Bill and Jerry Have Enlightened Me

[DipChit]

Its all nice to say in the current environment "I'm only going to get high character guys." But the reality is that most of the super talent in this league have had their ego's fed since they were superstars in college. They received a taste of true money for the first time in the draft - and they want more, and the perceived 'respect' that comes with it. And the only way to do that is to get yourself in the public eye and to put up statistics.

During the CBA nonsense everyone was saying the Cap had caused the quality of the league to diminish greatly. I still think it is in large part also a function of the lack of continuity on teams, and the lack of incentive for a team to play like a team - not 53 individual guys hoping to stand out enough in a crowd to ink their next deal.

Note: I don't think all the players have this mentailty by any means. But it really only takes a certain percentage to bring the quality of the league as a whole very far down.

Right. And so what are we left with as fans besides simply hoping the "team" wins in any particular year?

Aside from 2 or 3 guys.. say like Roy/Terrence/Witten who likely will be here for the long haul, one better not become too fond of a guy like Crayton just for an example. Because even if he has some sort of "breakout" year at some point odds are some other team would throw an absurd amount of money at him that we werent necessarily convinced we should match at the time for whatever reasons.

 

[iceberg]

dcfanatic...

I am as disappointed as I can be in the Cowboys for doing this...

but really... take a look around you and listen to most of these younger fans

they don't care...about morality

it is winning...but it is not just sports but everywhere today...most businesses could care less if they have a good, safe, moral, responsible product as long as it makes money....

well, i care. i know you do too. i agree with reality that it's *us* who pay these prices and sooner or later they'll "hockey out" and realize there is a cap to what people will or can pay and i think we're getting close to it.

now, i'm much like juke. i'll still watch but more in the sense of a movie maybe - or a tv show. but i won't get up and cheer and feel like i'm a part of this team like i have in the past.

yea, i want to win too. but i'll wager a LOT of the fans now licking all over TO last year were very happy the eagles took a stand and sat him down.

now they're making excuses left and right to justify TO. if he were a chief, a vast majority of these new fans would be bagging on the rap song, the book, the chiefs...but simply because he put on "cowboy colors" our values changed.

i hate that, and no - i wont change my values OR stance on TO. he's definately a love him or hate him person and maybe it's time we added "apathetic" to it and many of us just quit watching the baby cry and just get on with our team as best we can and be happy his track record says we won't have to put up with it for very long.

 

[MinnesotaCowboy]

As an old timer, I reserve the right to insert my 2 cents worth here, regardless if it means nothing! I definitely agree with most of you that the old days (before free agency) were a joy to me.........I knew the names, positions, numbers, college they played for, who their wives or girl friends were, blah, blah, blah! I knew who would be back from year to year, who the QB, RB, WR and everybody else who would be returning and could hardly wait for the draft each year to see who would be the next great Cowboy star. Now days, I have a hard time remembering who is presently starting on the team much less all the backups and special team's players although some of this may be from dementia. I, also, was upset about the T.O. signing as I was brought up to respect morality. I also must admit that I was upset with Irvin's jousts with the law, the professed drug users on my beloved Cowboys, the infamous "white house" etc. I am definitely not a prude or dogooder but I find fault with sport higher management for letting our high schools, colleges, and professional sports programs digress to the point that everything is about the bottom line. Kids today who play sports just think about me, me, me.......what has happened to team, team, team. Good or bad, I will never get sports out of my blood and I will always have my favorite teams............especially the Cowboys who I have loved from 1960 to the present. I hated to see Landry fired, Tex retiring early and Jerry's egotism but through it all I will still remain a Cowboy fan with my last dying breath. This whole thread has made me tired......time for a nap!

 

[NorTex]

​

For the longest time I was a sports fool.​

Nothing has changed!

 

[btcutter]

One other thing, what business are you in?

Because if I follow you correctly then having large sums of money invested in partnerships with people means that the morality issues are out the window when it comes to staying in the black as opposed to falling in the red.

Correct?

If so, remind me to never do business with you, lol. Silly me, I was used to doing busines with people who had high moral values in hopes that they didn't rip me off every time I turned my back on them.

