Are electric cars the future?

[1942willys]

Does increased energy efficiency create capacity? Seems like every new version of every electrical appliance uses lot less energy.

DO the math. Its not that hard to figure out

 

[Flamma]

No, some folks are just prisoners of the moment and pick at the short comings of the technology as if it’s reached its pinnacle.

It hasn’t.

Battery technology is improving exponentially as most technology where investment in time and money is spent (see Moore’s law).

If you’re thinking the present day battery tech will be the same tomorrow (5-10 years) as it is today, I wouldn’t make that bet.

What kind of technological jump do you expect? When my low fuel light comes on, I have more range than a Chevy Bolt fully charged. The only thing I don't like about these vehicles is that they are being pushed on people. Let the technology get there. Let it be the clear choice without having to pay people to make that choice.

Then they have to upgrade the grid in a lot of these states.

Let's say for example we've been driving around in EVs for the past 100 years. Then this new ICE vehicle comes out. It gives you 2-3 times the range in 5 minutes. You don't have to worry about the cold, heat, wind, hills, or planning your life around your vehicle on long trips. Then when you do find a gas station, it works. It's a simple pump. No cell phone or apps needed. Just flash your credit card and start filling up. The conversion would be near instantaneous. There would be no incentives needed.

 

[Flamma]

Most people do not understand how stressed the grid is every summer in most of the country. California has brownouts regularly NOW and if there are more EVs it is going to be rolling blackouts all the time

California has already urged people to avoid plugging in during peak hours.

 

[1942willys]

You aren’t friends with the facts are you. Keep your head in the sand where it belongs.

you are the same one that tried to claim 14% of the vehicles in the US sold were electric like that is some kind of huge number
that means 86% ARE NOT
1.47 BILLION VEHICLES and only 20 million of them are electric and you think that the percentage is going to swing that much in just a few years?
and I am not surprised that someone with such a limited grasp on reality would ignore the problems with the electrical grid

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I have a bmw i3. It only has 110 miles of range, but I drive 25 miles round trip to work. It’s nice charging on a standard plug and never going to the gas station.

I would never force an EV on someone, but for me, I love it.

That's the thing - neither electric or ICE cars are the perfect answer for all situations. For someone like you that drives limited miles a day, electric makes perfect sense. And driving them in large cities helps clear the air, which helps other people at well.

But for people who live in Texas or Montana or California or such, where you can easily drive 500 miles and still be in the state, or drive lots of miles a day for their jobs or such, electrics aren't practical.

Society, if left alone and not forced into things by the government, will work things out on their own. If electric cars are a good idea, people will do what works best....

 

[Runwildboys]

Man, we can manage to make any topic contentious!

 

[VaqueroTD]

No. For some vehicles, like semi-trucks, it’s just stupid. But bottom line is it doesn’t solve anything, just reroutes the power needs from the gas station to the power plants. Still causes emissions using whatever resources were needed for that power plant to power up your vehicle or manufacturing plant to produce your new electric car. And good luck figuring out how to rebuild the power grid. Right now electric cars are only 3% of new car purchases. Either reduce the need for energy, or continue to experiment with other sources such as hydrogen or nuclear fusion. Because solar or wind won’t provide enough power, fossil fuels are not sustainable long-term, and nuclear fission can be messy. USA consumes power like a mother and we are trying to bring the entire world behind us. Need another solution if this is the end game.

In my opinion they are not. They are a novelty. If they were to compete on a level playing field, they would fail.

Does anyone like them? I'll admit, I think they are interesting. But I wouldn't buy one to be my regular car. I might buy one as a toy if I find money to burn.

 

[VaqueroTD]

I live in Europe and we're already at close to 20% of vehicle sales. I dont know about the US, but in Europe the infrastructure is here. There are also very generous tax and other incentives. For example, public sector workers can charge for free at work.

Much easier to use the train throughout Europe too?

