Bitcoin. Any experts/owners?

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YosemiteSam

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Block chain and digital currency will replace money.

Bitcoin replace money? No.

Digital currency? I have cash and I have a credit / debit card. Credit and debit cards are digital versions of cash. Cash is a currency that can take digital form. So that statement doesn't make since.

That isn't what Ripple is for. Ripple a supposed a facility to convert other currencies quickly rather than the long drawn out process used now. (US dollar -> British Pound -> Euro -> Yen -> Rupee -> US Dollar, etc) Ripple is not a currency. (that's what Bitcoin is)
 

65fastback2plus2

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By all means, put your life savings into it and go take out a loan like they say 18% of cryptocurrency investors have done.

Why do you have to swing between two extremes?

Dont invest....or....collateralize everything you own and go all in on one asset.

Just tells me right there no one should listen to any of your advice as its blinded.
 

65fastback2plus2

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Digital currency? I have cash and I have a credit / debit card. Credit and debit cards are digital versions of cash. Cash is a currency that can take digital form. So that statement doesn't make since.

That isn't what Ripple is for. Ripple a supposed a facility to convert other currencies quickly rather than the long drawn out process used now. (US dollar -> British Pound -> Euro -> Yen -> Rupee -> US Dollar, etc) Ripple is not a currency. (that's what Bitcoin is)

You're trying to make my smaller statements as the full facts and then you spew this garbage.

a) Credit and debit cards and cash are NOT digital currencies. Just because transactions can be approved quickly does not mean SETTLEMENT happens quickly. True digital currencies settle quickly.
b) Ripple is a software company. XRP is a digital asset. Ripple, nor XRP are currencies.
c) Ripple and XRP are not just for converting other currencies quickly, but as a means for instantly settling transactions. Such as how Moneygram is using XRP and xRapid.

http://fortune.com/2018/01/11/ripple-moneygram-xrp-cryptocurrency-bank-transfers/

Go ahead, tell me how a top 5 money transactor in the world using xRapid is "fake, fraud, get your money out now!"

Investors liked it too...MGI was up 15% on the news.
 

65fastback2plus2

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Using xRapid...but "SELL NOW ITS FAKE!"

DTROFRmWkAAiG70.thumb.jpg.e7407ffaceb608767f6ff6a422624aac.jpg
 

Reality

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a) Credit and debit cards and cash are NOT digital currencies. Just because transactions can be approved quickly does not mean SETTLEMENT happens quickly. True digital currencies settle quickly.
I have to disagree with this. Credit and debit cards are indeed digital currency. They are not crypto-currency, but they are digital currency. Some countries in Europe, like Sweden, are already phasing out cash with the intent to go completely with digital currency. At that point, their currency is nothing but 0's and 1's which is digital data by nature.

As for the "settle quickly" comment you mentioned, credit/debit transactions are instant just like crypto-currencies. If I buy something with a debit card, the money is gone the moment I buy it. If I buy something with a credit card, my amount of available line of credit decreases immediately. The sellers in both situation have the money instantly as well. While it may not be in their bank account, it would be the same for bitcoin as they would have to transfer it to their bank account which involves a delay, in some cases of several days.

Even then, it really depends on what type of account it is. If you have a Business PayPal account and a business credit/debit card with PayPal, you sell items in an online store with PayPal as your credit card (payment) processor. The moment a customer pays you for an item, the money is in your PayPal account and you can access, withdraw or spend it immediately using your PayPal Business credit/debit card.
 

YosemiteSam

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Using xRapid...but "SELL NOW ITS FAKE!"

First off, I never said it was fake. I said it is EXTREMELY risky. If you read back, the only one I even half considered investing in was Ripple, but I certainly won't do that in this market. It's too volatile. Volatile == high risk.

Hell even great news did nothing for Ripple's price. It's back to where it started today and appears to be sliding again.
 

