Be honest, is this defense good enough to win a Super Bowl?

[quickccc]

and one thing about it is .. there have been defenses that drove the road to the Super bowl , that gave up big yardage, but they were so efficient at taking the ball over- turnovers that
it not only actually kept them in the game but it change the dynamics and turned critical momentum ( see Saints vs Vikes -NFC championship)

- and not just the Saints 2010 team, but I recall Packers (2011?) who were dismal in giving up yardage but were so turnover opportunist and ranked no.1 in that area in NFL.

 

[Oh_Canada]

I just think they need a dt who will not always rely on speed, but can collapse a pocket with there power or control it at the very least. Always look to what Bellichek is doing and he has two 315+ plus inside tackles starting for him.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I have heard a big fatty is not needed because they can't get to the QB? Da bears sure were flying around last night and collapsing the pocket and still stop the run also.

Khahil Mack was the disrupting force, and he's not a "big fatty".

It's not the size, it's the skill, Hill supposedly has the quickness Marinelli craves, but this isn't college, he'll face top notch guards and centers nearly every game, can he step up?
Otherwise the interior pocket collapsing has to be done with Collins, et al, because the chances of getting a top DT that can collapse the pocket is basically non-existent, unless Aaron Donald or such suddenly gets disgruntled and demands a trade, e.g., and that's not likely to happen...

 

[TheRomoSexual]

I'll let you know next week.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

If David Irving didn't look like he's lost 50 lbs in his Instagram pics I'd get on the phone with him and try to make amends. He is desperately needed on this defense.

Irving's problem was not with Dallas, it's with the NFL's stand on pot, there's nothing to make amends with Dallas, and even if there were, I'm sure if he wanted to play he'd jump at the chance to play on this team, with a powerhouse, varied offense, a Smith and LVE and Lee, a Pro Bowl corner in Jones, and competent special teams....

 

[quickccc]

I have heard a big fatty is not needed because they can't get to the QB? Da bears sure were flying around last night and collapsing the pocket and still stop the run also.

The bears run that 3-4 scheme, so they have to have good fatties in the middle and Eddie Goldman remains as one of the better NTs in NFL. pBut when I look at Bears defense , it’s both their rushers
upfront like Khali Mack, Akeem Hicks and Leonard Floyd .... as well as ball hawks such as Eddie Fuller, Haha Clinton Dix, and Eddie Jackson that are capitalizing on jumping the ball for INTs.
those elements help continue to make them among the very elite defenses - despite Vic Fangio’s departure.

Where are our disruptive rushers and ball hawks ?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I just think they need a dt who will not always rely on speed, but can collapse a pocket with there power or control it at the very least. Always look to what Bellichek is doing and he has two 315+ plus inside tackles starting for him.

Collins and Woods are 308 and 313, I seriously doubt another 2 and 7 lbs are the difference maker. I think maybe it's that the Pats' guys are good first and just happen to be 315 also, in other words if they both went on a diet and lost 10 lbs each they'd still be good at rushing the passer and collapsing the pocket.

I checked the other day on the top 10 rated DTs in the league, 6 of the 10 weighed less than Woods, so it's not the size, it's quickness, strength, etc. that makes the difference....

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Khahil Mack was the disrupting force, and he's not a "big fatty".

It's not the size, it's the skill, Hill supposedly has the quickness Marinelli craves, but this isn't college, he'll face top notch guards and centers nearly every game, can he step up?
Otherwise the interior pocket collapsing has to be done with Collins, et al, because the chances of getting a top DT that can collapse the pocket is basically non-existent, unless Aaron Donald or such suddenly gets disgruntled and demands a trade, e.g., and that's not likely to happen...

To me unless I am blind 96 was doing much damage upfront, now my eyes are not 20/20 like they use to be when I was 8 but I still saw 96 raising cane upfront.

 

[kskboys]

Collins and Woods are 308 and 313, I seriously doubt another 2 and 7 lbs are the difference maker. I think maybe it's that the Pats' guys are good first and just happen to be 315 also, in other words if they both went on a diet and lost 10 lbs each they'd still be good at rushing the passer and collapsing the pocket.

I checked the other day on the top 10 rated DTs in the league, 6 of the 10 weighed less than Woods, so it's not the size, it's quickness, strength, etc. that makes the difference....

And build. We have this obsession w/ tall DT's, guys who are in the 6-5/300 category. Problem is, due to build, these guys are often moved off the ball due to leverage problems.

Funny thing is, when we luck upon someone w/ a good low build, like Woods and TMac, they hold up the middle much better, but we don't seem to notice, and just keep drafting the Ivie's and Carrell's of the draft. One of the goldarndest things I've ever seen.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

The bears run that 3-4 scheme, so they have to have good fatties in the middle and Eddie Goldman remains as one of the better NTs in NFL. pBut when I look at Bears defense , it’s both their rushers
upfront like Khali Mack, Akeem Hicks and Leonard Floyd .... as well as ball hawks such as Eddie Fuller, Haha Clinton Dix, and Eddie Jackson that are capitalizing on jumping the ball for INTs.
those elements help continue to make them among the very elite defenses - despite Vic Fangio’s departure.