Honestly. I completely understand your response, but just because you make a valid point doesn't mean it's the 'way things should be', especially in an environment where children are looking up to the participants. Kids don't care what Bob the executive says on ESPN because no one cares what Bob the executive says about how he runs his toilet paper company which makes 4 million a quarter.

Know what I'm saying, lol.

If you look around, that's often the state of business in America. Enron, MCI, Global Crossing.....on and on......

Crooked people make out like bandits while the good people get screwed over. That why this country is dominated by LAWYERS. There are a handful of good one but most lawyers live off of our fear and each other (lawyers= bottom feeders).

Professional sports = Big business = $$$$ (throw morals, sportsmanship out the door).... if we don't like it, stop paying for tickets, cable, sporting goods etc...

 

[btcutter]

​

For the longest time I was a sports fool. I was totally misinterpreting sports. When the Dallas Cowboys signed Terrell Owens it finally clicked in my head. Sports are about winning and losing, nothing more and nothing less.

There are no lessons taught in sports. People should not tell their kids to play sports for any other reason than to compete in a game and win. There should not be any sort of 'sportsmanship', that's just some word a guy made up. Winning should be the primary focus when your playing a match, contest or game.

The humans who put the uniforms on are no longer people either. They become objects once the shoes are laced up and the chin strap is snapped into place. There are no feelings of friendship or camaraderie between those men out there and surely they don't care if one another gets hurt as long as their team wins.

I wonder how many Cowboy fans were also taught this valuable lesson by these two men last Saturday? Maybe hundreds of 1000's. There are probably some who are even still thinking of sports the old fashion way.

Those days are long gone for me. The days of thinking that I wanted to root for a guy like Troy Aikman because he was a good role model for kids and respected his teammates. I was rooting for him for all the wrong reasons in the early 90's. Thank god he was also winning football games or people would have looked at me like I had two heads.

Enough talk about that bum anyway, he's not helping the Cowboys win games anymore so what do I care about him. Terrell Owens is the guy I want my kids looking up to now. Maybe one day my little guy can sign a multimillion dollar contract in the NFL. Then when he decides that he didn't read the fine print he can just rip his teammates football skills apart on ESPN and they will let him go. Then it's off to another team where he can get an even better contract. Boy, I sure hope Jerry Jones still owns the Cowboys in 20 years.

Have you guys heard the new rap song by my man TO. He's changed the game folks. He showed the other players that if you don't like your contract then just do what he did. This is great, maybe all those other players will be on the Cowboys too. Imagine it now. The Cowboys could win the next twelve Super Bowls.

Coach Parcells is one tricky guy too. I didn't understand his philosophy at first. When he said 'no more thugs" I didn't catch on that it only meant he didn't want any thugs unless it helped him win the football games. TO isn't a thug in the sense of the word that he carries a gun or does drugs, but that's just because his mouth is his weapon and his ego gets him high. He's more of the 'Au Natural Thug'.

I'm kinda glad I learned this lesson right now too because baseball season is here. For the longest time I have been a Mets fan. Not any more. Let's go Yanks. It's obvious they are trying harder and want to win more than the Mets because they spend more money on players. I feel stupid for not rooting for them over the past few years. I was rooting for the stupid Mets when I could have been rooting for guys like Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi and Alex Rodriguez. How many World Series have the Yankees won in a row now anyway? I have to look that up.

How many points do you think the Cowboys win by in Super Bowl XLI? This is great. My first season as a Cowboys fan where I know that we are going to win the Super Bowl. Thanks Terrell Owens. Those stupid Eagles. If they would have only just done whatever he wanted they could have kept winning Super Bowls one after another.

Let me just say one more time, thank you Bill and Jerry. I now have my head on straight. Sports are only about winning and losing. A guy like Dan Campbell busts his *** for the team 24 hours a day 7 days a week, but the Cowboys don't win the Super Bowl so he's gotta hit the road. Bring in more guys like my man TO. So what if he's going to be on ESPN by Week 5 talking about how Drew Bledsoe waits too long in the pocket and how the offensive philosophy isn't using his talents properly.

