Belicheat, Brady claim ignorance; NFL Statement Post #434

[khiladi]

If the report is accurate all that it proves is the ball boy had possession of the all the footballs, not the refs. He didn't have to deflate the balls in the bathroom. Were the refs even still in the room when he picked the bags up? I'm sure the rest of the time he had the balls is not completely accounted for. He could have easily done it on the sidelines. Who watches the ball boy before the game? It would take less than a minute once they were out of the bag.

The Glazer report proves nothing and subsequent report doesn't either.

Part of the NFL obfuscation, I mean, investigative process.

As if taking a leak takes a full two hours or so and the only possible time balls could have been deflated is then.

 

[Deep_South]

I'm wondering why the ball boy would go into a bathroom and let air out of all the balls in 90 seconds if he didn't know anyone was even paying attention to him. Why rush? If he told them he just stopped in to take a leak before going out on the field where there aren't any bathrooms, I don't see how they could conclude it was suspicious behavior. They are going to need a confession, IMO.

 

[DFWJC]

I'm wondering why the ball boy would go into a bathroom and let air out of all the balls in 90 seconds if he didn't know anyone was even paying attention to him. Why rush? If he told them he just stopped in to take a leak before going out on the field where there aren't any bathrooms, I don't see how they could conclude it was suspicious behavior. They are going to need a confession, IMO.

Most certainly.

Next you'll hear, the ball boy has retired to the Bahamas.
jk

 

[Rogah]

I'm wondering why the ball boy would go into a bathroom and let air out of all the balls in 90 seconds if he didn't know anyone was even paying attention to him. Why rush? If he told them he just stopped in to take a leak before going out on the field where there aren't any bathrooms, I don't see how they could conclude it was suspicious behavior. They are going to need a confession, IMO.

That was my impression too. Even if you accept the notion that an human being could actually deflate the right collection of balls the proper amount in 90 seconds, there is no reason to even remotely suspect he would feel rushed in doing it.

A guy who was going down to the field and was going to be there for the next 2+ hours or so (until halftime) without the chance to use a bathroom took advantage of his last chance to take a leak. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

 

[DFWJC]

They couldn't have lost that much pressure, it's a simple formula. You also have 0 explanation why the visiting team's footballs stayed firm.

For starters, I'm not defending NE and I have no reason to answer various theories. Why do I need to explain unknown things here? I've been just stating what I know and then clearly stating what possible scenarios may be....with no skin the game whatsoever.

Just an fyi, they did not say the visiting team's balls did not go down in psi, they said they were still within the legal limits. They also didn't say what the temp was in the two separate rooms when the balls were originally inflated to each teams' preferred specs by each team.
I honestly don't care one way or the other.
All I'm saying is that balls do , in fact, lose air pressure in a fairly short amount of time due to temperature drop. Then they equilibrate and quit dropping.
If a ball was re-inflated at or near game temperature, well, they would no longer deflate.

That is just stating fact and not taking a stand one way or the other.

The explanation for all the rest is up those doing the investigation, or those just speculating until they know what happened.

What will be even more crazy is what if after all this, the ref who claims to have checked the air (and no, I'm not doubting him) is actually going to have to prove that he took his good old time with those primitive little air pressure gauges and was sure everything was within the guidelines to begin with and at halftime. We saw what replay refs did to the Cowboys. Let's just say they are certainly not perfect and sometimes not even honest.
I'd still give them the nod over Belichick...lol.

Then things could get even sillier.....

 

[Doomsay]

I'm wondering why the ball boy would go into a bathroom and let air out of all the balls in 90 seconds if he didn't know anyone was even paying attention to him. Why rush? If he told them he just stopped in to take a leak before going out on the field where there aren't any bathrooms, I don't see how they could conclude it was suspicious behavior. They are going to need a confession, IMO.

Seems like a strange thing to do: carry 2 large duffel bags into a small 1 stall bathroom. You'd probably have to place them on the floor, which in a team bathroom would be kind of gross, I'd imagine.* You'd think that you'd take care of business first, after all, it only took a minute and a half (if true).

https://encrypted-tbn2.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiNoPiDdjCDX51nft0BNmGqdXSQVKAFYg_2EQcxk415Uu0-H7V

* Dane Cook: "Why when you use the public restroom.....why is everything wet?"

 

[Nightman]

That was my impression too. Even if you accept the notion that an human being could actually deflate the right collection of balls the proper amount in 90 seconds, there is no reason to even remotely suspect he would feel rushed in doing it.

A guy who was going down to the field and was going to be there for the next 2+ hours or so (until halftime) without the chance to use a bathroom took advantage of his last chance to take a leak. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.

But the whole bathroom story is just a red herring. Everyone is talking about how 90 secs isn't enough time and laughing it off because it's just a bathroom trip. People were blaming the refs for not doing their jobs and even checking the balls. Now we know that they didn't have custody of the balls after they were checked.

The whole point is the ball boy had the balls in his possession well before the game. He had plenty of opportunities between getting the balls and the start of the game to deflate 10-12 footballs. He could have easily deflated the balls on the sideline, who watches a ball boy before the game. "oh my god, look at that ball boy over there. he is handling footballs, that is so suspicious"

 

[Doomsay]

For starters, I'm not defending NE and I have no reason to answer various theories. Why do I need to explain unknown things here? I've been just stating what I know and then clearly stating what possible scenarios may be....with no skin the game whatsoever.

