Bill Belicheat wins Coach of the Year

[Maikeru-sama]

no one is saying games are fixed. but, when it comes down to it, maybe refs could be unconsciously persuaded (through media, NFL hype, etc) during ambiguous/close plays to favor the Pats...give them the benefit of the doubt, especially when it matters.

C'mon VietCowboy, you don't even believe that .

 

[TheCount]

They already took away their potential 32nd pick in the draft, instead of their highest pick (while still providing them an out if they missed the playoffs), what more do you expect the governing body of the NFL, in charge of keeping the integrity of the game in check, to do?!?

... wait, did that guy just tackle someone by their collar?!? ARREST THAT MAN!

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I am in the minority but I think the guy deserved.

I dislike the Patriots but Belichick did a really good job keeping his team focused week after week among constant distractions and teams giving them their best shot week after week.

If your team goes undefeated, you should win COTY.

I hear ya but.... a timely timeout in Baltimore game and FRESH new set of downs at the right time at the end of games helped them stay undefeated.

This will not finish the way the Pats want it to.

 

[TheCount]

I hear ya but.... a timely timeout in Baltimore game and FRESH new set of downs at the right time at the end of games helped them stay undefeated.

This will not finish the way the Pats want it to.

They DID get like 8 chances to win the game against the Ravens. Hell, I could have thrown a TD given 8 chances.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hear ya but.... a timely timeout in Baltimore game and FRESH new set of downs at the right time at the end of games helped them stay undefeated.

This will not finish the way the Pats want it to.

That timeout was called by the Ravens, blame them. You could see the coach on the sideline running up behind the ref hollering timeout and they gave it to the Ravens how is that the fault of the Pats or the Refs doing the Pats a favor?

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I hear ya but.... a timely timeout in Baltimore game and FRESH new set of downs at the right time at the end of games helped them stay undefeated.

This will not finish the way the Pats want it to.

So what?

It wasn't the Patriots fault that the DC for the Ravens called timeout because he didn't like the defense they were in.

This really does sound like Sour Grapes.

Don't forget, our Dallas Cowboys had every opportunity to put an end to their winning ways and we failed to do it.

I don't think anyone, including myself can realize just how freakin hard it is to go undefeated, video tapes or not.

Heck, even Jerry stated that members of the opposing teams would tell him at NFL Meetings that they knew our plays, but the only probably is that they couldn't stop it.

I hate the Patriots like everyone else but they are the team to beat and they went 16-0.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

That timeout was called by the Ravens, blame them. You could see the coach on the sideline running up behind the ref hollering timeout and they gave it to the Ravens how is that the fault of the Pats or the Refs doing the Pats a favor?

Good Morning Doom!

Yes, I know who called the timeout. What does that have to do with anything?

I never said it was the fault of the Patriots. I said it was a timely timeout.... and they benefited.

 

[Doomsday101]

Good Morning Doom!

Yes, I know who called the timeout. What does that have to do with anything?

I never said it was the fault of the Patriots. I said it was a timely timeout.... and they benefited.

Just seem like part of the gripe session of how the refs somehow favor the Pats.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

So what?

It wasn't the Patriots fault that the DC for the Ravens called timeout because he didn't like the defense they were in.

This really does sound like Sour Grapes.

Don't forget, our Dallas Cowboys had every opportunity to put an end to their winning ways and we failed to do it.

I don't think anyone, including myself can realize just how freakin hard it is to go undefeated, video tapes or not.

Heck, even Jerry stated that members of the opposing teams would tell him at NFL Meetings that they knew our plays, but the only probably is that they couldn't stop it.

I hate the Patriots like everyone else but they are the team to beat and they went 16-0.

No sour grapes here.
Spygate should not be forgotten.

We are such a media driven society that... because the media has dropped... so have most people. Its the way of things.

If reporters had any balls they would have asked him right after they won the 16th game... "do you think that this will be tarnished because of your cheating"?

Instead... he is up there... happy and cracking jokes.... laughing at YOU... and ME.... and everyone.

I am a Cowboys fans... dont care about the Pats. Its the integrity of the game in the NFL that is changing and suspicious at times.

Oh.... you didnt score with the first set of downs.. FLAG... he are a fresh new set of downs.

Sad.

 

[Doomsday101]

No sour grapes here.
Spygate should not be forgotten.

We are such a media driven society that... because the media has dropped... so have most people. Its the way of things.

If reporters had any balls they would have asked him right after they won the 16th game... "do you think that this will be tarnished because of your cheating"?

Instead... he is up there... happy and cracking jokes.... laughing at YOU... and ME.... and everyone.

I am a Cowboys fans... dont care about the Pats. Its the integrity of the game in the NFL that is changing and suspicious at times.

Oh.... you didnt score with the first set of downs.. FLAG... he are a fresh new set of downs.

Sad.

I just want to know how did filming the Jets in week 1 of the season help the Pats go 16-0. Did they gain that much of an advantage over the rest of the NFL because of the info they got off the Jets?

 

[SultanOfSix]

So what?

