'Big Bang' actually 'Big Chill,' new theory says

[JD_KaPow]

The smartest people on the planet once thought it was flat
the smartest people on the planet once thought the sun revolved around the earth
The smartest people on the planet once though man would never fly

The smartest people on the planet once thought man made the earth warm up

Wow, you couldn't possibly have that more backwards.

The "smartest people on the planet" concluded that the planet wasn't flat. Everyone else said they were nuts for a long time.

The "smartest people on the planet" concluded that the earth revolved around the sun. They were excommunicated and worse.

I don't know of a time when the "smartest people on the planet" thought man would never fly. Heck, Da Vinci designed flying machines. I'm pretty sure it was "everyone else" who said man wasn't meant to fly.

Those views you refer to changed because scientists were willing to challenge conventional wisdom, sometimes at great personal risk.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

I was having a bad day. This thread made me laugh, however.

 

[baj1dallas]

But it's why they call it a "Theory"... so they can come back later and amend any new findings...

Science is not an "Exact Science" so to speak when it comes to history... heck, Pluto was in our Solar System until 2006...

When they know for sure it will be labeled as "Law of Evolution" or "Theorem of Evolution"...

I'm not saying they are wrong, just providing the most common example... Scientists build in the "add more later" but many in the outside world take it for 100% accurate as new things are found...

Science isn't an answer or a set of laws. It isn't a philosophical explanation. It has nothing to do with "faith" or religion.

Science is a method. A method for describing the natural universe. Everything in science is based on hypothesis. Hypothesis that explains the natural "world". If it cannot be tested, it is not science. Science is the method of describing or characterizing naturally occuring phenomena via measurable evidence. A "scientific law" is not just a proven "theory".

 

[baj1dallas]

That's an excellent question. When you know let me in and we'll share the Nobel prize.

hah I darn near flunked out of quantum physics so no Nobel prize for me

 

[justbob]

Discuss all you want to ---but back off the personal jabs

 

[trickblue]

Science isn't an answer or a set of laws. It isn't a philosophical explanation. It has nothing to do with "faith" or religion.

Science is a method. A method for describing the natural universe. Everything in science is based on hypothesis. Hypothesis that explains the natural "world". If it cannot be tested, it is not science. Science is the method of describing or characterizing naturally occuring phenomena via measurable evidence. A "scientific law" is not just a proven "theory".

Never said it had to do with religion... I said it had to do with faith...

Faith is practiced every day by most everyone, but is usually only used in a negative connotation against religion...

I wish people would READ my posts instead of picking out key words to go in to attack mode...

I'm not singling you out baj... I've just noticed SOME replies are picking up key words and taking things out of context...

 

[jobberone]

Never said it had to do with religion... I said it had to do with faith...

Faith is practiced every day by most everyone, but is usually only used in a negative connotation against religion...

I wish people would READ my posts instead of picking out key words to go in to attack mode...

I understood what you were trying to say and I understand your restraint because you are a moderator.

However, the personal attacks are going to stop here and now. There will be no further warnings.

 

[dez_for_prez]

Never said it had to do with religion... I said it had to do with faith...

Faith is practiced every day by most everyone, but is usually only used in a negative connotation against religion...

I wish people would READ my posts instead of picking out key words to go in to attack mode...

I'm not singling you out baj... I've just noticed SOME replies are picking
up key words and taking things out of context...

Are you argueing, everyone has faith, some just have it in science?

 

[justbob]

Are you argueing, everyone has faith, some just have it in science?

Nope- that would be another thread

 

[trickblue]

Are you argueing, everyone has faith, some just have it in science?

Nope... arguing that everyone has faith... it's a basic human trait...

 

[justbob]

Nope... arguing that everyone has faith... it's a basic human trait...

They're only seeing what they want to see Trick

 

[ScipioCowboy]

One point about evolution: We tend to think of evolution in purely biological terms; however, at the most fundamental level, evolution is simply a process of change and describing how changes come about.

In addition to biological evolution, there's stellar evolution, planetary evolution, etc. etc.

Science seeks to explain all phenomena as an evolutionary process. Consequently, evolution isn't just the best possible explanation. It's the only possible explanation in a scientific context. That's because science seeks to reduce everything into predictive, cause-and-effect models.

This is a philosophical position known as Methodological Naturalism. It's provided a highly beneficial and highly informative means of examining the world.

However, it does break down in certain instances, such as understanding the behavior of humans or intelligent agents in general. That's because the models we use to predict human behavior actually influence that behavior once they become public knowledge. You see this affect in economics all the time. That's why economic is often described as the dismal science. See my sig quote.

 

[masomenos]

Nope... arguing that everyone has faith... it's a basic human trait...

I'd be willing to agree with that but with caveat. Faith can mean multiple things. In the most general sense, faith simply means complete trust. To steal an example from one of my earlier posts, every time I stand up to toggle a light switch I am taking a small leap of faith. I trust that the light will turn on.

