Bill and Jerry Have Enlightened Me

[tyke1doe]

The problem with many if not most people is that they take and either-or approach to life.

Either football is about making money or it's about being role models.

It's not either-or, it's both.

Second problem people make: making moral equivalency arguments or which morality is worse arguments without understanding context.


Michael Irvin doing drugs is worse than TO's juvenile behavior, if morality has a connection with legality.

But TO criticizing his teammates and creating discord in the locker room is worse than Irvin doing drugs on his own free time.

Remember, context is key.

Example 2: thinking about adultery and committing adultery are both sins, according to the Bible.

But committing adultery is far worse than thinking about it.

Please, people, life is all about context. Remember this when you attempt to draw moral equivalency arguments between Irvin and TO.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

The problem with many if not most people is that they take and either-or approach to life.

Either football is about making money or it's about being role models.

It's not either-or, it's both.

Second problem people make: making moral equivalency arguments or which morality is worse arguments without understanding context.


Michael Irvin doing drugs is worse than TO's juvenile behavior, if morality has a connection with legality.

But TO criticizing his teammates and creating discord in the locker room is worse than Irvin doing drugs on his own free time.

Remember, context is key.

Example 2: thinking about adultery and committing adultery are both sins, according to the Bible.

But committing adultery is far worse than thinking about it.

Please, people, life is all about context. Remember this when you attempt to draw moral equivalency arguments between Irvin and TO.

Im doomed.

 

[iceberg]

The problem with many if not most people is that they take and either-or approach to life.

Either football is about making money or it's about being role models.

It's not either-or, it's both.

Second problem people make: making moral equivalency arguments or which morality is worse arguments without understanding context.


Michael Irvin doing drugs is worse than TO's juvenile behavior, if morality has a connection with legality.

But TO criticizing his teammates and creating discord in the locker room is worse than Irvin doing drugs on his own free time.

Remember, context is key.

Example 2: thinking about adultery and committing adultery are both sins, according to the Bible.

But committing adultery is far worse than thinking about it.

Please, people, life is all about context. Remember this when you attempt to draw moral equivalency arguments between Irvin and TO.

just out of curiosity - did you go to such lengths to defend TO over the years or only since he became a cowboy?

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

As was mentioned...you arenot telling us anyuthing nenw. Did you JUST figure this out?

When basebal walked/locked several years ago...I know it was "just business" and lost my enthusiasm for "America's Game".


When The NFL put the clamps on the 90's Cowboys, and nearly any chance of future dynasties (damn them Pats), with FA and salary cap...I knew it was just business....and they have effectively dampened year to year, consistant fan loyalty.

I am not too happy about TO, but I can either chose to be a Dallas Cowboys fan....or not. I can choose to be an NFL fan, or not.

It's your choice as well.

 

[sacase]

Does anyone here know TO? Anyone? Hmmm...no hands raised...well it is safe to say that since no one here knows him personally how can we call him a bad guy and say he has no moral? Oh let me see....he celebrates TD's...naw not a bad moral thing.....hmm he wants to be paid like he deserves....who wouldn't. Didn't get along with McNabb....Does everyone have to like everyone else? From what I have heard about him from people that actually know him he is a prety good guy. I haven't heard on person who personally knows him say he is a bad guy. But I could be wrong.

You can't judge him by what you see on TV. Here is the biggest reason. Professional sports is ENTERTAINMENT. TO has figured out that CONTROVERSEY sells. So what you are seeing is an image of him that is not exactly true. He is marketing himself. His work ethic in the weight room and on the field is second to none. THat is what Parcells see. A player who will work hard and bust his butt to win games. Jerry sees this as a no loose situtuation. He is bringing a guy in who is VERY marketable and who has AMAZING talent. TO generates publicity....TO on Dallas gets DAllas more publicity.....which generates more sales...TO on the field will help the Cowboys win more games....which in turn generates more publicity and more money. Great business plan. I would wager TO is a pretty ethical and moral guy. I don't even think he has any kids. Take a step back and remember we are watchin entertainment. The ultimate in reality TV. When the day is done I think TO is a pretty quiet and humble guy.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Does anyone here know TO? Anyone? Hmmm...no hands raised...well it is safe to say that since no one here knows him personally how can we call him a bad guy and say he has no moral? Oh let me see....he celebrates TD's...naw not a bad moral thing.....hmm he wants to be paid like he deserves....who wouldn't. Didn't get along with McNabb....Does everyone have to like everyone else? From what I have heard about him from people that actually know him he is a prety good guy. I haven't heard on person who personally knows him say he is a bad guy. But I could be wrong.

