Barkley at #18?

[DFWJC]

Matt Barkley - QB - Trojans
National Football Post's Dan Pompei was told by multiple executives that USC QB Matt Barkley has some of the "it" factor.
"I think Barkley is special that way. He has some ‘it’ factor to him. The personality is there with Barkley," a general manager said. "We ask them questions, try to get a feel for how much they love football, and see if they have a special trait that makes people want to be around them and listen to them. It all comes through with him." One executive said Barkley had the best vision and anticipation of all passers.
Source: National Football Post Mar 4 - 4:05 PM

A couple of other SC guys did too--certainly Sanchez and Leinart.

 

[TheFinisher]

idk man, Ej is a little raw, but the kid made some plays all year long, right up until the senior bowl. Good size and speed as well. I think he would do well to sit behind Tony for a bit.

I agree, he's improved every year and even this year on a weekly basis all the way up to the Senior Bowl. NFL coaches love to see that, it means the kid is recepetive to what he's being taught aka being coachable.

He's got a lot of the physical tools teams look for in QBs, he'd be a great developmental guy in the middle rounds.

 

[respectdatstar]

Matt Barkley's ceiling is Alex Smith, his target level is Matt Cassell or maybe Mark Sanchez, and he has a real chance to be Matt Leinart.

With all the needs that the Cowboys have, why on earth would you choose this year--by all accounts a terrible QB year--to spend our 1st round pick on this player.

Been wrong before, so...its jmo.

You couldn't come up with a USC QB for his ceiling?

 

[DFWJC]

You couldn't come up with a USC QB for his ceiling?

Oh, that's bad.

How about ...Pat Haden.
Kidding

 

[TheFinisher]

Oh, that's bad.

How about ...Pat Haden.
Kidding

It's funny how those raising the anti-USC QB argument always find a way to leave out Carson Palmer and how he won MVP in just his 2nd season under center... but USC QBs suckzz in teh NFLzz!!

It's a shame he tore his knee and later destroyed his elbow, because he developed into an elite QB faster than Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc.

 

[DFWJC]

It's funny how those raising the anti-USC QB argument always find a way to leave out Carson Palmer and the fact he was MVP his 2nd season under center... but USC QBs suckzz in teh NFLzz!!

Yeah. I have mentioned Carson Palmer...only positively (post14).
I just didn't see him as a good ceiling example because that ceiling seems too high for Barkley. It was a compliment to Palmer, actually.
I thought Alex Smith was a better comparable.
That is still a starting NFL QB, so it could be much worse.

 

[TheFinisher]

Yeah. I have mentioned Carson Palmer...only positively (post14).
I just didn't see him as a good ceiling example because that ceiling seems too high for Barkley. It was a compliment to Palmer, actually.
I thought Alex Smith was a better comparable.
That is still a starting NFL QB, so it could be much worse.

What are the similarities between Alex Smith and Barkley as prospects?

 

[DFWJC]

What are the similarities between Alex Smith and Barkley as prospects?

Smith has the advantage in many areas--mobility, height, athleticism, accuracy under duress, and possibly even arm strength--that is why I said "ceiling".

But they are both mentally sharp QBs pre-snap and are both accurate if given time to set their feet. Barkley is not super athletic, but he can move around if needed.
Barkley claims his arm is better than he has shown, so I give him a chance at the next level.


My issue with this thread was the Barkley to Dallas at 18. I just don't think he's worthy of the the 18th pick, plus, that is near the bottom of my need list in the 1st round. BPA first though.

That does not mean I don't think Barkely will go in the 1st round. He really could end up going to AZ or someone else. He may even turn out to be a decent starting QB. I think I saw one eval site compare him to Mark Bulger.

I used Smith because I see him as being able to guide a team with a steady hand if they don't ask too much of him....and have some success doing so.

 

[Doomsday101]

I like him but not at 18. I guess I'm just not sold on him as some are. I doubt he would be there in rd 3 but that would be the only way I would go after Barkley.

 

[TheFinisher]

Smith has the advantage in many areas--mobility, height, athleticism, accuracy under duress, and possibly even arm strength--that is why I said "ceiling".

But they are both mentally sharp QBs pre-snap and are both accurate if given time to set their feet. Barkley is not super athletic, but he can move around if needed.
Barkley claims his arm is better than he has shown, so I give him a chance at the next level.


My issue with this thread was the Barkley to Dallas at 18. I just don't think he's worthy of the the 18th pick, plus, that is near the bottom of my need list in the 1st round. BPA first though.

That does not mean I don't think Barkely will go in the 1st round. He really could end up going to AZ or someone else. He may even turn out to be a decent starting QB. I think I saw one eval site compare him to Mark Bulger.

I used Smith because I see him as being able to guide a team with a steady hand if they don't ask too much of him....and have some success doing so.

I still don't see how you're comparing him to Smith, their playing styles are nothing alike. It's like comparing Andrew Luck and RG3.