Just an fyi, they did not say the visiting team's balls did not go down in psi, they said they were still within the legal limits. They also didn't say what the temp was in the two separate rooms when the balls were originally inflated to each teams' preferred specs by each team.
I honestly don't care one way or the other.
All I'm saying is that balls do , in fact, lose air pressure in a fairly short amount of time due to temperature drop. Then they equilibrate and quit dropping.
If a ball was re-inflated at or near game temperature, well, they would no longer deflate.

That is just stating fact and not taking a stand one way or the other.

The explanation for all the rest is up those doing the investigation, or those just speculating until they know what happened.

What will be even more crazy is what if after all this, the ref who claims to have checked the air (and no, I'm not doubting him) is actually going to have to prove that he took his good old time with those primitive little air pressure gauges and was sure everything was within the guidelines to begin with and at halftime. We saw what replay refs did to the Cowboys. Let's just say they are certainly not perfect and sometimes not even honest.
I'd still give them the nod over Belichick...lol.

Then things could get even sillier.....

It's just not physically possible for those balls to have lost that much pressure (consistently) in that amount of time, under those atmospheric conditions.
http://www.popsci.com/football-physics-and-science-deflategate

I don't know what happened behind the scenes, but if the ref is to be believed about the 2lb delta, the change could only be caused by an outside agency.

In racing, we deal with the ideal gas law every time we are at the track. Our tires generally increase in pressure by 20-30% during track sessions because the tires temps increase by over 100 degrees F when they get up to racing temps. There certainly wasn't anything approximating those conditions in Foxborough last week.

 

[Tabascocat]

I don't really care why or how the balls were deflated. It is the lying about it that bothers me, it is almost pathological with those guys. Same thing with spy-gate....lie....lie and deny.

They should have just owned up to it and accepted an insignificant fine and moved on. How hard would it be to say "yea, we inflated the balls to the minimum pressure required and we did not know the weather would affect them that much"? That would have deflected 70% or so of the current criticisms IMO.

When I used to play on a National softbal team, we used to microwave the balls to solidify the core resulting in higher BA's. We got caught(many other teams did the same thing) and fessed up and took our disqualification of that tournament and moved on.

 

[Rogah]

But the whole bathroom story is just a red herring. Everyone is talking about how 90 secs isn't enough time and laughing it off because it's just a bathroom trip.

when it first came out the ball attendant went into an unmarked room for an unknown period of time, the haters immediately seized this as the smoking gun they're so desperate for.

Then when it turned out the unmarked room was a bathroom and he was only in there 90 seconds, all of a sudden it's a red herring....

 

[Staubacher]

when it first came out the ball attendant went into an unmarked room for an unknown period of time, the haters immediately seized this as the smoking gun they're so desperate for.

Then when it turned out the unmarked room was a bathroom and he was only in there 90 seconds, all of a sudden it's a red herring....

The smoking gun already exists - 11 Patriots deflated balls and the Colts 0.

The investigation is trying to find out who pulled the trigger.

 

[DFWJC]

The smoking gun already exists - 11 Patriots deflated balls and the Colts 0.

The investigation is trying to find out who pulled the trigger.

MIT (or maybe it was C&M) says
If the Colts inflated their balls to 13.5 in a 60-65 degree room, they would not drop to below 12.5. They would still be fine.
If the Pats inflated their balls to 12.5 in a 75-80 degree room, they would drop to around 11 or so psi...or 2 psi below the "norm" of 13.

yes, seems a bit far-fetched.

I didn't run the test and have no idea if it's true (other than that the balls do drop psi in cooler temps).
2 psi seems like a lot to me.

 

[Nightman]

MIT (or maybe it was C&M) says
If the Colts inflated their balls to 13.5 in a 60-65 degree room, they would not drop to below 12.5. They would still be fine.
If the Pats inflated their balls to 12.5 in a 75-80 degree room, they would drop to around 11 or so psi...or 2 psi below the "norm" of 13.

yes, seems a bit far-fetched.

I didn't run the test and have no idea if it's true (other than that the balls do drop psi in cooler temps).
2 psi seems like a lot to me.

There are way too many assumptions to draw any solid conclusions. Did the Pats inflate the balls to 12.5 and bring them to refs room or did they tell the refs they wanted them filled to 12.5 and the refs filled them as they checked them. Same with the Colts.

Also why do assume the Colts inflated to 13.5? They haven't said anything yet. And why would their room be that much colder than NEs?

If NEs balls sat in the refs room for any period of time, wouldn't they eqaulize to same temp as the INDY balls way before they were taken outside? And I still don't see how a difference of 70 degrees to 50 degrees would cause a 2 psi drop. That just seems like way too much in such a short period of time for such a small difference in temperature.

 

[DFWJC]

There are way too many assumptions to draw any solid conclusions. Did the Pats inflate the balls to 12.5 and bring them to refs room or did they tell the refs they wanted them filled to 12.5 and the refs filled them as they checked them. Same with the Colts.

Also why do assume the Colts inflated to 13.5? They haven't said anything yet. And why would their room be that much colder than NEs?

If NEs balls sat in the refs room for any period of time, wouldn't they eqaulize to same temp as the INDY balls way before they were taken outside? And I still don't see how a difference of 70 degrees to 50 degrees would cause a 2 psi drop. That just seems like way too much in such a short period of time for such a small difference in temperature.

Well, I'm certainly not making any of these assumptions personally.
It really shows how many hoops must be jumped through to begin to explain this out side of what many assume.

I agree, 2 psi seems high.

MIT says from 75 to 50 will get you 1.93 psi after 2-3 hours.
I'm not sure if that's from 12.5 or 13.5 starting point.