Big 12 looking to add 4 PAC 12 teams

Diehardblues

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Big 12 meeting tomorrow to discuss adding 4 Pac 12 teams . Those teams mentioned were Arizona , Arizona State, Colorado and Utah.

Which after Texas and OU departure would bring conference to 16 teams matching Big 10 and SEC.

Colorado of course is a former Big 12 team and Utah would have in state rival Brigham Young. Both Arizona schools would have geographically similar rivals .

Makes sense to me. Stanford is looking to join Notre Dame in Big 10 and it’s rumored Oregon and Washington are pursuing options .





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Mountaineerfan

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I look for the ACC to make a push soon to add teams. If they don't try to stay relevant they will lose FSU and Clemson. Clemson I believe likes the ACC because they recruit the SEC athletes but don't have to play their schedules.

I think the ACC may reach out to 4 teams to try to stay relevant. Those four teams: Notre Dame they already have a working partnership, West Virginia it is rumored they reached out after WVU committed to big 12, Kansas-Instantly the best basketball conference in the county and a fourth could be a Cincinnati.
 

uvaballa

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I look for the ACC to make a push soon to add teams. If they don't try to stay relevant they will lose FSU and Clemson. Clemson I believe likes the ACC because they recruit the SEC athletes but don't have to play their schedules.

I think the ACC may reach out to 4 teams to try to stay relevant. Those four teams: Notre Dame they already have a working partnership, West Virginia it is rumored they reached out after WVU committed to big 12, Kansas-Instantly the best basketball conference in the county and a fourth could be a Cincinnati.
Big 10 has been trying to get to 16 teams, they just completed skipped over the Big 12 (I guess they didn't like any of the remaining teams). Notre Dame is already in the ACC so they don't need to add them. They could definitely add one more team to get to 16. For the last ten years or so, in the two major sports the ACC has won more NCs than the other conferences besides the SEC.
 

jterrell

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I look for the ACC to make a push soon to add teams. If they don't try to stay relevant they will lose FSU and Clemson. Clemson I believe likes the ACC because they recruit the SEC athletes but don't have to play their schedules.

I think the ACC may reach out to 4 teams to try to stay relevant. Those four teams: Notre Dame they already have a working partnership, West Virginia it is rumored they reached out after WVU committed to big 12, Kansas-Instantly the best basketball conference in the county and a fourth could be a Cincinnati.
ACC can't reach out to offer much to teams.
They are locked in a 2036 TV deal and grant of rights deal that hogties them. If they lose ND they have zero leverage and will likely fall.
They pay out far less than the Big 12 right now and are tied to a bad deal long-term unless they can get enough power to renegotiate.
So WVA isn't moving there no matter how much WVA may love the idea it isn't feasible financially.

Most likely the Big 12 will add the 4 Rocky Mountain teams" Ariz/Colo/ASU/Utah, then look to get from 16 to 20 with biggest non-SEC/B1G teams left.
That would get us toward 3 20-team conferences with B12 the 3rd of those.
SEC will pilfer ACC of 4 highest earners(FSU/Clemson for sure) and B12 will take those scraps of next 4 highest(Louisville and/or Pitt prolly in that package) as WVA rivals.

B1G prolly takes ND/STAN/ORE/WAS.

Major D1 shrinks from 3 P5 conferences to 3 Mega conferences with a 12 team playoff guaranteeing each conf 2 spots.

ACC
The league’s 20-year top-tier deal with ESPN runs through 2036. It pays about $240 million annually, meaning each of the 14 schools gets about $17 million.

Big Ten
The league is in the middle of a six-year, $2.64 billion deal with Fox and ESPN that expires in 2023 and currently makes it the lead dog in annual TV revenue. The league gets about $440 million a year in TV money (including from the Fox-run Big Ten Network), meaning each of the 14 schools receives about $31.4 million. With CBS losing its SEC deal, might that network want a piece of Big Ten football? Negotiations for the league’s next TV contract will be mighty interesting.

