Best defenses of all time

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Vikings and their Purple Gang never accomplished what the 85 Bears did and that's winning a championship. Some have the 85 Bears ranked as the second greatest team in NFL history. Most have them ranked ahead of the Cowboys great 90's teams even though they didn't have near the offense the Cowboys did. The Vikings Purple Gang never put up the sack totals the Bears did from 84 to 85 that's the stat everyone looks at. The Purple Gang never terrorized QB's like the 84-85 Bears. The Purple Gang were complimented during most of their great years with a solid offense that was being led by a HOF QB. I started following the NFL in 1972 and watched 3 of the Vikings 4 SB losses.

The Purple Gang didn't show up in any of their 4 SB's in which the Vikings were dominated. This entire topic is based on opinion but you'll never find anyone who knows football who has the opinion that the 70's Vikings had better teams than the 85 Bears. To have an average offense and QB and still be considered as one of the top 5 greatest teams in NFL history shows just how great the 85 Bears defense was. You can chalk it all up to scheme if you want but that defense was loaded with some excellent players who were as cohesive a unit as the NFL has ever seen.

That's fair but if we are just talking about Defense, which is what I believed this conversation to be, then the Vikings accomplished much more, on three different occasion, then your 85 Bears team. Bears never had a defense that held opponents to under 10 points a contest. 11.7 is the best that defense ever produced. I would be interested in seeing who believes the Bears are the 2nd best team in NFL history. In my mind, they are not even close. As to the Sack totals, that's a straw man argument. 1st of all, the NFL didn't officially start keeping Sack statistics until 1982. Secondly, defenses got way more chances to get sacks in the 80s then in the late 60s/70s because there were more games and more pass attempts. You really can't say what the defenses did or did not accomplish, based on those two things.

 

[tyke1doe]

Yeah..

Like they rode the wave of the team's success,too.

Not as in fruitful like your banana and cheerios fruitful.

Okay. But I don't think anyone can say that they had successful careers in terms of winning and losing. They both were average to below average at best.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

By 89 most of the Bears key defensive players from their great 85 team were all over 30 they were past their prime.

Not really. Trace Armstrong was 24, the Fridge was 27, Ron Rivera was 27, Singletary was 31, Dent was 29, John Roper was 24, Donnell Woolford was 23, Duerson was 29, McMichael was 31 and Gayle was 27. Most of those guys were either young or in their primes.

 

[Wayne02]

Sure it's easy to improve that team. Once Wilson can make plays inside the pocket the team will be improved.

You keep talking about facts. What facts have you presented here to support your idiotic comment that Russell Wilson is the perfect QB for the Seahawks? Give me some facts on that. Since you're a fact checker and all.

My fact, again, is that the Seahawks passing offense ranked 26th in the league this year. Read that again. That's a fact. What Russell Wilson gets paid to do he did to the tune of the 26th best out of 32.

Now of course some teams pass more than others but I'd argue the reason why the Seahawks run their offense like they do is because the "perfect" QB they have can't play it any other way. They can not rely on Wilson to carry the offense with his arm. He's not good enough. Not even close. He was carried by a great defense and running game.

So what, their passing offense was 26th, what does that have to do with Russell Wilson not being able to read defenses and not being able to throw from the pocket? This is another unfounded opinion by you because you need something to knock Wilson about. So again, what facts do you have to prove that Wilson can't read defenses or throw from the pocket?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Walsh's WCO was so successful mostly due to the talent he had offensively. He was blessed with the greatest QB and WR to ever play the game. The NFL is a copy cat league but not every team has had the success in the WCO as the 49ers did because they didn't have the talent they did. Like I said for any scheme to be successful you have to have the players. The Cowboys sucked in Kiffin's Tampa 2 defense because they don't have the talent to run it successfully.

No. I mean, he had talent but the talent fit the scheme. Regardless, not every team who was running the WCO had that talent and they were all abusing the 46 by 89. Strawman arugument I think.

 

[theSHOW]

I would agree with all that. He's alright. Doesn't make many mistakes. Can make the big play. I'd even say he's got the potential for much more.

What he isn't right now is a great QB or even the "perfect fit" for the Seahawks offense. That's complete and total nonsense.

43-8 That's complete and total domination.

"CHAMPIONSHIP"

 

[KJJ]

That's fair but if we are just talking about Defense, which is what I believed this conversation to be, then the Vikings accomplished much more, on three different occasion, then your 85 Bears team. Bears never had a defense that held opponents to under 10 points a contest. 11.7 is the best that defense ever produced. I would be interested in seeing who believes the Bears are the 2nd best team in NFL history. In my mind, they are not even close. As to the Sack totals, that's a straw man argument. 1st of all, the NFL didn't officially start keeping Sack statistics until 1982. Secondly, defenses got way more chances to get sacks in the 80s then in the late 60s/70s because there were more games and more pass attempts. You really can't say what the defenses did or did not accomplish, based on those two things.

