Bigger black mark on respective sport * Cheatriots or Black Sox?

[LittleBoyBlue]

You simply don't like my answer - that simple.

My answer is based on what was done and does not care who the teams were - just like judges and arbitrators do.

If it was any of the other 31 teams that did DeflateGate and had a similar recent past, my answer would be exactly the same - exactly. It already should have been clear I already said the Black Sox 1919 scandal was the bigger black mark. I'll add it's the biggest American sports scandal ever.

Actually. You answered it at the end of your post. Thank you.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Oh Lord.

He took the money. That's all you need to know.

There's no way to prove one way or another what went through his head or what decisions he made on the field. But there is certainly evidence to suggest that he was complicit. He gave up three triples to his field during the series, which is (and was even then) pretty unusual for a left fielder. He hit .286 in the games they lost (threw), but .545 in the games they won (didn't throw). He had a homer and a two-run double in the last game, but the homer was a solo shot when they were down 5-0 and the double came when they were down 10-1. In games 1 and 4, where Cicotte was the pitcher and they were certainly throwing them, he went 0-4.

Given that he took the money, it takes overwhelming evidence to persuasively argue that he didn't participate in throwing the games. No such evidence exists.

Interesting. Thank you got that.

 

[Rogah]

Comparing intentionally losing the 1919 World Series that almost ruined baseball to a playoff game already decided on ball inflation - no comparison. QBs like Rodgers like more PSI, but it certainly does not factor close to players blowing a game. And the NFL is doing very well.

If Goodell was a competent commissioner, he would have investigated the Patriots over the years to settle all the conspiracy theories. I'm skeptical any team is able to systematically cheat for 15 years and gain a substantial point advantage (3 points or more.) This is just haters dreaming.

Eh, don't worry so much about what the haters are saying. I don't think they even believe their own nonsense.

The Black Sox scandal is literally something people remember (almost) 100 years later. 100 years from now, people will still remember the Black Sox, but no one will care about minimal amounts of PSI, or all the lies the NFL Front Office told when they set up their sting operation and attempted to frame an innocent man.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Eh, don't worry so much about what the haters are saying. I don't think they even believe their own nonsense.

The Black Sox scandal is literally something people remember (almost) 100 years later. 100 years from now, people will still remember the Black Sox, but no one will care about minimal amounts of PSI, or all the lies the NFL Front Office told when they set up their sting operation and attempted to frame an innocent man.

Caught cheating 2-3 times
Winning 4 Super Bowls... One was brain fart by other coach
Lose the Super Bowl when they can't cheat.

Yeah, the legacy will be... They only won Super Bowl when cheating.
When they couldn't cheat - they lost Super Bowls.

 

[Rogah]

You simply don't like my answer - that simple.

That happens a lot here; you answer a question but it wasn't the answer someone was looking for, so they say you didn't answer it.

It's all noise designed to distract from the fact that individuals at the league office have now been exposed as lying about the Patriots and the ball measurements to try and frame an innocent man and an innocent team.

The truth will come out (in fact it has already started to). Just takes some patience.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

The scandals deserving to vie with the 1919 Black Sox fix are the steriods abuse in MLB in the 90's and college's biggest hit: the Jerry Sandusky @ Penn State scandal.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

P.S. Really sad to see Joe Paterno go out the way he did. Yes, he should have dealt with Sandusky years before the law did. While he's a tarnished role model, I hope over time people see the good outweighed the bad - not an NCAA saint, but a good guy that really let us down.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

That happens a lot here; you answer a question but it wasn't the answer someone was looking for, so they say you didn't answer it.

It's all noise designed to distract from the fact that individuals at the league office have now been exposed as lying about the Patriots and the ball measurements to try and frame an innocent man and an innocent team.

The truth will come out (in fact it has already started to). Just takes some patience.

 

[Rogah]

The scandals deserving to vie with the 1919 Black Sox fix are the steriods abuse in MLB in the 90's and college's biggest hit: the Jerry Sandusky @ Penn State scandal.

