Bigger black mark on respective sport * Cheatriots or Black Sox?

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BringBackThatOleTimeBoys

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^ You have a problem with me not accepting a lot of hearsay as proof. When did courts convict simply on: "a lot of people thought they did it?"

If I dug up posts on Lance Armstrong, I'd bet lots here believed he was innocent...I was one of those, but accepted he was guilty when it was clear he doped. Guess that's not good enough for you - want me to blindly agree with you because you have strong feelings about this.

If you are right, facts will be found supporting your view.
 
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LittleBoyBlue

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^ You have a problem with me not accepting a lot of hearsay as proof. When did courts convict simply on: "a lot of people thought they did it?"

If I dug up posts on Lance Armstrong, I'd bet lots here believed he was innocent...I was one of those, but accepted he was guilty when it was clear he doped. Guess that's not good enough for you - want me to blindly agree with you because you have strong feelings about this.

If you are right, facts will be found supporting your view.



I don't care if you agree with me. I am not tying to change your mind. Common sense will tell you plenty of things happen that cannot be proven.

Here a few things we know... Off the top of my head.

1. There was enough evidence that the nfl thought they had to destroy it and did. VERDICT: INNOCENT

2. There were fines and losses of picks. VERDICT: INNOCENT

3. Balls were deflated by patriots employees taut have since been fired in tandem with the explanation from Brady that NO ONE IN THE PATS ORGANIZATIOM did anything wrong. Still fired. VERDICT: INNOCENT

4. Brady wouldn't hand over phone and destroyed it. If there was nothing to hide then why do that? VERDICT: INNOCENT

5. Kraft. I accept the fine and punishment. I'm innocent and so are my guys but I will pay $1 million dollars (paid $500k for SPYGATE) innocent then too... I will give up draft picks AGAIN. But it's ok. VERDICT: INNOCENT

Do you see how friggin stupid that is.... Just reading those facts?
 

Rogah

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^ You have a problem with me not accepting a lot of hearsay as proof. When did courts convict simply on: "a lot of people thought they did it?"

If I dug up posts on Lance Armstrong, I'd bet lots here believed he was innocent...I was one of those, but accepted he was guilty when it was clear he doped. Guess that's not good enough for you - want me to blindly agree with you because you have strong feelings about this.

If you are right, facts will be found supporting your view.
Anyone following the news today is getting a pretty good idea why Brady didn't hand over his phone.

The league has been proven to have told multiple lies over this whole incident. They lied to the Patriots, they lied to the media, they lied to the public, they lied at the appeal hearing. In fact, the only one who isn't lying is Brady himself.

But to some people league lies = VERDICT: BRADY IS GUILTY
 

JoeyBoy718

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Anyone following the news today is getting a pretty good idea why Brady didn't hand over his phone.

The league has been proven to have told multiple lies over this whole incident. They lied to the Patriots, they lied to the media, they lied to the public, they lied at the appeal hearing. In fact, the only one who isn't lying is Brady himself.

But to some people league lies = VERDICT: BRADY IS GUILTY

Training camp started. Do you have any interest in what's going on right now? Position battles, rookies and sophomores progressing, players taking the next step, players gelling together, etc. It's one of the best times of the year (along with the draft and the start of the season)... if you're a football fan.
 

LittleBoyBlue

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VERDICT: BRADY IS GUILTY


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JoeyBoy718

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I don't get involved in players' personal lives and politics associated. I don't read pages and pages of transcripts to try to decide whether or not Greg Hardy did it. Why? Because I'm not an idiot and I know not to look up to professional athletes for moral advice. The same way I knew not to shoot up my high school because I liked Tupac and Eminem.

I don't care what Big Ben did. That's for the courts and the NFL to decide. Some players go to prison, some players get off, some get punished by the NFL, and some don't. I don't really care what they do off the field. But I do care what players do on the field. The only thing I take exception with is cheating. I consider cheating to be anything that gives you an unfair advantage, e.g. steroids and other PEDs (during the season), intentionally injuring opposing players, and systematic cheating like deflating balls and recording practices.

I know you can't catch all the cheaters. You can argue that everyone does it. But you just hope it doesn't compromise the integrity of the game. Baseball has been compromised, in my opinion. Some teams have more money to spend than others, teams and players bet on games, and some of the all-time greats have been caught red handed. I just hope the same doesn't happen to football.

One of the worst things possible is to see a cheater go down in history. You hope you catch them before they can have too big an impact on the game. Shawn Merriman was a monster when he entered the league. Way ahead of Ware. But when he got busted, he immediately become irrelevant. Fortunately he didn't single-handedly lead his team to glory like L.T. did the Giants.

The Saints were trying to hurt players. I believe Greg Williams became the DC the year they won the Super Bowl. They've never been nearly as good since. Hopefully their success wasn't due to cheating. Fortunately, they only won one and not anymore. I like Drew Brees and he deserves to go into the Hall of Fame. I just hope his one win wasn't due to cheating.

And the very fact that Tom Brady's integrity is called into question (whether he did it or not) is tragic. This is a guy I could tell my grandkids that I was proud to watch the greatest QB of all-time for the entirety of his career. I was young at the tail end of Montana's career, but I still remember being enamored by him. And I had the pleasure of being around for all of Manning and Brady. I'm a Cowboys fan but I'm an NFL fan first. I respect Hall of Fame players and well-built organizations that seem to be contenders every year. As much as people hate the Steelers for surpassing us, I have to admit that I respect them a lot more than I do these yearly bottom-feeders like the Browns and Lions. It's good for the sport and it creates a rich history. I just don't want the history of one of the greatest players and teams ever to have an asterisk next to it.

It's a shame. You can argue all you want and try to throw out all the evidence and transcripts that you want. But the simple fact that people are even talking about Brady's and the Patriots' integrity is not good for the game.
 

jobberone

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Two of you will get PMs related to this but I want to be clear to all this sniping at each other then shopping mods to resolve your perceived problem YOUR way is stopping now. I strongly suggest you people either learn to live with each other in a peaceful, respectful and civil way about any and all subjects or either put people on ignore or just refrain from jumping into the fray. The next time I see it I will bench one or all.

Those perceived to be baiting others or trolling and harassing other members will get benched as well.

I'm not saying you must do this at all but I suggest you all take a moratorium re cheating and the Patriots. If you can't refrain then restrain; my new motto.

Don't shoot water guns at each other then whine about getting wet.
 
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