Big 12
The league is in the midst of a 13-year deal with ESPN and Fox that ends in 2025, and reports earlier this year said the networks were not interested in early renegotiations. That is one of the reasons Oklahoma and Texas are leaving the league. The current deal pays the 10-school league about $200 million annually.

SEC
ESPN will be the exclusive home of SEC football and men’s basketball starting in 2024. The 10-year contract reportedly will be worth more than $300 million annually for the league; that is on top of the current deal with ESPN (that one also ends in 2034) that includes the televising of certain football and basketball games and the SEC Network. Consider that the current deal with CBS is worth $55 million a year. And consider that SEC expansion almost certainly will lead to a re-opening of negotiations. (Under that new ESPN deal, the 14 member schools would’ve expected to receive about $40 million a year solely from the league’s TV deal. In the 2018-19 fiscal year, each SEC school received about $44 million total from the SEC’s entire revenue distribution system.)

College Football Playoff
ESPN pays the CFP $470 million annually in a deal that runs through 2025-26. Figures from the 2019-20 season show that each of the Power 5 leagues received a baseline $67 million; the other five FBS conferences shared $92 million. That $470 million is with a four-team playoff; playoff expansion is expected to easily triple (and come close to quadrupling) that amount.
 

DFWJC

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I look for the ACC to make a push soon to add teams. If they don't try to stay relevant they will lose FSU and Clemson. Clemson I believe likes the ACC because they recruit the SEC athletes but don't have to play their schedules.

I think the ACC may reach out to 4 teams to try to stay relevant. Those four teams: Notre Dame they already have a working partnership, West Virginia it is rumored they reached out after WVU committed to big 12, Kansas-Instantly the best basketball conference in the county and a fourth could be a Cincinnati.
The ACC has 14 teams, so maybe adding 2.
Then again, depends on if they get poached.
They are currently (after the recent moves) the 3rd best league, though they actually have more success than the Big Ten, don't have the money.

They have 3 national titles (2 diff teams in last 10 years
Big Ten has 1
Pac 12 have 0
Big 12 have 0
SEC has 6….lol
 

jterrell

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Big 10 has been trying to get to 16 teams, they just completed skipped over the Big 12 (I guess they didn't like any of the remaining teams). Notre Dame is already in the ACC so they don't need to add them. They could definitely add one more team to get to 16. For the last ten years or so, in the two major sports the ACC has won more NCs than the other conferences besides the SEC.
The ACC has 4 major issues:
First: They do NOT have ND now fully in the fold and they need to get them there without losing them to the all-powerful B10 which can offer more of everything to ND including rivalries, footprint, recruiting, donor eyeballs. and of course media rights pay out. ===This could save them as a top tier conf for sure.
Second: They are in a tough spot geographically as the Big10 and SEC surround them like vultures.
Third: The TV deal sucks and lasts forever.
Fourth: The league is insanely top heavy with only ND partial member, Clemson and FSU bringing much value financially. UNC/VA /Duke bring something but it's not high dollar football money enough to carry a conference.

The Big 12 WAS headed to being the first of the P5 to drop but Bowlsby sued ESPN and put everyone on notice. Had the B1G taken Kansas it would have ended things but basketball is worth like 1/4 what football is and they wouldn't take them.
That allowed B12 to expand with the 4 most valuable remaining teams from under the ACC's noses. UCF, Cinci, HOU would have all been good ACC targets.