Terrell Owens is going to bring the sixth Vince Lombardi Trophy to the Dallas Cowboys, and that's a guarantee folks!

Thank you, I'm here all week.​

Question....did you cheer for Michael Irvin?

Moral wise, he's worse than TO.
TO is an arse and socially inept but he's better than Irvin.

 

[lurkercowboy]

I am sure we all know about the back-stabbing, complaining, pettiness and other bad behavior that happens down at the local "fill-in-the-blank" office. Guys/gals calling a co-worker gay? People complaining about their salary? Have any of you ever worked in a restaurant, for example? This is everyday stuff, not murder or evil acts.

This stuff happens all the time in the real world, in businesses big and small. The NFL is just a big business. It is not about sportsmanship, building character, and physical fitness like youth and school sports. The best character guy in the world would not have made Landry's football teams, or Lombardi's, if they could not play the game. And only a few talented people in the world have the ability to play the game to that level.

Now of course the NFL has tried, successfully for many years, to market the best players as larger than life admirable heroes. Like the good guys in pro wrestling. That has always been far from the truth. When they are on the field, they are entertainment just like actors in a TV show or performers on a stage. Off the field, they are just people. Athletically elite people, but still people. Every fan wants their team to be the "good guys" in a mythical battle of good vs evil, but the NFL is not a morality play. After all, the fact that the Skins and 49ers have won Super Bowls is proof of that.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Question....did you cheer for Michael Irvin?

Moral wise, he's worse than TO.
TO is an arse and socially inept but he's better than Irvin.

Before we signed TO, I was sort of neutral about the TO signing.

If we signed him, fine ... if we didn't, fine.

But since the signing, I don't feel ANYWAY CLOSE to the sickness I felt with the embarassment & grief Irvin and his thugs brought in the late 90's.

Not even close.

I will save my judgement until when or if TO hurts the Cowboys.

He hasn't yet.

 

[Kittymama]

DCfanatic--First, I'll start by saying I'm disappointed you took down Parcellsguys.com. I did enjoy reading it.

BUT--with all due respect, were you a fan of the team when Irvin played? Haley? Did you agree that Irvin should have been inducted into the Ring of Honor? You're talking a drug-abusing, prostitute-using, adulterer. That doesn't really spell character to me. (Should I point out he recently got stopped with drugs again?) And I doubt he was the only one on the team who behaved that way. Haley was widely regarded as a team cancer before he came to Dallas. Did you support the team when Barry Switzer (an adulterer who slept with the wife of one of his own assistants) coached & won a Super Bowl? How about when Jerruh drafted a player (can't remember the name now) from one of the military academies--& then tried to get him out of having to fulfill his military duty? I think TO is a complete jerk with a big mouth but he's never committed a criminal act. To be completely cold, players from the teams you're idolizing DID commit crimes (drugs, drunk driving, etc.).

I also have a (male) friend who dated a Cowboys player for many years--he even sat in the stands with the players' wives (during the Landry years). Doesn't bother me, but a lot of people wouldn't like that.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion (& I'll say that I'm no fan of TO--he needs to shut up & play as far as I'm concerned), but let's not pretend that ANY team of any era was made up entirely of choirboys. Landry certainly overlooked his share of miscreants ("North Dallas Forty" is a not so thinly disguised view of the Cowboys during that era), Jimmy Johnson at U. of Miami started the trend of that team being a thug team--& continued it with the Boys, Parcells looked the other way for guys like LT, Gibbs makes all kinds of excuses for Sean Taylor, heck even St. Belichick & the Pats were willing to wink at Ty Law's dustup with police a few years ago when they needed him for another Super Bowl win.