How could the Vikings have accomplished more on 3 different occasions when they never won a championship on any of those occasions? The stats don't mean squat it's your won/loss record and playoff record that matter. This is why the 85 Bears defense is ranked ahead of any of the Vikings defenses because the 85 Bears went 15-1 and won the SB by 36 points. The Purple Gang couldn't stop anyone in their 4 SB appearances despite having solid offenses.

This ranking has the 85 Bears as the greatest team ever.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/greatest.html

This ranking also has the 85 Bears as the greatest team ever.

http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-teams/

I don't agree the 85 Bears are the greatest team ever but most rankings have them at #2 all-time feel free to research it. The 85 Bears were all about their defense and neither the Purple Gang or the Rams Fearsome Foursome had defenses ranked as high as the 85 Bears defense.

 

[KJJ]

No. I mean, he had talent but the talent fit the scheme. Regardless, not every team who was running the WCO had that talent and they were all abusing the 46 by 89. Strawman arugument I think.

As the game changes schemes come and go. The facts are the 85 Bears are ranked as one of the top 5 greatest teams ever all due to their defense. When you think of great defenses most think of the 85 Bears.

 

[Risen Star]

So what, their passing offense was 26th, what does that have to do with Russell Wilson not being able to read defenses and not being able to throw from the pocket?

You're right. They're 26th ranked in passing because their QB is excellent at reading defenses and throwing the ball in the pocket.

He does it so well that they are one of the least productive teams to do it.

You've got me on the ropes here.

This is another unfounded opinion by you because you need something to knock Wilson about. So again, what facts do you have to prove that Wilson can't read defenses or throw from the pocket?

Yes. It in my unfounded opinion that the Seahawks offense ranked 26th in the league this year in passing. I'm just stating what I think. Just guessing.

You, meanwhile, have backed up that gem about Russell Wilson being the "perfect QB" for that offense when you said.....

Well, what exactly? Or are you ready to admit it just how highly laughable that comment was and that the league is littered with better, or "more perfect" QBs?

 

[Wayne02]

You're right. They're 26th ranked in passing because their QB is excellent at reading defenses and throwing the ball in the pocket.

He does it so well that they are one of the least productive teams to do it.

You've got me on the ropes here.

Yes. It in my unfounded opinion that the Seahawks offense ranked 26th in the league this year in passing. I'm just stating what I think. Just guessing.

You, meanwhile, have backed up that gem about Russell Wilson being the "perfect QB" for that offense when you said.....

Well, what exactly? Or are you ready to admit it just how highly laughable that comment was and that the league is littered with better, or "more perfect" QBs?

Judging how everyone else has pretty much disagreed with your false claims shows that you're the only person that is laughing. Your laughing alone, doesn't prove anything, so again, can you please provide facts to the claim that you made that Russell Wilson can't read defenses or throw from the pocket?

 

[Doomsday101]

You're right. They're 26th ranked in passing because their QB is excellent at reading defenses and throwing the ball in the pocket.

He does it so well that they are one of the least productive teams to do it.

You've got me on the ropes here.



Yes. It in my unfounded opinion that the Seahawks offense ranked 26th in the league this year in passing. I'm just stating what I think. Just guessing.

You, meanwhile, have backed up that gem about Russell Wilson being the "perfect QB" for that offense when you said.....

Well, what exactly? Or are you ready to admit it just how highly laughable that comment was and that the league is littered with better, or "more perfect" QBs?

26th in passing yardage so what passing yardage does not win games he put up 26 TD to 9 ints

Seattle runs the ball because they can and it opens things up for them. Again being a pass happy team does not win you ball games being an effective offense moving the ball and putting up points does but how you go about doing it really does not matter. This crap of passing teams winning it all BS Seattle showed what a solid team can do running the ball taking care of the ball and playing soild defense. Best passing team in the NFL got their butts kicked so all this talk about QB winning it? is a load of crap teams win SB always have always will

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How could the Vikings have accomplished more on 3 different occasions when they never won a championship on any of those occasions? The stats don't mean squat it's your won/loss record and playoff record that matter. This is why the 85 Bears defense is ranked ahead of any of the Vikings defenses because the 85 Bears went 15-1 and won the SB by 36 points. The Purple Gang couldn't stop anyone in their 4 SB appearances despite having solid offenses.