It wasn't the Patriots fault that the DC for the Ravens called timeout because he didn't like the defense they were in.

But, it is the refs fault that they accepted the time-out.

Only the head coach can call a timeout from the sideline. I listened to Mike Pereira (?) when going over the call on his reasoning for accepting the timeout, and I was once againt left unconvinced other than this was just another call that went in favor of the Pats because the refs accepted the time-out AFTER the Pats were stuffed.

You've heard several players from different teams this year complain about the reffing the Pats have been getting despite knowing they would get fined, and it's not just because they don't like them.

 

[Doomsday101]

But, it is the refs fault that they accepted the time-out.

Only the head coach can call a timeout from the sideline. I listened to Mike Pereira (?) when going over the call on his reasoning for accepting the timeout, and I was less than convinced other than this was just another call that went in favor of the Pats because they accepted the time-out AFTER they were stuffed.

How is the ref to know that it was the assistant coach and not the head coach. If he is looking at the sidelines to see who is calling it then he is not watching the play that is about to happen. They called for it and got it, only ones who should take the blame is the coaching staff of the Ravens. I guess the NFL could take some blame for allowing the coaches to even call the timeouts.

 

[VietCowboy]

maybe i'm just bitter why TO almost always never get close calls that goes for the Cowboys, but Moss gets the benefit of the doubt when it is close. Maybe Brady get's .5 seconds after the play clock goes to 0 to call a TO while Ware gets called offside for being sharp and getting off the line as the ball is being snapped. I'm not saying that that will happen again, but in this day and age, when the media and NFL hype up the Pats, it could UNCONSCIOUSLY (ergo, not doing it with intent) make calls in favor of the pats.

and yes, i do believe that. only because I've seen studies that have shown refs can be influenced subconsciously, such as color, that it isn't a far stretch to see them being influenced by hype (or that the Pats are better than their opponents, ergo increase the perception that they deserve the benefit of the doubt like wearing black increases perception of aggression). There was a study done a while back that manipulated the jersey color to black or white (same exact plays and shots, they just reversed the colors of the two teams) and as a whole, refs were more likely to see rough playing and penalties against the defense of the team that was wearing black. It's pretty interesting, if anyone wants to read it.

okay, i found the abstract of the classic study.

Frank MG, Gilovich T.Department of Psychology, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853.


Black is viewed as the color of evil and death in virtually all cultures. With this association in mind, we were interested in whether a cue as subtle as the color of a person's clothing might have a significant impact on his or her behavior. To test this possibility, we examined whether professional football and ice hockey teams that wear black uniforms are more aggressive than those that wear nonblack uniforms. An analysis of the penalty records of the National Football League and the National Hockey League indicate that teams with black uniforms in both sports ranked near the top of their leagues in penalties throughout the period of study. On those occasions when a team switched from nonblack to black uniforms, the switch was accompanied by an immediate increase in penalties. The results of two laboratory experiments indicate that this finding can be attributed to both social perception and self-perception processes--that is, to the biased judgments of referees and to the increased aggressiveness of the players themselves. Our discussion focuses on the theoretical implications of these data for an understanding of the variable, or "situated," nature of the self.

here's the important part of the results:

Recall that after watching both plays, subjects rated the overall aggressiveness and &#8220;dirtiness&#8221; of the defensive team and indicated how likely they would be to call a &#8220;tight&#8221; game in any contest in which the defensive team was one of the participants. For the referee subjects, the results were strong and consistent. Compared to their counterparts who had seen the white versions of the two plays, those who had seen the black versions rated the defensive team as significantly more aggressive (Ms = 23.3 vs. 10.0), F(1, 18) = 8.67, p < .01, and marginally more dirty (Ms = 16.1 vs. 9.2, F(1, 18) = 2.84, p < .11, and, perhaps most important, were significantly more inclined to call a tight game (Ms = 27.5 vs. 12.7), F(1, 36) = 16.47, p < .001.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

How is the ref to know that it was the assistant coach and not the head coach. If he is looking at the sidelines to see who is calling it then he is not watching the play that is about to happen. They called for it and got it, only ones who should take the blame is the coaching staff of the Ravens. I guess the NFL could take some blame for allowing the coaches to even call the timeouts.

Yep, and if the Pats would have got the 1st Down on that play and the Ravens were not awarded the Timout, people would cry foul.

 

[AbeBeta]

I am in the minority but I think the guy deserved.

I dislike the Patriots but Belichick did a really good job keeping his team focused week after week among constant distractions and teams giving them their best shot week after week.

If your team goes undefeated, you should win COTY.

Bingo.

 

[SultanOfSix]

How is the ref to know that it was the assistant coach and not the head coach. If he is looking at the sidelines to see who is calling it then he is not watching the play that is about to happen. They called for it and got it, only ones who should take the blame is the coaching staff of the Ravens. I guess the NFL could take some blame for allowing the coaches to even call the timeouts.

Umm...it's the rule. You would think that if they made a RULE that they would have the necessary steps in place to make a determination of it. You can't make a rule, and then say "whoops, we forgot how to take it into consideration, so sorry!"