HOWEVER, this current team also has guys like Drew Bledsoe, Jason Witten, Roy Williams, Rob Petitti (& his dad, who we sorely miss on the board), Julius Jones, & a lot of other guys who are great character guys, solid citizens, & very humble. All of them were also picked by Jerruh (& most by Parcells). Sometimes you also have to hold your nose & take a chance with not-so-character guys. (How many people here wanted Chavous? Jim Reeves recently wrote a column saying we should get Culpeper for QB--Mr. Loveboat himself is a character guy? How many people make excuses for Michael Vick--aka Ron Mexico & his STDs? Warren Moon gets inducted into the Hall of Fame--& he beat his wife?)

 

[ravidubey]

I dunno. How is it different?

Something IS different.

The attempts to compare Owens to these guys isn't working for me...nor is it for the media...and most importantly, nor is it for the NFL...just ask the 49ers...the Eagles...and oh, another 30 or so teams...because if anyone believes there were 7 other teams going hard after Owens like his agent said, then I have a nice bridge for sale.

Juke, I think what rubs people the wrong way is that Owens' antics imply he has a selfish agenda that is outside of the game and thus belittles the game. That he is such a good and a charismatic player does more to exacerbate this feeling than make it better.

I think Owens is not enough of a planner and has little to gain from having a serious agenda and mainly flies by the seat of his pants. It marvels me to no end that people elevate him and every one of his antics to anti-christ levels.

 

[jman]

Then explain Troy Aikman, Cal Ripken and Tim Duncan to me.

Look, sports can teach a lot of things...as you know and have made us clear on that. Your post didn't go un-noticed in that respect.

But what you have to realize is that at this level, and I think Barry Switzer said it best when he was here...This is a busness. Pure and simple. He thought he shouldn't have to motivate a grown man making millions to play a game.

Now whether right or wrong, is irrelivant. You will always have the likes of a Troy Aikman, Ripken or a Duncan. Hopefully many, many more. But there will be many many more that are not like those three.

I'm no where near totally on board with the TO signing, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why he's being called everything from a child to satan himself.

All he does is speak his mind, although not at the most opertune times and not always about the right people. He hasn't raped, murdered, beat, or shot at anyone or even threated to do so. He's never been arrested...some thing all Cowboy fans know all too much about when it concern the Cowboys.

This is a good time, if you are having trouble with this and let it go for a while. Take it easy, prepare for a little draft watching, and then worry about training camp when it gets here...many months away.

You can always come back and tell us all how you knew it was wrong at the get-go. We will all know it by then too. But lets get away from the life or death reactions that are going on here. Relax.

Take it for what's it worth...no harm intended.

 

[BigDFan5]

​

​

Ummm How long has this guy been a fan? Its always been about winning, just because we as fans romantisise it into something more than a competition means nothing. Football is a business and the goal is winning.

 

[iceberg]

It marvels me to no end that people elevate him and every one of his antics to anti-christ levels.

because it's human nature that people who put themselves above "life" are to be brought down to it and learn humility. TO has NO humility and therefor that means many truely feel TO thinks he's better than "mankind". what do we do? we pay him millions to reinforce it so we can win a "game" and show people they can put themselves above "decency" and still be rewarded very heavily.

it doesn't amaze me at all. what again amazes me are the amount of cowboy fans who just last year HATED the man and ridiculed all he did are now finding any excuse in the world to do a 180 on their own "ideals".

 

[WV Cowboy]

because it's human nature that people who put themselves above "life" are to be brought down to it and learn humility. TO has NO humility and therefor that means many truely feel TO thinks he's better than "mankind". what do we do? we pay him millions to reinforce it so we can win a "game" and show people they can put themselves above "decency" and still be rewarded very heavily.

it doesn't amaze me at all. what again amazes me are the amount of cowboy fans who just last year HATED the man and ridiculed all he did are now finding any excuse in the world to do a 180 on their own "ideals".

I recently saw TO on "Punk'ed", where he was in a car that came upon a terrible wreck involving a Sr. Citizens van.
A lot of people appeared hurt around the van.

A girl who claimed to be a nurse asked him to help her get the elderly folks away from the van in case it might blow up.

He got out of the car he was riding in, went over and humbly did exactly what he was asked to do, ... helped several old people, who were "acting" injured, away from the van one at a time.

When the "fake" cops came and told him he was a hero, he humbly said, "I'm no hero."