You can't judge him by what you see on TV. Here is the biggest reason. Professional sports is ENTERTAINMENT. TO has figured out that CONTROVERSEY sells. So what you are seeing is an image of him that is not exactly true. He is marketing himself. His work ethic in the weight room and on the field is second to none. THat is what Parcells see. A player who will work hard and bust his butt to win games. Jerry sees this as a no loose situtuation. He is bringing a guy in who is VERY marketable and who has AMAZING talent. TO generates publicity....TO on Dallas gets DAllas more publicity.....which generates more sales...TO on the field will help the Cowboys win more games....which in turn generates more publicity and more money. Great business plan. I would wager TO is a pretty ethical and moral guy. I don't even think he has any kids. Take a step back and remember we are watchin entertainment. The ultimate in reality TV. When the day is done I think TO is a pretty quiet and humble guy.

I dont know charels manson either, but I'm pretty sure I wouldnt like him.

 

[billknows]

 

[jterrell]

Ya know I really want to be even-keeled and not insult anyone directly or indirectly but it's a challenge with this particular issue.

I think there is an element of self-rightouesness in thinking TO is somehow an unique example of winning over character.

Seriously, do these Cowboy fans making that argument not remember Jerry buying Everett McIver's silence after Irvin cut him? Or signing Deion who was clearly the league's greatest self-promoter and mercenary? Or any number of players we drafted with criminal histories? Can we not now cheer Emmitt since he insulted the Boys after we released him? Do we give back those 3 Super Bowl trophies now that we know Step and Tui were using drugs as well as Irvin, Alfrdo Roberts and however other temamates?

The real irony in all this is that now TO disparaging teammates and coaches to the media is WORSE and more offensive than those folks committing real crimes. What lesson exactly does THAT send to kids?

This is entertainment. You don't tell your kids to follow the "morality" of movie stars who marry every other week or musicians who abuse drugs or any other form of entertainer. Raise your kids based on your own morals and beliefs. Step 1 is teaching them entertainment is not real life.

 

[gbrittain]

What was is Vince Lombardi said about winning???

If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

VINCE LOMBARDI

 

[jterrell]

The problem with many if not most people is that they take and either-or approach to life.

Either football is about making money or it's about being role models.

It's not either-or, it's both.

Second problem people make: making moral equivalency arguments or which morality is worse arguments without understanding context.


Michael Irvin doing drugs is worse than TO's juvenile behavior, if morality has a connection with legality.

But TO criticizing his teammates and creating discord in the locker room is worse than Irvin doing drugs on his own free time.

Remember, context is key.

Example 2: thinking about adultery and committing adultery are both sins, according to the Bible.

But committing adultery is far worse than thinking about it.

Please, people, life is all about context. Remember this when you attempt to draw moral equivalency arguments between Irvin and TO.

I would argue the real problem is folks think their own ideal of morality can apply to others, when in fact it does not.

Its kinda simple really. No one is making anyone cheer TO or buy his jersey. Those that want to have every right to without persecution from anyone.

If anyone really wants to compare TO's morals to those of many former Cowboys I feel deeply saddened for them.

I am not a fan of TO by any means but when lines up and gives his all to this team to win games he will have my support. Same as many former Cowboys who are far from role models or great citizens.

 

[Juke99]

Ya know I really want to be even-keeled and not insult anyone directly or indirectly but it's a challenge with this particular issue.

I think there is an element of self-rightouesness in thinking TO is somehow an unique example of winning over character.

Seriously, do these Cowboy fans making that argument not remember Jerry buying Everett McIver's silence after Irvin cut him? Or signing Deion who was clearly the league's greatest self-promoter and mercenary? Or any number of players we drafted with criminal histories? Can we not now cheer Emmitt since he insulted the Boys after we released him? Do we give back those 3 Super Bowl trophies now that we know Step and Tui were using drugs as well as Irvin, Alfrdo Roberts and however other temamates?