 

[SlammedZero]

With the ever-growing technology we have in the world today, I oddly find electric cars are the "most feared" (for lack of a better term) technology. It's crazy to me. There are so many people that are pushing back on this evolution and I have no idea what they're so afraid of. I wonder if people in the early 1900s talked down on the production of the automobile? "They'll never replace the horse!".

Yes, they're coming. Yes, they're still in their infancy. Time and tech will improve them. Now they may not be the only option, as I know there have been advancements on alternative fuels (Toyota has been working on Hydrogen vehicles), but ICE are on their deathbed. Sure, it's going to be a gradual process and take some time, but it's in our future. Not only are fossil fuels finite, but we need to start reducing emissions.

 

[Rockport]

No. For some vehicles, like semi-trucks, it’s just stupid. But bottom line is it doesn’t solve anything, just reroutes the power needs from the gas station to the power plants. Still causes emissions using whatever resources were needed for that power plant to power up your vehicle or manufacturing plant to produce your new electric car. And good luck figuring out how to rebuild the power grid. Right now electric cars are only 3% of new car purchases. Either reduce the need for energy, or continue to experiment with other sources such as hydrogen or nuclear fusion. Because solar or wind won’t provide enough power, fossil fuels are not sustainable long-term, and nuclear fission can be messy. USA consumes power like a mother and we are trying to bring the entire world behind us. Need another solution if this is the end game.

EV’s are 14% of new car sales in the US and predicted to exponentially explode in sales this year and beyond. You guys got your heads up your okole with your bias.

 

[Quickdraw]

EV’s are 14% of new car sales in the US and predicted to exponentially explode in sales this year and beyond. You guys got your heads up your okole with your bias.A

Auto makers are scaling back their EV efforts because people are not buying them. Most people don't want them because they cannot afford them. I'm sure there are many other reasons as well. If you want one, good for you, but most people don't.

 

[rags747]

I have 4 Italian toys for myself and the wife has a Model Y Performance. The Tesla was invented from the ground up unlike Ford, GM, Mercedes, VW etc. Zero range anxiety with a Tesla as Elon built out the Supercharger network unlike all of the others. No greenbacks, charge/debit cards required when charging on the road, plug in and the car is recognized and the card on file is debited. 1 pedal driving is a huge improvement over having to use a brake pedal, rarely will u,use a brake pedal ever again, get in the car and go, get out of the car and walk away, never turn on or off, all recognized by your phone, no keys. Leave the car and Gimme Shelter was playing, get back in the car and the music picks up where it left off. The technology available is out of this world. Zero maintenance schedule. At any Red light the knowledge that you can blow anyone off of the line is quite wonderful. See an opening and go for it with ease. Instant on power is intoxicating. I could care less about being green, I bought it for the tech and speed.

 

[Creeper]

No, some folks are just prisoners of the moment and pick at the short comings of the technology as if it’s reached its pinnacle.

It hasn’t.

Battery technology is improving exponentially as most technology where investment in time and money is spent (see Moore’s law).

If you’re thinking the present day battery tech will be the same tomorrow (5-10 years) as it is today, I wouldn’t make that bet.

I agree in general. But I do wonder if the fundamental design of energy storage will have to change to get us to where we need to be. Will we find a way to pack more energy into smaller spaces using technology that does not yet exist? Can we create some kind of "reactors" that produce electrical energy on demand? Probably not in the next 50 years, but is this the way of the future rather than the trying to squeeze the every last bit of efficiency out of current technology?

 

[VaqueroTD]

EV’s are 14% of new car sales in the US and predicted to exponentially explode in sales this year and beyond. You guys got your heads up your okole with your bias.

I think both of us are wrong?

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-i..., the EV share,317,168 and 8.1%, respectively.

Total market share 7.6% of all vehicles. 8.1% of vehicles sold in Q4 2023.