That was a side of TO many don't see.

That was a side of TO that the media won't spend much time portraying.

The guy acts pretty stupid at times, but just like Randy Moss, most of it is childish and sophmoric, but the media likes to jump on it and calls him names like Lucifer.

He acted selfish and childish in Philly, but that episode showed me the Eagles had weak leadership and weak locker-room chemistry.

Many of them acted like a little school boy, ... "TO hit me at recess teacher."

 

[iceberg]

I recently saw TO on "Punk'ed", where he was in a car that came upon a terrible wreck involving a Sr. Citizens van.
A lot of people appeared hurt around the van.

A girl who claimed to be a nurse asked him to help her get the elderly folks away from the van in case it might blow up.

He got out of the car he was riding in, went over and humbly did exactly what he was asked to do, ... helped several old people, who were "acting" injured, away from the van one at a time.

When the "fake" cops came and told him he was a hero, he humbly said, "I'm no hero."

That was a side of TO many don't see.

That was a side of TO that the media won't spend much time portraying.

The guy acts pretty stupid at times, but just like Randy Moss, most of it is childish and sophmoric, but the media likes to jump on it and calls him names like Lucifer.

He acted selfish and childish in Philly, but that episode showed me the Eagles had weak leadership and weak locker-room chemistry.

Many of them acted like a little school boy, ... "TO hit me at recess teacher."

that is a side of TO i wish we could all see, WV. i appreciate you letting me know.

 

[royhitshard]

​

For the longest time I was a sports fool. I was totally misinterpreting sports. When the Dallas Cowboys signed Terrell Owens it finally clicked in my head. Sports are about winning and losing, nothing more and nothing less.

There are no lessons taught in sports. People should not tell their kids to play sports for any other reason than to compete in a game and win. There should not be any sort of 'sportsmanship', that's just some word a guy made up. Winning should be the primary focus when your playing a match, contest or game.

The humans who put the uniforms on are no longer people either. They become objects once the shoes are laced up and the chin strap is snapped into place. There are no feelings of friendship or camaraderie between those men out there and surely they don't care if one another gets hurt as long as their team wins.

I wonder how many Cowboy fans were also taught this valuable lesson by these two men last Saturday? Maybe hundreds of 1000's. There are probably some who are even still thinking of sports the old fashion way.

Those days are long gone for me. The days of thinking that I wanted to root for a guy like Troy Aikman because he was a good role model for kids and respected his teammates. I was rooting for him for all the wrong reasons in the early 90's. Thank god he was also winning football games or people would have looked at me like I had two heads.

Enough talk about that bum anyway, he's not helping the Cowboys win games anymore so what do I care about him. Terrell Owens is the guy I want my kids looking up to now. Maybe one day my little guy can sign a multimillion dollar contract in the NFL. Then when he decides that he didn't read the fine print he can just rip his teammates football skills apart on ESPN and they will let him go. Then it's off to another team where he can get an even better contract. Boy, I sure hope Jerry Jones still owns the Cowboys in 20 years.

Have you guys heard the new rap song by my man TO. He's changed the game folks. He showed the other players that if you don't like your contract then just do what he did. This is great, maybe all those other players will be on the Cowboys too. Imagine it now. The Cowboys could win the next twelve Super Bowls.

Coach Parcells is one tricky guy too. I didn't understand his philosophy at first. When he said 'no more thugs" I didn't catch on that it only meant he didn't want any thugs unless it helped him win the football games. TO isn't a thug in the sense of the word that he carries a gun or does drugs, but that's just because his mouth is his weapon and his ego gets him high. He's more of the 'Au Natural Thug'.

I'm kinda glad I learned this lesson right now too because baseball season is here. For the longest time I have been a Mets fan. Not any more. Let's go Yanks. It's obvious they are trying harder and want to win more than the Mets because they spend more money on players. I feel stupid for not rooting for them over the past few years. I was rooting for the stupid Mets when I could have been rooting for guys like Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi and Alex Rodriguez. How many World Series have the Yankees won in a row now anyway? I have to look that up.