 

[DFWJC]

I still don't see how you're comparing him to Smith, their playing styles are nothing alike.

Yeah. It was more the mental side and bus driver potential.

Probably could have used someone else, maybe Bulger like some others are using... in a positive light.

I mean, he's not amazingly accurate, he's not known to have a cannon arm, he's not very mobile, not fast at all, and he's 6'2. I thought using Alex Smith was a complement.

Who would you suggest represents his upside?

I say all of this and yet will not be suprised if he does go fairly early. If he's lucky enough to go tot team with a good oline and run game, he may even step ina help fairly early.

 

[TheFinisher]

Yeah. It was more the mental side and bus driver potential.

Probably could have used someone else, maybe Bulger like some others are using... in a positive light.

I mean, he's not amazingly accurate, he's not known to have a cannon arm, he's not very mobile, not fast at all, and he's 6'2. I thought using Alex Smith was a complement.

Who would you suggest represents his upside?

I say all of this and yet will not be suprised if he does go fairly early. If he's lucky enough to go tot team with a good oline and run game, he may even step ina help fairly early.

I already spoke at lengths about what I think about Barkley in a post and I'll quote it for you below, but I 100% disagree with you on Barkley and Smith being similar on the "mental side". Smith was extremely raw at Utah and needed to be taught at the professional level of how to be a dropback passer. He never learned how to go through progressions at Utah and operate an NFL style offense, and 7 years later he still hasn't gotten it. Barkley on the other hand is advanced at this stage with understanding how to operate an offense, he's been running an NFL scheme for 4 years and from the neck up compares favorably to Andrew Luck. He has a tremendous IQ for the game. There are certainly things you can pick on Barkley for, but the "mental side" is the wrong argument.

And I hate comparisons in general because no two players are the same, but if I had to give you one I'd say he could be similarly effective from the pocket as Rich Gannon in his Oakland Raider years. Kurt Warner and Drew Brees are some other guys who had a lot of similar strengths and weaknesses as Barkley. Obviously the situation he lands in will effect what kind of success he has, but I see no major issues stopping him from being a good player. The question of arm strength is the only thing stopping him from being a top level QB prospect, but as long as it's "good enough" I find arm strength to be overrated in terms of how important it is to QB play. He'll also have an opportunity to answer those questions on his Pro Day.

He didn't have the team success that many expected coming into the year but there's just too many positives about this kid for me to believe he won't be a quality NFL starter. First, I think he answered a huge question at the combine when he checked in at nearly 6'3, 227lbs with over 10 inch hands. His suggested size was a major flag for him, I think many expected him to be 6'1 or shorter (drawing some Drew Brees discussion) but he clearly has the ideal measurables for the position.

Another thing I like about him is he's been a 4 year starter, and for the majority of that time he's been incredibly consistent operating a pro style offense against top level competition. He's displayed good-great accuracy, touch and ball placement throughout his career and understands how to throw his receivers open. He's as polished as they come, repetition has embedded him with an advanced familiarity of going through his progressions, manipulating defenders, and making good decisions with the football.

Additionally, due to a porous offensive line this season, we got to see how he operates under duress in the pocket. The results have been mixed, I thought he played a very good game against Utah showing off the ability to move around the pocket, buy time, and throw off different platforms. The 2nd half of the Stanford game was tough to watch, but I can't say he performed as poorly as people make it out to be due to how badly they were getting beat up front. I think you throw Andrew Luck in that situation and the results are similar. The 3rd game I wanted to touch on was the UCLA game. It started off horribly for SC but I thought Barkley showed some real resilience and poise, nearly bringing them all the way back. Overall, I came away pleased with what Barkley showed. It wasn't always pretty, but there were enough positives were I thought he improvised, made smart decisions with the football under pressure and will only improve on that over time.

The arm strength and what that means for him will likely continue to be under scrutiny until we see him in NFL action. That being said, I don't see a death sentence for Barkley when measuring his arm strength. I don't think he'll get away with some of the off balance throws someone like Aaron Rodgers does but how many QBs can? With Barkley's arm I see it falling somewhere in the Matt Ryan range, not the strongest but it rarely affects how he's able to play the game.

Lastly, I like the leadership qualities he brings to the table. He's someone I can envision being the face of a franchise. He dealt with his fair share of adversity at USC. First with the sanctions, he could have easily transferred at any point or declared after his Junior season but he stuck it out, honored the commitment, and passed up the money to try and win a NC with his teammates. He's also by all accounts a hard worker on the field and in the film room. Those intangibles are going to make him easily likable in an NFL lockerroom and will help him win over teammates.

I think if he lands in a rhythm and timing based offense like the Pats or Saints run or any West Coast type offense his ceiling is a Pro-Bowl caliber QB. Regardless, I see a kid who can have a long career and operate a dangerous offense if surrounded with some blue chip weapons.