Also.. I can’t find out if they include hybrids in these numbers. Either way, that’s a heck of a lot more power grid needed to achieve 100% EVs. And my original point is where is the emission controls if 60% of power grid is generated by fossil fuels anyways, 20% nuclear fission, and only 20% on renewable such as solar, wind, hydro and geothermal. And If we think we’re going to remain a consumer culture and buy new cars every few years, who is accounting for all the emissions and leftover junk caused by the heavy manufacturing of all these EVs. It’s a culture change even if someone can come up with the magical cure which IMO is nuclear fusion, but you still suffer from the overpopulation and car consumer culture.

Other good numbers at that site. Still more of a luxury than an average joe purchase.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

JUST A REMINDER TO LEAVE POLITICS OFF THE FORUM.

 

[Runwildboys]

I think both of us are wrong?

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/#:~:text=In 2023, the EV share,317,168 and 8.1%, respectively.

Total market share 7.6% of all vehicles. 8.1% of vehicles sold in Q4 2023.

Also.. I can’t find out if they include hybrids in these numbers. Either way, that’s a heck of a lot more power grid needed to achieve 100% EVs. And my original point is where is the emission controls if 60% of power grid is generated by fossil fuels anyways, 20% nuclear fission, and only 20% on renewable such as solar, wind, hydro and geothermal. And If we think we’re going to remain a consumer culture and buy new cars every few years, who is accounting for all the emissions and leftover junk caused by the heavy manufacturing of all these EVs. It’s a culture change even if someone can come up with the magical cure which IMO is nuclear fusion, but you still suffer from the overpopulation and car consumer culture.

Other good numbers at that site. Still more of a luxury than an average joe purchase.

I'm sure someone here in CZ can figure out how to obtain and employ antimatter.

 

[DoctorChicken]

It's difficult to answer whether the electric car is the future or not. A more efficient energy source could come along. The internal combustion engine is not the future. I like the sound of a V8 as much as the next person, but technology advances.

I believe for the next decade or so, auto manufacturers are going to be moving towards smaller ICE/hybrids instead of making a drastic, overnight switch to electric.

Look at the new Tacoma, for instance. It has a whiny 4 popper in it, yet can put down 317 ft lb of torque and tow 6,500 lbs. The new Chevy Silverado has a 4 cylinder option too, and it can tow up to 9,200 lbs.

Before the majority of new cars are all electric (or whatever energy source), they'll be majority turbo 4-cylinders.

 

[Stash]

For those interested, I found this article that tries to dispel some myths about EV’s and the power grid.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions

 

[Rockport]

Auto makers are scaling back their EV efforts because people are not buying them. Most people don't want them because they cannot afford them. I'm sure there are many other reasons as well. If you want one, good for you, but most people don't.

I don’t have one although I do have a Tesla Solar system. I pay $25 service charge a month for electricity. EVsales are forecast to skyrocket in the coming years.

 

[Rockport]

I think both of us are wrong?

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2023-ev-sales/#:~:text=In 2023, the EV share,317,168 and 8.1%, respectively.

Total market share 7.6% of all vehicles. 8.1% of vehicles sold in Q4 2023.

Also.. I can’t find out if they include hybrids in these numbers. Either way, that’s a heck of a lot more power grid needed to achieve 100% EVs. And my original point is where is the emission controls if 60% of power grid is generated by fossil fuels anyways, 20% nuclear fission, and only 20% on renewable such as solar, wind, hydro and geothermal. And If we think we’re going to remain a consumer culture and buy new cars every few years, who is accounting for all the emissions and leftover junk caused by the heavy manufacturing of all these EVs. It’s a culture change even if someone can come up with the magical cure which IMO is nuclear fusion, but you still suffer from the overpopulation and car consumer culture.

Other good numbers at that site. Still more of a luxury than an average joe purchase.

Depends on your source I guess.

https://www.goldmansachs.com/intell...,be well over 80% in many developed countries.