How many points do you think the Cowboys win by in Super Bowl XLI? This is great. My first season as a Cowboys fan where I know that we are going to win the Super Bowl. Thanks Terrell Owens. Those stupid Eagles. If they would have only just done whatever he wanted they could have kept winning Super Bowls one after another.

Let me just say one more time, thank you Bill and Jerry. I now have my head on straight. Sports are only about winning and losing. A guy like Dan Campbell busts his *** for the team 24 hours a day 7 days a week, but the Cowboys don't win the Super Bowl so he's gotta hit the road. Bring in more guys like my man TO. So what if he's going to be on ESPN by Week 5 talking about how Drew Bledsoe waits too long in the pocket and how the offensive philosophy isn't using his talents properly.

Terrell Owens is going to bring the sixth Vince Lombardi Trophy to the Dallas Cowboys, and that's a guarantee folks!

Thank you, I'm here all week.​

Where have you been? Second place always has been and always will be the first loser!

 

[Dale]

.. and you just figured this out?

Professional sports is big business and big businesses exist to make money. In professional sports, winning means success and losing means failure.

If you're looking for sports where morality and sportsmanship are featured attributes go watch youth league games where you live.

If you want to blame something for the state of professional sports today, blame yourself. If people did not watch the games, there would be no Terrell Owens, Deion Sanders, etc. to get upset over.

-Reality

I agree, Reality. Any professional sports GM that is more focused on putting together a team full of nice guys than he is winning, is soon to be an ex-GM.

It's just the way it is at this level.

Now, I think it's a different story in high school. Some high schools are so concerned with football that it's win at all costs, but a majority of the schools that aren't churning out blue chip prospects want a guy to represent the school -- and maybe even the town -- while instilling ever-lasting messages to the young players.

After high school, though, most of that can be thrown out the window. College is mirroring the professional attitude, where "good guy" coaches are shown the door if they're not winning 9+ games every year.

My feeling on looking "up" to professional athletes is this. Some are worth looking up to, others aren't. But there is no correlation between talent and character in this league, and that's where parents have to watch out.

Now, is a guy like Peyton Manning worth looking up to? Sure. How about Drew Bledsoe? Absolutely. But Owens? Shockey? Possibly not, but even they aren't bad people off the field.

But it's this way in every walk of life. There are plenty of firemen, teachers, police officers and preachers that aren't worth looking up to. You have to be selective in every walk of life, and can't look up to individuals as people solely because they're good at what they do. It's a tough task for children to master, but parents have to be there to help push them in the right direction, even though it's ultimately the child's discretion who he will look to emulate.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Juke said.

dunno. How is it different?

Something IS different.

The attempts to compare Owens to these guys isn't working for me...nor is it for the media...and most importantly, nor is it for the NFL...just ask the 49ers...the Eagles...and oh, another 30 or so teams...because if anyone believes there were 7 other teams going hard after Owens like his agent said, then I have a nice bridge for sale.

Juke I have sold that bridge three times already. Funny what some believe.

 

[WV Cowboy]

But it's this way in every walk of life. There are plenty of firemen, teachers, police officers and preachers that aren't worth looking up to. You have to be selective in every walk of life, and can't look up to individuals as people solely because they're good at what they do. It's a tough task for children to master, but parents have to be there to help push them in the right direction, even though it's ultimately the child's discretion who he will look to emulate.

Man, that's good stuff !

 

[Dale]

WV makes a great point. Someone like Terrell Owens really isn't a bad guy to look up off the field. He cares about family, God, and is a no-nonsense guy that doesn't get in trouble.

It's his attitude on the field that parents probably don't want their children emulating.

My opinion is that when we must applaud professional athletes who take on the responsibility to be role models. Guys like Troy Aikman and Drew Bledsoe have been terrific at this over the years, IMO. They see playing football as being more than just about themselves.

But, I don't necessarily think we should condemn those players who are just there to play, have fun and make some money. It's not their job to be role models...and, frankly, some of these guys aren't worth looking up to. But this is what makes those who DO take on that additional responsibility all the more special, IMO.