The real irony in all this is that now TO disparaging teammates and coaches to the media is WORSE and more offensive than those folks committing real crimes. What lesson exactly does THAT send to kids?

This is entertainment. You don't tell your kids to follow the "morality" of movie stars who marry every other week or musicians who abuse drugs or any other form of entertainer. Raise your kids based on your own morals and beliefs. Step 1 is teaching them entertainment is not real life.

Hey jt...

OK...so what's your theory because Owens is clearly being seen as different (worse) by most media members...many fans...and even a bunch of NFL teams.

 

[Alexander]

This is entertainment. You don't tell your kids to follow the "morality" of movie stars who marry every other week or musicians who abuse drugs or any other form of entertainer. Raise your kids based on your own morals and beliefs. Step 1 is teaching them entertainment is not real life.

Bravo. Well done.

In other words, quit whining.

Be a parent to your children.

Our society loves to blame external sources for everything.

It starts and ends in your home. Stop the endless whining about this and that. If you are weak or don't care, then yes: Terrell Owens can corrupt your child.

 

[tyke1doe]

just out of curiosity - did you go to such lengths to defend TO over the years or only since he became a cowboy?

I'm one of those who didn't want the Cowboys to sign TO.

 

[tyke1doe]

Bravo. Well done.

In other words, quit whining.

Be a parent to your children.

Our society loves to blame external sources for everything.

It starts and ends in your home. Stop the endless whining about this and that. If you are weak or don't care, then yes: Terrell Owens can corrupt your child.

Would to God this were true. Unfortunately, it isn't.

 

[tyke1doe]

What was is Vince Lombardi said about winning???

If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.

VINCE LOMBARDI

Of course, you know even with simple statements, those have to been interpreted within a context.

I'm sure Lombardi wasn't suggesting that the Packers staff should spike the drinks of their opponents to give them an edge in winning?

I understand your point. But let's use a bit of common sense. Winning is everything when you play within the rules. If you don't, it's not winning, it's cheating even though the score board may have you ahead.

 

[jeff]

This is the same owner who dropped kicked Tom Landry to the curb. But, that was cool when we started winning Superbowls. Same guy who cut Emmit or LA when they slowed down. So, this isn't anything new to Jerry or the NFL or (unfortunately) the way the world (specifically capitalism) works.

No doubt, TO has some personal issues and has a huge ego. But, I can't help but think he got villified by the press some last year too. I don't like the fact that he's now a Cowboy. But, I'll probably cheer for him anyway. In the end, it's only a game. It's meant to be fun, not a moral standard.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Reading the posts of Reality and others just shows why so many Cowboys fans are actually excited about us singing Owens. They couldn't care less about a player's character so long as he helps us win games. That is a totally foreign concept to me and used to be for the Cowboys.

The hypocricy from Parcells in particular but Jerry as well is overwhelming! Bill was adamant about not wanting to deal with troublemakers or guys who weren't going to put the team first yet he is supposedly completely on board with the Owens signing. Wait, that doesn't compute Bill.

Just goes to show that in this culture w.inning isn't everything, it's the ONLY thing. No wonder we are going down the tubes

Henderson and Septien say hello. Irvin and Harper offer you a toast. And you want to talk of hypocrisy.

Just because NFL Films gave us a moniker didnt make it true.

Bottomline is that character only matters when youre losing.

 

[jterrell]

Hey jt...

OK...so what's your theory because Owens is clearly being seen as different (worse) by most media members...many fans...and even a bunch of NFL teams.

I have no issue at all with folks thinking he isn't a good signing for football reasons. I tend to disagree because I think circumstances here with BP and a QB on his last seaosn or so make it ideal BUT I understand the logic and concern.

HOWEVER, its the whining about the type of guy and calling him a devil I take serious issue with.

The guy is a jerk but that doesn't make him any different from a number of other Cowboys.