Sandusky's crimes far exceed all the rest, but I don't know if history will remember it as a "sports scandal." Obviously it happened in the athletic department of a major, top-division university football program, but it's an issue that took place entirely outside the lines.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Black Sox. MLB did nothing to cover up the Black Sox scandal and made it be known that the players were bought and paid for by the gamblers.

This was a big problem for sports at the time because of the mafia's status in society and the sports world.

Even if we look at the Tim Donaghy scandal in the NBA, the basketball world went on because 99% of fans assume that the games are not mafia influenced. That wasn't the case at the time of the Black Sox scandal and for good reason.

The other issue is that the NFL covered up SpyGate, so we don't know what really went on.

Lastly, the Patriots at least cheated to give themselves the advantage in order to win. The Black Sox threw games. That will always be viewed in a different spotlight.





YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It's all noise designed to distract from the fact that individuals at the league office have now been exposed as lying about the Patriots and the ball measurements to try and frame an innocent man and an innocent team.

The truth will come out (in fact it has already started to). Just takes some patience.

You must take cues from Robert Kraft as you said that you would be willing to take whatever the Wells Report concludes.

That's why people take you with a grain of salt and see you as a Patriots troll.

It's one thing to argue how much the deflation of footballs helped the Patriots over the years (although you still owe Warren Sharp an apology), but it's another to try and proclaim that Brady is innocent when the Wells Report shows otherwise. You could have prevented this hypocrisy if you were not so hell bent in acting like you knew what the Wells Report was going to say and then foolishly admonished people like myself that don't take things at face value.

The facts are that the league had the balls in questions and showed that the Patriots footballs were well underinflated while the Colts footballs were not. That they have video of the equipment guy breaking protocol and going into a bathroom by himself with the footballs and having more than enough time to deflate them. And they have texts showing the equipment guys discussing deflating the footballs with one acting as an intermediary who is setting up a payment situation from Brady to the 'deflator.'

Oh, and the Patriots fired both equipment guys after the report came about.

So...we have the evidence that shows the balls were actually underinflated, we have evidence that shows how and when they were underinflated and who underinflated, along with evidence showing the planning and motive for underinflating the footballs. Then we have the Patriots essentially admitting guilt by firing 2 men after the scandal came about. There's nothing innocent about Brady in this.






YR

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Black Sox. MLB did nothing to cover up the Black Sox scandal and made it be known that the players were bought and paid for by the gamblers.

This was a big problem for sports at the time because of the mafia's status in society and the sports world.

Even if we look at the Tim Donaghy scandal in the NBA, the basketball world went on because 99% of fans assume that the games are not mafia influenced. That wasn't the case at the time of the Black Sox scandal and for good reason.

The other issue is that the NFL covered up SpyGate, so we don't know what really went on.

Lastly, the Patriots at least cheated to give themselves the advantage in order to win. The Black Sox threw games. That will always be viewed in a different spotlight.





YR

You actually make the case for patriots /spygate/deflategate/etc-gate to be worse by nfl destroying evidence and covering it up.

 

[Rogah]

P.S. Really sad to see Joe Paterno go out the way he did. Yes, he should have dealt with Sandusky years before the law did. While he's a tarnished role model, I hope over time people see the good outweighed the bad - not an NCAA saint, but a good guy that really let us down.

I think history will be more kind to Paterno than the media was when the whole thing exploded. I know my stance has softened somewhat. I think your characterization of a "good guy that really let us down" is fair.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You actually make the case for patriots /spygate/deflategate/etc-gate to be worse by nfl destroying evidence and covering it up.

I don't think so.

The NFL is still thriving.

The Black Sox scandal nearly killed baseball. It was not until Babe Ruth came along as a hitter (he had a season where he hit more HR's than the entire league combined) that the fans started to trust it again. It's why baseball is so stringent on any person involved in the game that is even near the gambling scene to this day. You don't see this in basketball which is actually a far easier game to shave points on.

And again, it's about what the end game is...cheating to win or losing games on purpose.

I think what the Patriots have done is reprehensible, but there's just a different light of somebody cheating to win rather than throwing games.





YR

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I don't think so.

The NFL is still thriving.