The play was over, it wasn't Billick who called it, it shouldn't have been considered. Game over.

 

[VietCowboy]

Umm...it's the rule. You would think that if they made a RULE that they would have the necessary steps in place to make that determination. You can't make a rule, and then say "whoops, we forgot how to take it into consideration, so sorry!"

if they let an assistant coach call a time out, they should have let gibbs call 2 time outs in a row.

 

[AbeBeta]

maybe i'm just bitter why TO almost always never get close calls that goes for the Cowboys, but Moss gets the benefit of the doubt when it is close. Maybe Brady get's .5 seconds after the play clock goes to 0 to call a TO while Ware gets called offside for being sharp and getting off the line as the ball is being snapped. I'm not saying that that will happen again, but in this day and age, when the media and NFL hype up the Pats, it could UNCONSCIOUSLY (ergo, not doing it with intent) make calls in favor of the pats.

and yes, i do believe that. only because I've seen studies that have shown refs can be influenced subconsciously, such as color, that it isn't a far stretch to see them being influenced by hype (or that the Pats are better than their opponents, ergo increase the perception that they deserve the benefit of the doubt like wearing black increases perception of aggression). There was a study done a while back that manipulated the jersey color to black or white (same exact plays and shots, they just reversed the colors of the two teams) and as a whole, refs were more likely to see rough playing and penalties against the defense of the team that was wearing black. It's pretty interesting, if anyone wants to read it.

okay, i found the abstract of the classic study.

Frank MG, Gilovich T.Department of Psychology, Cornell University, Ithaca, New York 14853.


Black is viewed as the color of evil and death in virtually all cultures. With this association in mind, we were interested in whether a cue as subtle as the color of a person's clothing might have a significant impact on his or her behavior. To test this possibility, we examined whether professional football and ice hockey teams that wear black uniforms are more aggressive than those that wear nonblack uniforms. An analysis of the penalty records of the National Football League and the National Hockey League indicate that teams with black uniforms in both sports ranked near the top of their leagues in penalties throughout the period of study. On those occasions when a team switched from nonblack to black uniforms, the switch was accompanied by an immediate increase in penalties. The results of two laboratory experiments indicate that this finding can be attributed to both social perception and self-perception processes--that is, to the biased judgments of referees and to the increased aggressiveness of the players themselves. Our discussion focuses on the theoretical implications of these data for an understanding of the variable, or "situated," nature of the self.

here's the important part of the results:

Recall that after watching both plays, subjects rated the overall aggressiveness and “dirtiness” of the defensive team and indicated how likely they would be to call a “tight” game in any contest in which the defensive team was one of the participants. For the referee subjects, the results were strong and consistent. Compared to their counterparts who had seen the white versions of the two plays, those who had seen the black versions rated the defensive team as significantly more aggressive (Ms = 23.3 vs. 10.0), F(1, 18) = 8.67, p < .01, and marginally more dirty (Ms = 16.1 vs. 9.2, F(1, 18) = 2.84, p < .11, and, perhaps most important, were significantly more inclined to call a tight game (Ms = 27.5 vs. 12.7), F(1, 36) = 16.47, p < .001.

I think we need to step back here and distinguish between wearing black -- a cultural sign that you are the 'bad' guy -- something that was particularly prevalent in movies etc. vs. "hype"

Why would someone be influenced by the pro-Pats hype anymore than negative hype from the spygate issue or the hype surrounding any other undefeated team? If the hype argument holds water, that would suggest that we would have seen far more unbeaten teams as their momentum would produce more and more hype and more and more perception of being the "best" -- any time a team hit 10-0 or so, they should start to get the benefit of all the calls -- why would it have taken this long for someone to go undefeated if "hype" is truly that big an influence?

 

[AbeBeta]

How is the ref to know that it was the assistant coach and not the head coach. If he is looking at the sidelines to see who is calling it then he is not watching the play that is about to happen. They called for it and got it, only ones who should take the blame is the coaching staff of the Ravens. I guess the NFL could take some blame for allowing the coaches to even call the timeouts.

This "rule" is somewhat irrelevant. The refs aren't looking at the sidelines -- when a team wants a timeout you may have 3 or 4 guys trying to get the refs' attention. The ref has to make a snap decision -- once he grants the timeout that bell is rung. In most cases, the refs allow the assistants to be an extension of the HC because the last thing they want to see is a replay where the HC is screaming for a TO and they miss it. If teams have a problem with this the HC needs to tell the assistants to shut their traps as the refs are going to assume the assistant is helping the HC to get their attention.

 

[Doomsday101]

Umm...it's the rule. You would think that if they made a RULE that they would have the necessary steps in place to make a determination of it. You can't make a rule, and then say "whoops, we forgot how to take it into consideration, so sorry!"

The play was over, it wasn't Billick who called it, it shouldn't have been considered. Game over.

Your right it was Billick DC was the one who did it and that is on the Ravens. There is no way the ref is going to know if that is the DC or the HC hollering for the TO. So no the Refs did not do the Pats a favor the Ravens screwed themselves and have no one to blame but themselves.