 

[DFWJC]

Barkley on the other hand is advanced at this stage with understanding how to operate an offense, he's been running an NFL scheme for 4 years and from the neck up compares favorably to Andrew Luck. He has a tremendous IQ for the game. There are certainly things you can pick on Barkley for, but the "mental side" is the wrong argument.
.

I can agree with this.

If you wish to remove Smith as the upside, I'm fine with that too. There are a have dozen advantages that Smith had over Barkely coming out, but for sure it was not NFL system readiness.
The comp was more regarding expected results than physical attributes. I thought that was clear, but guess not.
Your points about them not having the same skill sets is correct. Some would argue that is not a good thing for Barkley though.

 

[Doomsday101]

I can agree with this.

If you wish to remove Smith as the upside, I'm fine with that too. There are a have dozen advantages that Smith had over Barkely coming out, but for sure it was not NFL system readiness.
The comp was more regarding expected results than physical attributes. I thought that was clear, but guess not.
Your points about them not having the same skill sets is correct. Some would argue that is not a good thing for Barkley though.

It is also took Smith 6 years of poor play and fans wanting him gone before things turned around for his team and now he has lost his job. I don't think a QB is going to get a lot of time in Dallas before fans turn on him certainly not 6 to 7 years.

 

[ajk23az]

To me it's really funny. It really seems like the majority opinion on here is that we are nowhere close to winning a SB yet most of those people don't want to draft a new franchise QB like Barkley.

I think late first is the perfect value for Barkley. Right now, he isn't a top 5 pick but he has very good upside.

I really wouldn't mind drafting him in the 1st TBH. I know we have more pressing needs NOW but getting a year jump on the development of a QB can do wonders.

 

[TheFinisher]

I can agree with this.

If you wish to remove Smith as the upside, I'm fine with that too. There are a have dozen advantages that Smith had over Barkely coming out, but for sure it was not NFL system readiness.
The comp was more regarding expected results than physical attributes. I thought that was clear, but guess not.
Your points about them not having the same skill sets is correct. Some would argue that is not a good thing for Barkley though.

I guess that comes down to what you value in Quarterbacks. If it's height, speed and arm strength then you'll like Smith. If it's intelligence, accuracy and consistency you'll like Barkley.

I just don't think Barkley's weaknesses (arm strength, speed, height) are as bad as they're made out to be. He measured in 6'2 1/2 with huge hands, he's not Mike Vick but he'll run if it's there and he can definitely move around the pocket, and the arm strength will be heavily inspected on his Pro Day but I still think he has a good arm by NFL standards. Maybe not Stafford-esque, but more along the lines of Ryan, Romo, etc and that has not been death sentences for them. It's definitely not Colt McCoy/Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque.

 

[Doomsday101]

To me it's really funny. It really seems like the majority opinion on here is that we are nowhere close to winning a SB yet most of those people don't want to draft a new franchise QB like Barkley.

I think late first is the perfect value for Barkley. Right now, he isn't a top 5 pick but he has very good upside.

I really wouldn't mind drafting him in the 1st TBH. I know we have more pressing needs NOW but getting a year jump on the development of a QB can do wonders.

Some of us are not sold on him as a franchise QB. Using a 1st rd pick on a QB you don't believe in is the issue. I think Dallas should look to get a QB soon but I'm not overly impressed with this year’s so called top QB prospects.

 

[Doomsday101]

I guess that comes down to what you value in Quarterbacks. If it's height, speed and arm strength then you'll like Smith. If it's intelligence, accuracy and consistency you'll like Barkley.

I just don't think Barkley's weaknesses (arm strength, speed, height) are as bad as they're made out to be. He measured in 6'2 1/2 with huge hands, he's not Mike Vick but he'll run if it's there and he can definitely move around the pocket, and the arm strength will be heavily inspected on his Pro Day but I still think he has a good arm by NFL standards. Maybe not Stafford-esque, but more along the lines of Ryan, Romo, etc and that has not been death sentences for them. It's definitely not Colt McCoy/Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque.

True but then Romo was a low risk we did not give up a 1st rd pick to get him. I guess for me to use a 1st rd pick on a QB he has to awe me and Barkley while a fine college QB just hasn't, at least in my view. I think this is a critical draft for the Cowboys and just not sold that Barkley is going to be that QB

 

[burmafrd]

Barkley is Leinart Part Deux or Sanchez part Deux. either way a bust.

 

[ajk23az]

Some of us are not sold on him as a franchise QB. Using a 1st rd pick on a QB you don't believe in is the issue. I think Dallas should look to get a QB soon but I'm not overly impressed with this year’s so called top QB prospects.

Fair enough. But if he @ 18, I would hope we could trade back and still grab him. He's got the size, the footwork, the accuracy, the brain, but his arm strength is a little suspect. But there are a lot of top tier QBs that have "suspect arm strength". I, personally think arm strength is a little overrated.