Where are our disruptive rushers and ball hawks ?

I agree but when Case tried to step up to pass that pocket was being pushed right back on him. So yes Mack made him move but when he did no room up front in that first half.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

And build. We have this obsession w/ tall DT's, guys who are in the 6-5/300 category. Problem is, due to build, these guys are often moved off the ball due to leverage problems.

Funny thing is, when we luck upon someone w/ a good low build, like Woods and TMac, they hold up the middle much better, but we don't seem to notice, and just keep drafting the Ivie's and Carrell's of the draft. One of the goldarndest things I've ever seen.

Like against the rams, people can say scheme but man on man we got pushed like babies.

 

[kskboys]

I agree but when Case tried to step up to pass that pocket was being pushed right back on him. So yes Mack made him move but when he did no room up front in that first half.

Pushing the pocket is instrumental in a good D. Goldman and Hicks push the OL's back into the QB's lap where he's forced to go further back or sideways making him easy pickin's for the OLB's. Man, this is football 101 stuff. Did Marinate flunk out of his freshman classes?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

To me unless I am blind 96 was doing much damage upfront, now my eyes are not 20/20 like they use to be when I was 8 but I still saw 96 raising cane upfront.

He provided enough to let Mack, etc. shine. But had zero tackles or sacks, Dallas needs our DTs to get those, we don't have Mack...

 

[kskboys]

Like against the rams, people can say scheme but man on man we got pushed like babies.

Hey, maybe they run against us anyways, but if the DE's don't have to collapse in to protect the weak middle, they might be there to make plays.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

He provided enough to let Mack, etc. shine. But had zero tackles or sacks, Dallas needs our DTs to get those, we don't have Mack...

Agree, we don't have Mack but paying one of the Hotz Boys like he is. So he needs to earn his money, no excuses now that Quinn is opposite of him.

 

[Shane612]

Borderline. Yes.
If the pass rush improves, I'd be all in.

 

[quickccc]

Khahil Mack was the disrupting force, and he's not a "big fatty".

It's not the size, it's the skill, Hill supposedly has the quickness Marinelli craves, but this isn't college, he'll face top notch guards and centers nearly every game, can he step up?
Otherwise the interior pocket collapsing has to be done with Collins, et al, because the chances of getting a top DT that can collapse the pocket is basically non-existent, unless Aaron Donald or such suddenly gets disgruntled and demands a trade, e.g., and that's not likely to happen...

although Mack is an edge rusher, he shouldn't be in the fattie discussion, just as Dlaw would not be in a fattie discussion.
but I agree it's more about the skill level than sheer size alone.

my question and issue with Marinelli is, a guy like Damon Snack Harrison (who was an undrafted FA rookie, coming outta 'Bama) would have never been in a Marinelli camp because
his sheer size, bulk and way of play would never fit because Rod prefers movement over dominant run stuffer.

although I do wonder if the club was ever serious in selecting Bucs gigantic DT Vita Vea as was much rumored at draft time.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Hey, maybe they run against us anyways, but if the DE's don't have to collapse in to protect the weak middle, they might be there to make plays.

The 4-3 was designed to keep the o-line off the linebackers, so the linebackers can fill the holes and stop the run. 3-4 was designed as a run-stopping defense, freeing the linebackers to cover tight ends, etc. The 3-4 has to have a big guy in the middle since he'll get double teamed nearly every play, and he typically doesn't make plays, just does the proverbial clogging up the middle.

If you can find a 325 lb guy who can rush the passer, great, but those guys aren't easy to find, generally the bigger you are the slower you are, though of course there are exceptions.

Cowboys run a 4-3 most of the time, they need the quicker DTs, by design, the Rams do pretty well with a 280 or so pound Donald as the feature DT, but he has exceptional quickness AND strength. Charles Haley was a 255 lb DE, but stronger than the average 255 lb player. You would like to have the exceptional guy if you can find them, but those guys go early, Dallas hasn't really had, except for 2016, a really high draft pick, so to say they should draft the exceptional DT is fine, but usually they're gone by the time we draft...

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

although Mack is an edge rusher, he shouldn't be in the fattie discussion, just as Dlaw would not be in a fattie discussion.
but I agree it's more about the skill level than sheer size alone.

my question and issue with Marinelli is, a guy like Damon Snack Harrison (who was an undrafted FA rookie, coming outta 'Bama) would have never been in a Marinelli camp because
his sheer size, bulk and way of play would never fit because Rod prefers movement over dominant run stuffer.

although I do wonder if the club was ever serious in selecting Bucs gigantic DT Vita Vea as was much rumored at draft time.

Based on Rod, Vita was all smoke. If someone ever not fit his scheme it is him.

 

[shabazz]

As bout as ready our 22nd ranked Offense was in winning the Super Bowl last year......