Either we are going to be honest in the discussion or we should just agree to stop the discussion. I have already, specifically said, that we are talking about Defense. We are not talking about winning Super Bowls or the team as a whole. Defensively, the Vikings held opponents, from 69-71 to the following:

1969 - 9.5 points a game.
1970 - 10.2 points a game.
1971 - 9.9 points a game.

All three of those seasons are statistically better then the 85 Bears ever posted.

This ranking has the 85 Bears as the greatest team ever.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/greatest.html

The article you posted starts off with the following statement:

"Page 2 thought it would be a good time to stir up the debate about which team is the greatest of all time."

ESPN Page 2 is basically a Blog. What is a Blog? A Blog is a personal website or piece that basically states an individual's opinion. It is not something that is derived through any kind of scientific or even statistical credibility. Blogs are not critical thought venues. They are personal opinion pages.

This Blog doesn't even list the Cowboys of the early 90s, the team of the Decade of the 90s.

This ranking also has the 85 Bears as the greatest team ever.

http://www.thetoptens.com/nfl-teams/

Correct me if I am wrong but this is not even a sports site.

I don't agree the 85 Bears are the greatest team ever but most rankings have them at #2 all-time feel free to research it. The 85 Bears were all about their defense and neither the Purple Gang or the Rams Fearsome Foursome had defenses ranked as high as the 85 Bears defense.

Most rankings? I don't see that either but whatever. Again, allow me to point out that we are not talking about BEST TEAM. We are talking about best defenses. Statistically speaking, the Vikings Purple Gang was better then the 85 Bears. The 85 Bears TEAM, also had Jim McMahon, Willie Gault, Jimbo Covert, Jay Hilgenberg, Keith Van Horn and Sweetness. As a TEAM, yeah. They probably were more talented. The only really great player the Vikings had on the offensive side of the ball was Ron Yary but defensively, statistically they don't grade out as such.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

As the game changes schemes come and go. The facts are the 85 Bears are ranked as one of the top 5 greatest teams ever all due to their defense. When you think of great defenses most think of the 85 Bears.

No. It's not all due to their Defense. Offensively, they had some great players as well, which I listed in an earlier post. It was not all defensive. Far from it, in fact.

 

[Crown Royal]

I would agree with all that. He's alright. Doesn't make many mistakes. Can make the big play. I'd even say he's got the potential for much more.

What he isn't right now is a great QB or even the "perfect fit" for the Seahawks offense. That's complete and total nonsense.

What's the stat on their passing game? Is it yardage, points scored, what? Honestly don't know.

Clearly it's a team that doesn't require a fantastic passing attack.

 

[Redball Express]

Okay. But I don't think anyone can say that they had successful careers in terms of winning and losing. They both were average to below average at best.

I'll agree to a point.

Remember..

they went to teams like a Washington and Cleve!and that traditionally..

..like us..

have problems with ownership being 'iffy'..

and while its difficult to turn franchises around..

..I would still say they are successful coaches.

You do not get to be a top coach at. any level of the NFL..

..without being good.

Jason Garrett excluded.

He's never been successful on his own as a player or coach and got the job because he's Jerrahs illegitimate love child conceived at a SB party back in 1972.

But who's counting.

 

[burmafrd]

I'll agree to a point.

Remember..

they went to teams like a Washington and Cleve!and that traditionally..

..like us..

have problems with ownership being 'iffy'..

and while its difficult to turn franchises around..

..I would still say they are successful coaches.

You do not get to be a top coach at. any level of the NFL..

..without being good.

Jason Garrett excluded.

He's never been successful on his own as a player or coach and got the job because he's Jerrahs illegitimate love child conceived at a SB party back in 1972.

But who's counting.

trying to remember the name of that safety (well he was supposed to be one) that stuck for several years when he absolutely stank the place up. I am thinking Red Ball bought the pictures of jerruh with a goat that he was using to stay on the team.

 

[joseephuss]

trying to remember the name of that safety (well he was supposed to be one) that stuck for several years when he absolutely stank the place up. I am thinking Red Ball bought the pictures of jerruh with a goat that he was using to stay on the team.

Lynn Scott?

 

[KJJ]

No. It's not all due to their Defense. Offensively, they had some great players as well, which I listed in an earlier post. It was not all defensive. Far from it, in fact.

The 85 Bears had one "great" player Walter Payton he was their offense. Payton led the team in rushing and receiving in 85. If you look at the 85 Bears roster most of the names that are recognizable were all on defense. Willie Gault was a good receiver but only had 33 catches in 85 and one TD. He never even sniffed a 1000 yard season in Chicago. Jim McMahon who was an average QB who only produced 2392 yards and 15 TD's in 85.