Now it Appears the first will be the Pac12. And as that gobble up occurs the ACC is opposite side of the country with travel and logistical challenges. So the best values go B1G then the next properties go Big12.
More than that when SEC sees B10 they are very unlikely to standstill. How do you answer B1G grabbing USC/UCLA/ND/Standford? By taking Clemson, FSU, UNC, NC State or Virginia??
And all ESPN has to do is keep paying whatever remains of the ACC until 2036 to remain above a lawsuit. Let them decide to add Memphis, South Florida or whomever at those rates. But it likely ends up a Gof5 level conf.
 

uvaballa

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As long as ND football has their own TV deal I don’t see them leaving and I see that being a hurdle in recruiting them. They can have their cake and eat it too. Plus ND football already plays their rivals every year. ND hasn’t brought a ton to the ACC basketball wise but they did have a nice run in baseball this year. I already heard rumors SEC is looking at possibly adding FSU/Clemson/UNC/UVA. So we’ll see how this plays out. Not really a huge college football guy so it doesn’t matter to me.

BIG10 hasn’t won a basketball championship in 20 years and only OSU has two football championships in the last 20 years. They should be doing all they can to improve that conference.
 

jterrell

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The ACC has 14 teams, so maybe adding 2.
Then again, depends on if they get poached.
They are currently (after the recent moves) the 3rd best league, though they actually have more success than the Big Ten, don't have the money.

They have 3 national titles (2 diff teams in last 10 years
Big Ten has 1
Pac 12 have 0
Big 12 have 0
SEC has 6….lol
If the ACC falls what conference do you want UNC to join?

When Big 12 failure seemed imminent, I know Texas Tech fans wore torn over 3 choices:
1. SEC for power, rivalries and prestige though likely not competitive in football for at least a decade.
2. PAC 12 for awesome travel. Games in LA, Oregon, Denver, Tourneys in Vegas very much appealed.
3. ACC for creating best basketball conf by a mile. Bring Kansas and dominate top 15 yearly. Very competitive as 2nd tier football program behind the powers of ND/Clemson.
But Tech fans preferred all 3 over remaining a group of 5 level league which was a scary possibility.
 

jterrell

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As long as ND football has their own TV deal I don’t see them leaving and I see that being a hurdle in recruiting them. They can have their cake and eat it too. Plus ND football already plays their rivals every year. ND hasn’t brought a ton to the ACC basketball wise but they did have a nice run in baseball this year. I already heard rumors SEC is looking at possibly adding FSU/Clemson/UNC/UVA. So we’ll see how this plays out. Not really a huge college football guy so it doesn’t matter to me.

BIG10 hasn’t won a basketball championship in 20 years and only OSU has two football championships in the last 20 years. They should be doing all they can to improve that conference.
The NBC deal ends in 2025.
USC and Stanford are pushing ND hard.
No way either wants to play B1G plus ND as a non-conf yearly.
ND would have its' rivalry base covered big time and be covered at 60-100m a year.
It also aligns academically.

Hard to see them refuse but ACC should be very creative here in trying.
With ND ACC is a big fish. Without them they are ripe for takeover.
All that said like the hanged man meme, this is one of those "First time" things.
ACC is legit facing extermination as Big 12 and Pac 12 have recently.
 

Ghost12

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The ACC has 4 major issues:
First: They do NOT have ND now fully in the fold and they need to get them there without losing them to the all-powerful B10 which can offer more of everything to ND including rivalries, footprint, recruiting, donor eyeballs. and of course media rights pay out. ===This could save them as a top tier conf for sure.
1) Notre Dame football is contractually forbidden from joining a rival conference while they are a member of the ACC in all other sports, and their ACC contract runs another 15 years. So while ND football is allowed to join the ACC, they ain't going anywhere else until the mid-30's.

2) So long as they are able to get good matchups on their schedule and are a part of any future national championship format, ND football ain't joining anything. And there is no indication that either of those things are going to change anytime soon.
The NBC deal ends in 2025.
USC and Stanford are pushing ND hard.
No way either wants to play B1G plus ND as a non-conf yearly.
Why not? USC has played ND every year (except the pandemic year) for almost 90 years. Changing to the Big 10 won't matter much to change that.

As for Stanford.... they do play ND somewhat regularly, but they are not an annual rivalry. If Stanford-ND went away, it would hardly be earth shattering.
 

jterrell

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1) Notre Dame football is contractually forbidden from joining a rival conference while they are a member of the ACC in all other sports, and their ACC contract runs another 15 years. So while ND football is allowed to join the ACC, they ain't going anywhere else until the mid-30's.

