Aviation

[gtb1943]

You just may be right. Personally I think we screwed up here. Next generation fighters, bombers etc should be 100% non human piloted. Really zero need anymore.

and if someone hacks them?
bad idea

 

[CyberB0b]

You just may be right. Personally I think we screwed up here. Next generation fighters, bombers etc should be 100% non human piloted. Really zero need anymore.

I think fighters are going to be pretty obsolete soon. Swarming drones are much cheaper and more versatile.

 

[gtb1943]

I think fighters are going to be pretty obsolete soon. Swarming drones are much cheaper and more versatile.

we shall see

going to be interesting to watch as the battle will really be for control of all these computer driven machines

 

[Flamma]

Something I found interesting. Sometime in the early 80s President Reagan fired around 13,000 air traffic controllers. Around 9-10k were hired at around that time. Then around 30 years later they all retired at around the same time. Keep in mind, you can't be an ATC past the age of 56 in the US. That created a shortage that remains to this day. More air traffic controllers were fired by Reagan than there are air traffic controllers working today. There is also probably more air traffic than there was back in the early 80s. Something to think about.

 

[gtb1943]

Something I found interesting. Sometime in the early 80s President Reagan fired around 13,000 air traffic controllers. Around 9-10k were hired at around that time. Then around 30 years later they all retired at around the same time. Keep in mind, you can't be an ATC past the age of 56 in the US. That created a shortage that remains to this day. More air traffic controllers were fired by Reagan than there are air traffic controllers working today. There is also probably more air traffic than there was back in the early 80s. Something to think about.

its an incredibly stress filled job at the major airports.

and always in the back of your mind the possibility of screwing up and killing hundreds

It seems clear that the FAA has not done a good job of finding enough. Out of a population of well over three hundred million, getting the 15,000 or so needed should be a straightforward job requiring planning and organization and common sense.

That does not sound like the Federal Government's strong suit

 

[rags747]

At some point u would think that AI should be able to handle everything that our current air traffic controllers handle, much more quickly, efficiently and cheaper too.

 

[Flamma]

its an incredibly stress filled job at the major airports.

and always in the back of your mind the possibility of screwing up and killing hundreds

It seems clear that the FAA has not done a good job of finding enough. Out of a population of well over three hundred million, getting the 15,000 or so needed should be a straightforward job requiring planning and organization and common sense.

That does not sound like the Federal Government's strong suit

From what I heard, training capable ATCs is very time consuming. It can take 3 years. Then almost half of those never make it to the tower. Another thing to consider is, how many people find this job appealing? Who wants a stressed filled job that could kill hundreds?

Of all the jobs to be short staffed and employees overworked, this should not be one of them. I would imagine you'd have to stay 100% focused on the job. Not easy to do for long periods of time.

 

[gtb1943]

From what I heard, training capable ATCs is very time consuming. It can take 3 years. Then almost half of those never make it to the tower. Another thing to consider is, how many people find this job appealing? Who wants a stressed filled job that could kill hundreds?

Of all the jobs to be short staffed and employees overworked, this should not be one of them. I would imagine you'd have to stay 100% focused on the job. Not easy to do for long periods of time.

this is just me, joe schmoe, but if I was running it I would rotate the people in the high stress areas like Kennedy and so on to the smaller slower places every couple of years. Never leave anyone dealing with the worst for more than a year or two. Especially during the highest traffic times.

 

[Flamma]

this is just me, joe schmoe, but if I was running it I would rotate the people in the high stress areas like Kennedy and so on to the smaller slower places every couple of years. Never leave anyone dealing with the worst for more than a year or two. Especially during the highest traffic times.

You could not have picked a better example. Maybe one equal to, but not better. I just recently watched something on a Kennedy airport incident. The incident isn't important, the traffic is insane. It made me come to the conclusion that the northeast has too many planes and too few runways. Although your suggestion makes perfect sense, I think all of the ATCs are union. That's a separate issue. As a union member all of my life, I can tell you that many people prefer higher workloads just to be closer to home. I look at it differently. I'll drive further to make my 8 hours at work easier. But I'm in the minority.

Kennedy tries to get over 30 planes an hour landed. That's minimum. During busy times they can have close to two dozen planes in holding patterns near the airport. Some holding patters have to overlap others, but they are at different altitudes. Then the ones flying in from Europe get priority due to fuel concerns. When I got a visual of what it looked like above and near Kennedy airport, I was shocked. Passengers land. But they never knew they were flying in circles for the past hour or so.

 

[gtb1943]

Not terribly surprised about Kennedy.
Advances in tech have helped some but it is still high stress to the max

Bluntly speaking the ATC administrator needs to be concerned about safety and look at it strictly from that point of view but politics and everything else always interferes.

Do not over work anyone no matter what; hard tough rules about how long anyone works in a place like Kennedy.

 

[rags747]

From what I heard, training capable ATCs is very time consuming. It can take 3 years. Then almost half of those never make it to the tower. Another thing to consider is, how many people find this job appealing? Who wants a stressed filled job that could kill hundreds?

Of all the jobs to be short staffed and employees overworked, this should not be one of them. I would imagine you'd have to stay 100% focused on the job. Not easy to do for long periods of time.

People who thrive in a multitasking enviornment and get pleasure out of it would find these jobs right up their alley. How much do they make? Healthcare, 401k, pension, vacation time would make it very appealing to the right type of individuals I imagine.

 

[rags747]

You could not have picked a better example. Maybe one equal to, but not better. I just recently watched something on a Kennedy airport incident. The incident isn't important, the traffic is insane. It made me come to the conclusion that the northeast has too many planes and too few runways. Although your suggestion makes perfect sense, I think all of the ATCs are union. That's a separate issue. As a union member all of my life, I can tell you that many people prefer higher workloads just to be closer to home. I look at it differently. I'll drive further to make my 8 hours at work easier. But I'm in the minority.

Kennedy tries to get over 30 planes an hour landed. That's minimum. During busy times they can have close to two dozen planes in holding patterns near the airport. Some holding patters have to overlap others, but they are at different altitudes. Then the ones flying in from Europe get priority due to fuel concerns. When I got a visual of what it looked like above and near Kennedy airport, I was shocked. Passengers land. But they never knew they were flying in circles for the past hour or so.

Do u have money outside of your regular gig? That can make a huge difference in peoples appetite for stress.

 

[Flamma]

Do u have money outside of your regular gig? That can make a huge difference in peoples appetite for stress.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The answer is no. My appetite for stress is also zero. But maybe that's what you meant.

People who thrive in a multitasking enviornment and get pleasure out of it would find these jobs right up their alley. How much do they make? Healthcare, 401k, pension, vacation time would make it very appealing to the right type of individuals I imagine.

But it's not just a multitasking environment, it's high responsibility. Although I believe there are people out there that gravitate towards that kind of thing, how big of a pool are we talking about? Is the compensation good enough to draw them to ATC over something else?

Compensation can be a deciding factor. About 6 years ago I retreated from a job with responsibility to one without. Losing a little in the process. But I still make almost 70k a year for doing almost nothing, with no responsibility. Why would I want to take on more if I don't have to? It needs to be worth it.