The entire offense revolved around Payton who had just over 1500 yards rushing and 9 TD's. The success the Bears had offensively was mostly due to the sacks and turnovers their defense produced. The Bears offense was given great scoring opportunities due to their dominate defense. Every discussion about the 85 Bears is centered around their great defense.

There's been a lot of talk about who had the greatest defense in NFL history the past few days with the Seahawks dominating defensive performance in the SB and I haven't heard anyone mention the Vikings or Rams. The defenses that have been mentioned are the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, the Steel Curtain of the 70's, the 02 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The 85 Bears had one "great" player Walter Payton he was their offense. Payton led the team in rushing and receiving in 85. If you look at the 85 Bears roster most of the names that are recognizable were all on defense. Willie Gault was a good receiver but only had 33 catches in 85 and one TD. He never even sniffed a 1000 yard season in Chicago. Jim McMahon who was an average QB who only produced 2392 yards and 15 TD's in 85.

The entire offense revolved around Payton who had just over 1500 yards rushing and 9 TD's. The success the Bears had offensively was mostly due to the sacks and turnovers their defense produced. The Bears offense was given great scoring opportunities due to their dominate defense. Every discussion about the 85 Bears is centered around their great defense.

There's been a lot of talk about who had the greatest defense in NFL history the past few days with the Seahawks dominating defensive performance in the SB and I haven't heard anyone mention the Vikings or Rams. The defenses that have been mentioned are the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, the Steel Curtain of the 70's, the 02 Bucs and now the 2013 Seahawks.

Really? Sweetness is generally considere, by anybody who is not a Cowboy fan, to be amoung the two or three greatest RBs of all time. McMahon was more then just an average QB. I will give you Gault but that still leaves that OL. Hilgenberg was a 7 time Pro Bowler and a 2 time All Pro. Covert was a 2 time Pro Bowler and a 2 time All Pro. The rest of that OL were no slouches either. That offense was a lot better then you give it credit for.

As to the Rams or the Vikings or the Cowboys or the Packers or the Chiefs or the Eagles or Denver's Orange Crush or the Giants or some of those Oakland Defenses either. That doesn't mean they weren't great. That just means that they all came before the NFL exploded and became a media overload.

 

[KJJ]

Either we are going to be honest in the discussion or we should just agree to stop the discussion. I have already, specifically said, that we are talking about Defense. We are not talking about winning Super Bowls or the team as a whole. Defensively, the Vikings held opponents, from 69-71 to the following:

1969 - 9.5 points a game.
1970 - 10.2 points a game.
1971 - 9.9 points a game.

All three of those seasons are statistically better then the 85 Bears ever posted.



The article you posted starts off with the following statement:

"Page 2 thought it would be a good time to stir up the debate about which team is the greatest of all time."

ESPN Page 2 is basically a Blog. What is a Blog? A Blog is a personal website or piece that basically states an individual's opinion. It is not something that is derived through any kind of scientific or even statistical credibility. Blogs are not critical thought venues. They are personal opinion pages.

This Blog doesn't even list the Cowboys of the early 90s, the team of the Decade of the 90s.



Correct me if I am wrong but this is not even a sports site.




Most rankings? I don't see that either but whatever. Again, allow me to point out that we are not talking about BEST TEAM. We are talking about best defenses. Statistically speaking, the Vikings Purple Gang was better then the 85 Bears. The 85 Bears TEAM, also had Jim McMahon, Willie Gault, Jimbo Covert, Jay Hilgenberg, Keith Van Horn and Sweetness. As a TEAM, yeah. They probably were more talented. The only really great player the Vikings had on the offensive side of the ball was Ron Yary but defensively, statistically they don't grade out as such.

Our discussion got started with you disagreeing with my opinion that the Bears front 7 was the most dominate in NFL history. You claimed that honor goes to the Vikings Purple Gang and the Rams Fearsome Foursome but the facts are they were known for their "front four" not their front 7. Who cares if the sites I listed were blogs or non sports sites the facts are the 85 Bears are rated by everyone as one of the top 5 greatest teams in NFL history do a google if you think I'm wrong. Most have them in the top 2 or 3 greatest teams.

The only "great" offensive player the 85 Bears had was Payton. McMahon was an average QB while Willie Gault never caught more than 42 passes for 818 yards as a Bear. Below is another site that has the 85 Bears as the greatest team in the SB era. Again I don't agree they're the greatest team but these polls prove how highly regarded the 85 Bears were.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-nfl-teams-of-all-time-super-bowl-era/page/26