2) So long as they are able to get good matchups on their schedule and are a part of any future national championship format, ND football ain't joining anything. And there is no indication that either of those things are going to change anytime soom.
What about the ACC buyout, you say? The Irish are contractually tied to that conference through their other sports, and Notre Dame plays a limited amount of football games against ACC competition.

Whatever the buyout, I’m guessing the Irish could raise that amount after one passing of the collection plate at their chapel on campus.

It’s always about the money.
 

jterrell

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What about the ACC buyout, you say? The Irish are contractually tied to that conference through their other sports, and Notre Dame plays a limited amount of football games against ACC competition.

Whatever the buyout, I’m guessing the Irish could raise that amount after one passing of the collection plate at their chapel on campus.

It’s always about the money.
and each Big 10 team is getting 80-100 million. with Notre Dame in the fold bet on the 100M mark.
 

jterrell

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1) Notre Dame football is contractually forbidden from joining a rival conference while they are a member of the ACC in all other sports, and their ACC contract runs another 15 years. So while ND football is allowed to join the ACC, they ain't going anywhere else until the mid-30's.

2) So long as they are able to get good matchups on their schedule and are a part of any future national championship format, ND football ain't joining anything. And there is no indication that either of those things are going to change anytime soon.
Why not? USC has played ND every year (except the pandemic year) for almost 90 years. Changing to the Big 10 won't matter much to change that.

As for Stanford.... they do play ND somewhat regularly, but they are not an annual rivalry. If Stanford-ND went away, it would hardly be earth shattering.
also keep in mind, the B1G could merely grab any ACC schools it felt fit leaving ND is a worse conf if they refused.
This is all a house of card and money and power are winning every hand.
What Notre Dame would owe would depend on the ACC even existing in its current form in 2 years. That may now not happen.

The number is 20. Conferences are being selective. But they can and will likely expand if that is what it takes to win the biggest prizes.

If the Big 10 gets rebuffed perhaps they say OK, cool, No Stanford but we take UNC/Viriginia as academic institutions and basketball powers?
What if Big 10 says look we will forbid our teams form playing you in football or 30 years?

The ACC's best bet may be to disband and reform under a diff brand with no TV contract but built around Notre Dame .
 

jterrell

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2) So long as they are able to get good matchups on their schedule and are a part of any future national championship format, ND football ain't joining anything. And there is no indication that either of those things are going to change anytime soon.
Why not? USC has played ND every year (except the pandemic year) for almost 90 years. Changing to the Big 10 won't matter much to change that.

As for Stanford.... they do play ND somewhat regularly, but they are not an annual rivalry. If Stanford-ND went away, it would hardly be earth shattering.

USC won't want to play a MUCH tougher B1G schedule then take on USC as well.
They will already play plenty in the heartland.
And the B1G simply may not let them.

As for Stanford. Untrue. They've played every year of the last 24 but once. Covid.
There is a large very wealthy Catholic base in California that Notre Dame wants to play in front of.
 

jterrell

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The Big 12 got massively played by the SEC. They patted Big 12 on back while letting ESPN court OUT for them.

But it was nowhere near as big as what the "Alliance" led by the Big 10 formed in response to that SEC aggression did to its' partner teams.
ACC and PAC 12 could have had 12 team CFP expansion with a guaranteed slot locked down but voted with the Alliance.

Hilarious levels of back-stabbing on both cases.
 

Ghost12

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also keep in mind, the B1G could merely grab any ACC schools it felt fit leaving ND is a worse conf if they refused.
ND is a football school. They are not in a conference in football, so you can't make their conference "worse". Oh sure, basketball and soccer would be worse off but ND does not even remotely consider basketball and soccer when they make their decisions.