Is he going to surpass Roger Staubach as my fave Cowboy? NEVER.
Is he going to be similar to Deion? I think so. He's just a hired gun who can help us win. He's not likely to break any laws or committ any aggregious acts because he hasn't yet. He might cuss out Bledsoe and Parcells but they are big boys and should be able to deal.

 

[jrumann59]

​

For the longest time I was a sports fool. I was totally misinterpreting sports. When the Dallas Cowboys signed Terrell Owens it finally clicked in my head. Sports are about winning and losing, nothing more and nothing less.

There are no lessons taught in sports. People should not tell their kids to play sports for any other reason than to compete in a game and win. There should not be any sort of 'sportsmanship', that's just some word a guy made up. Winning should be the primary focus when your playing a match, contest or game.

The humans who put the uniforms on are no longer people either. They become objects once the shoes are laced up and the chin strap is snapped into place. There are no feelings of friendship or camaraderie between those men out there and surely they don't care if one another gets hurt as long as their team wins.

I wonder how many Cowboy fans were also taught this valuable lesson by these two men last Saturday? Maybe hundreds of 1000's. There are probably some who are even still thinking of sports the old fashion way.

Those days are long gone for me. The days of thinking that I wanted to root for a guy like Troy Aikman because he was a good role model for kids and respected his teammates. I was rooting for him for all the wrong reasons in the early 90's. Thank god he was also winning football games or people would have looked at me like I had two heads.

Enough talk about that bum anyway, he's not helping the Cowboys win games anymore so what do I care about him. Terrell Owens is the guy I want my kids looking up to now. Maybe one day my little guy can sign a multimillion dollar contract in the NFL. Then when he decides that he didn't read the fine print he can just rip his teammates football skills apart on ESPN and they will let him go. Then it's off to another team where he can get an even better contract. Boy, I sure hope Jerry Jones still owns the Cowboys in 20 years.

Have you guys heard the new rap song by my man TO. He's changed the game folks. He showed the other players that if you don't like your contract then just do what he did. This is great, maybe all those other players will be on the Cowboys too. Imagine it now. The Cowboys could win the next twelve Super Bowls.

Coach Parcells is one tricky guy too. I didn't understand his philosophy at first. When he said 'no more thugs" I didn't catch on that it only meant he didn't want any thugs unless it helped him win the football games. TO isn't a thug in the sense of the word that he carries a gun or does drugs, but that's just because his mouth is his weapon and his ego gets him high. He's more of the 'Au Natural Thug'.

I'm kinda glad I learned this lesson right now too because baseball season is here. For the longest time I have been a Mets fan. Not any more. Let's go Yanks. It's obvious they are trying harder and want to win more than the Mets because they spend more money on players. I feel stupid for not rooting for them over the past few years. I was rooting for the stupid Mets when I could have been rooting for guys like Gary Sheffield, Jason Giambi and Alex Rodriguez. How many World Series have the Yankees won in a row now anyway? I have to look that up.

How many points do you think the Cowboys win by in Super Bowl XLI? This is great. My first season as a Cowboys fan where I know that we are going to win the Super Bowl. Thanks Terrell Owens. Those stupid Eagles. If they would have only just done whatever he wanted they could have kept winning Super Bowls one after another.

Let me just say one more time, thank you Bill and Jerry. I now have my head on straight. Sports are only about winning and losing. A guy like Dan Campbell busts his *** for the team 24 hours a day 7 days a week, but the Cowboys don't win the Super Bowl so he's gotta hit the road. Bring in more guys like my man TO. So what if he's going to be on ESPN by Week 5 talking about how Drew Bledsoe waits too long in the pocket and how the offensive philosophy isn't using his talents properly.

Terrell Owens is going to bring the sixth Vince Lombardi Trophy to the Dallas Cowboys, and that's a guarantee folks!

Thank you, I'm here all week.
​

While TO is a ****** he does for the MOST part behave himself on the field. Yeah he is little flashy and little crass but he is not that much more crass then irvin was. The NFL is a business wins land losses and playoff appearances are a franchises "Stock Index" so I cannot fault a business man for making a business decision that has little risk and huge upside.

 

[Bullet22]

when you are a kid it is about sportsmanship and trying you best..but when there is millions of dollars involved, it is a business, and it is about winning..