical, I just don't see it.