Sure, if the money makes sense, they would likely join a conference. But there is a long way to go before the money makes sense for them. It is not a simple matter of looking at the projected $80 - $100 million per school number.

Besides, if ND did quit the ACC with the intention of joining a conference, why would they choose the Big 10 over the SEC? I am sure the SEC would be plenty happy to bring them on board.
 

jterrell

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ND is a football school. They are not in a conference in football, so you can't make their conference "worse". Oh sure, basketball and soccer would be worse off but ND does not even remotely consider basketball and soccer when they make their decisions.

Sure, if the money makes sense, they would likely join a conference. But there is a long way to go before the money makes sense for them. It is not a simple matter of looking at the projected $80 - $100 million per school number.

Besides, if ND did quit the ACC with the intention of joining a conference, why would they choose the Big 10 over the SEC? I am sure the SEC would be plenty happy to bring them on board.
My dude I can lead horses to water but I can't make them drink. Try google.

Money is what matters and right now they joined ACC in a limited basis to keep ties to the rivalries schools. The overwhelming majority of those school now land in the Big 10.
ND was making 15M a year for their home game rights from NBC.
Now they will get offered a 100M a year from the B1G.

SEC makes plenty of money but is a farrrrr inferior academic league than B1G with mnay poor states in play that do not drive Catholic coffers.
 

Ghost12

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USC won't want to play a MUCH tougher B1G schedule then take on USC as well.
Why not? If the money is there, they will want to.
They will already play plenty in the heartland.
And the B1G simply may not let them.
Since when can a conference forbid a team from playing a couple OOC games of their choosing??

As for Stanford. Untrue. They've played every year of the last 24 but once. Covid.
24 years? Is that supposed to be impressive? College football has rivalries that are at or near the century mark. Notre Dame has 2 rivals that they have played every year (except for war or pandemic) for 90+ years. A 24 year rivalry is a minor blip that few would miss if it went away.
 
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Ghost12

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My dude I can lead horses to water but I can't make them drink. Try google.
I highly advise you to do the same. There are a lot more monies involved than the simple equation you posted.

People have been saying "this is it.... with all these changes, now Notre Dame is going to have to join a conference..." for almost 40 years now.
SEC makes plenty of money but is a farrrrr inferior academic league
LOL!! A couple posts ago, you literally said "It’s always about the money." So which is it? Is it about the money, or the academics?
than B1G with mnay poor states in play that do not drive Catholic coffers.
The SEC may have some poor states, but they sure aren't poor when it comes to college football. When it comes to college football, even "poor states" like Alabama and Louisiana are making - and spending - more than any of the northern states are.

My dude I can lead horses to water but I can't make them drink.
 

jterrell

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Why not? If the money is there, they will want to.
Since when can a conference forbid a team from playing a couple OOC games of their choosing??

24 years? Is that supposed to be impressive? College football has rivalries that are at or near the century mark. Notre Dame has 2 rivals that they have played every year (except for war or pandemic) for 90+ years. A 24 year rivalry is a minor blip that few would miss if it went away.
SEC has prevented TAMU from playing Texas Tech and UT for all this time.
Conferences make strong suggestions that teams follow.
Especially in new powerful conferences.

24 years matter. And it matters to ND who wants to maintain that West coast presence for recruiting and fund raising.

I am on these college threads a lot and the stuff I type out comes to fruition with more regularity than literally anyone else here.
Do not listen to me but do go and read various ND pundits takes.
Joining the B1G is very real as possibility for 2025.
And the SEC has said if that happens they will approach Clemson/FSU and others to keep pace with the SEC. --Read some Clemson/FSU sites.
Those 2 power conferences are gobbling the entities worth the most money.
They want very large shares of those playoff tv deals which will pay out per game per team.
They need the numbers and power to get those votes to go their way for a major expansion to 12 or 16 and they need the quality of teams to win those games.

Notre Dame isn't going to lose out on millions upon millions. What NBC pays them isn't that grand.
 
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