In a more specific sense, when referring to religion (which I will only mention right there, mods) faith means something else. It is trust based on spiritual conviction.

I would agree that everyone has the first kind of faith but not the second.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

One point about evolution: We tend to think of evolution in purely biological terms; however, at the most fundamental level, evolution is simply a process of change and describing how changes come about.

In addition to biological evolution, there's stellar evolution, planetary evolution, etc. etc.

Science seeks to explain all phenomena as an evolutionary process. Consequently, evolution isn't just the best possible explanation. It's the only possible explanation in a scientific context. That's because science seeks to reduce everything into predictive, cause-and-effect models.

This is a philosophical position known as Methodological Naturalism. It's provided a highly beneficial and highly informative means of examining the world.

However, it does break down in certain instances, such as understanding the behavior of humans or intelligent agents in general. That's because the models we use to predict human behavior actually influence that behavior once they become public knowledge. You see this affect in economics all the time. That's why economic is often described as the dismal science. See my sig quote.

Evolution, the change of frequency of any set of alleles within a population. :

 

[trickblue]

I'd be willing to agree with that but with caveat. Faith can mean multiple things. In the most general sense, faith simply means complete trust. To steal an example from one of my earlier posts, every time I stand up to toggle a light switch I am taking a small leap of faith. I trust that the light will turn on.

In a more specific sense, when referring to religion (which I will only mention right there, mods) faith means something else. It is trust based on spiritual conviction.

I would agree that everyone has the first kind of faith but not the second.

The two are not different, Mas...

You know me to be reasonable person... I think BOTH sides have carved out a difference which isn't warranted...

Faith is faith is faith... it's not a religious term... it's a way of life and we all do it on a daily basis...

We have faith in the brakes on our cars... we have faith in our friends... we have faith in our family... we have faith in our football team (ok... I know that one has been tough lately)...

That's all I have been saying...

Again, science is paramount in our society, but things taken for scientific truth today may not be relevant in 100 years...

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Evolution, the change of frequency of any set of alleles within a population. :

If you can work alleles into a casual conversation, you win the Internet. Literally. I mean, Al Gore sends you three free interwebs in the mail.

True story.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Nope... arguing that everyone has faith... it's a basic human trait...

This is true. You can find it in every culture known to man. More importantly, you can find men having faith within the present culture in spite of science. There is no a culture known to man that didn't have faith. One of the most interesting philosophical lecture I ever heard was on this topic.

 

[trickblue]

If you can work alleles into a casual conversation, you win the Internet. Literally. I mean, Al Gore sends you three free interwebs in the mail.

True story.

He worked it in... he's a smart guy... no doubt...

I'm certainly not a scientist, but I remember the classes I had to take...

Are his diploids homozygote or heterozygote? Do his alleles match or not...

Homologous chromosomes are a weird thing...

I am no expert, but I am not totally foreign to this stuff... it would be like him trying to discuss the utility industry with me...

He would have some valid points, but wouldn't get the whole picture unless he was in the industry...

I have never claimed to have all of the answers, but I know enough to get into the fray...

 

[masomenos]

The two are not different, Mas...

You know me to be reasonable person... I think BOTH sides have carved out a difference which isn't warranted...

Faith is faith is faith... it's not a religious term... it's a way of life and we all do it on a daily basis...

We have faith in the brakes on our cars... we have faith in our friends... we have faith in our family... we have faith in our football team (ok... I know that one has been tough lately)...

That's all I have been saying...

Again, science is paramount in our society, but things taken for scientific truth today may not be relevant in 100 years...

I have to disagree. If you go through the works of religious scholars and philosophers like St. Thomas Aquinas, you read a lot about the intersection of faith and reason. One of the things that comes out of that is contrasting forms of knowledge. Religious faith isn't mere trust, it is considered to be "revealed knowledge". It is truth, absolute and certain. Knowledge based on reason is different, it is knowledge based on probability.

So, when I'm toggling my light switch my faith, my trust, that the light will turn on is faith based on reason. My faith is falliable and my knowledge uncertain. Religious faith is neither of those things.

Where as a failed result of going 10 days without my light switch working properly will make me stop flipping the switch, something else happens with religious faith. When confronted with unbearable circumstances, Job's faith remains. When given an order to sacrifice his son, Abraham's faith remains. When Daniel is thrown to the lions, his faith remains. Religious faith is faith that is not contingent on changing circumstances because it is faith in truth, not probability, not reason. It is often faith in spite of reason.

Religious faith is much stronger than conventional faith or trust and I absolutely don't think they can be considered the same thing.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

The two are not different, Mas...

You know me to be reasonable person... I think BOTH sides have carved out a difference which isn't warranted...

Faith is faith is faith... it's not a religious term... it's a way of life and we all do it on a daily basis...

We have faith in the brakes on our cars... we have faith in our friends... we have faith in our family... we have faith in our football team (ok... I know that one has been tough lately)...

That's all I have been saying...

Again, science is paramount in our society, but things taken for scientific truth today may not be relevant in 100 years...

Ah, nevermind.