The Black Sox scandal nearly killed baseball. It was not until Babe Ruth came along as a hitter (he had a season where he hit more HR's than the entire league combined) that the fans started to trust it again. It's why baseball is so stringent on any person involved in the game that is even near the gambling scene to this day. You don't see this in basketball which is actually a far easier game to shave points on.

And again, it's about what the end game is...cheating to win or losing games on purpose.

I think what the Patriots have done is reprehensible, but there's just a different light of somebody cheating to win rather than throwing games.





YR

I hear ya. Good points.

But there is a flip side. They cheated to win... Thereby causing a team ie. The eagles to not win a Super Bowl.
Don't get me wrong. I loved that they lost and of they lost for the cheating reasons....I don't care. Lol

Guys like McNabb and Owens were robbed.

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

^ Can anyone provide links with something resembling facts the Patriots cheated on the Eagles in the SB?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I hear ya. Good points.

But there is a flip side. They cheated to win... Thereby causing a team ie. The eagles to not win a Super Bowl.
Don't get me wrong. I loved that they lost and of they lost for the cheating reasons....I don't care. Lol

Guys like McNabb and Owens were robbed.

But compared to the Black Sox scandal which almost killed the actual sport...it's not close.

I think what the Patriots have done over the years is reprehensible and a big reason why this didn't do more damage than the Black Sox scandal is that the league covered it up and today's society is different (and it wasn't involved with illegal gambling and the mafia).





YR

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

^ Can anyone provide links with something resembling facts the Patriots cheated on the Eagles in the SB?

It's easy to post as you "show me how they cheated" posters do.

You are not taking into consideration... What if YOU were the player?

Kurt Warner
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...nders-if-patriots-cheated-in-super-bowl-xxxvi

Others
http://espn.go.com/blog/philadelphi...6/eagles-lost-super-bowl-to-pats-pre-scandals

http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/bill-belichick-patriots-cheated-super-bowl-xxxix-hollis-thomas

But compared to the Black Sox scandal which almost killed the actual sport...it's not close.

I think what the Patriots have done over the years is reprehensible and a big reason why this didn't do more damage than the Black Sox scandal is that the league covered it up and today's society is different (and it wasn't involved with illegal gambling and the mafia).

Y

 

[BringBackThatOleTimeBoys]

It's easy to post as you "show me how they cheated" posters do.

You are not taking into consideration... What if YOU were the player?

Kurt Warner
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...nders-if-patriots-cheated-in-super-bowl-xxxvi

Others
http://espn.go.com/blog/philadelphi...6/eagles-lost-super-bowl-to-pats-pre-scandals

http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/bill-belichick-patriots-cheated-super-bowl-xxxix-hollis-thomas




Y

The three links cover suspicions, not facts.

This is not remotely close to the kind of proof finally put against Lance Armstrong that he cheated. I did not want to believe LA did it, but when the evidence was overwhelming, I had to accept it.

While I don't accept the above as facts, years ago these people should have brought it to the attention of the NFL commissioner and there should have been a general investigation. What would be more credible is players and coaches on or were with the Patriots confirming ball handling, etc.

What would it take for me to believe the Patriots cheat to the point of a 3 point advantage? More coaches than Eric M along with other players mentioning practices other than filming, inflation, painting a picture of a sophisticated operation. It's been implied for a long time, but why haven't we had ex-Pats sing?

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

The three links cover suspicions, not facts.

This is not remotely close to the kind of proof finally put against Lance Armstrong that he cheated. I did not want to believe LA did it, but when the evidence was overwhelming, I had to accept it.

While I don't accept the above as facts, years ago these people should have brought it to the attention of the NFL commissioner and there should have been a general investigation. What would be more credible is players and coaches on or were with the Patriots confirming ball handling, etc.

What would it take for me to believe the Patriots cheat to the point of a 3 point advantage? More coaches than Eric M along with other players mentioning practices other than filming, inflation, painting a picture of a sophisticated operation. It's been implied for a long time, but why haven't we had ex-Pats sing?

Suspicions based of the fact of cheating. How convenient that you want overwhelming hard evidence. Funny.

Again. If it was you or me being cheated. We'd be pissed and would cheated.... We wouldn't feel like we needed to do more. May have been ineffective.