DoctorChicken

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First off, I never said it was fake. I said it is EXTREMELY risky. If you read back, the only one I even half considered investing in was Ripple, but I certainly won't do that in this market. It's too volatile. Volatile == high risk.

Hell even great news did nothing for Ripple's price. It's back to where it started today and appears to be sliding again.

It’s up 11% on binanace, the exchange with millions of members I use.
 

DoctorChicken

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There are some people here who really really want to see this revolutionary technology fail for some reason.
 

YosemiteSam

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a) Credit and debit cards and cash are NOT digital currencies. Just because transactions can be approved quickly does not mean SETTLEMENT happens quickly. True digital currencies settle quickly.

First off, if it's not physical currency. It's digital. When I pull out my credit card and buy something at Amazon.com. I buy it digitally.

As for settlement, I run a large online retail storefront. We currently settle nightly as that was the process for years and years. We not long ago switched to a new payment gateway and they wanted us to switch to instant settlement. ie, we authorize and the second that is approve, it instantly settles. (Just like Paypal, you do realize Paypal does this now right? It settles the second it is approved. No "nightly batch settlement" This was well before Ripple was invented)

The funny thing is I can use my US credit card using US dollars right now and buy from a British store that is selling items for British pounds. I can do this instantaneously. No waiting. :)
 

YosemiteSam

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There are some people here who really really want to see this revolutionary technology fail for some reason.

Not true. I'm a technologist. I've been working in IT since before I turned 20 years old. The difference between myself and fastback is I'm a very shrewd investor. I will not put money into something that is fundamentally unsound, because I know how quickly it can disappear.

Does that mean Ripple is going to fail? No it doesn't. Ripple could go on to be the next big thing, but the odds in that happening right now are long and therefore very risky.

This is the same reason I hardly even look at IPOs. Predicting which stock will be the next Intel or Microsoft is a crap-shoot. It's better to wait until their fundementals solidify and the show a proven track record. Sure, you don't end up buying them at $9/share. You get them at $21/share on their way to $70/share. I pay that $12/share difference to protect my investment.

When investing, your money is making you money. You must first have money for that money to make money. I have no intention on just giving it away on a wild bet.

When Ripple proves it has staying power and isn't being driven by a bunch of cons. I will then and only then consider it again.
 

65fastback2plus2

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I have to disagree with this. Credit and debit cards are indeed digital currency. They are not crypto-currency, but they are digital currency. Some countries in Europe, like Sweden, are already phasing out cash with the intent to go completely with digital currency. At that point, their currency is nothing but 0's and 1's which is digital data by nature.

As for the "settle quickly" comment you mentioned, credit/debit transactions are instant just like crypto-currencies. If I buy something with a debit card, the money is gone the moment I buy it. If I buy something with a credit card, my amount of available line of credit decreases immediately. The sellers in both situation have the money instantly as well. While it may not be in their bank account, it would be the same for bitcoin as they would have to transfer it to their bank account which involves a delay, in some cases of several days.

Even then, it really depends on what type of account it is. If you have a Business PayPal account and a business credit/debit card with PayPal, you sell items in an online store with PayPal as your credit card (payment) processor. The moment a customer pays you for an item, the money is in your PayPal account and you can access, withdraw or spend it immediately using your PayPal Business credit/debit card.

This is incorrect.

The piece of the process you are talking about is authorization.

There are 3 pieces to the process: authorization, settlement, and/or funding (sometimes funding is included in settlement).

This is why authorized transactions will show on your account online in gray as "pending".

Also, because you dont understand the payment process, you are not understanding that even though a merchant takes on the liability and makes funds available to you, doesnt mean that those funds are settled.

This part is called funds availability. For example, I can get a check, put it in my account, my bank will make it available next day. I can still in 7+ business days have the money removed from my account with a notation of "not sufficient funds". This is because when they went to SETTLE the transaction, the money wasnt there. Lets say this check is $1,000. What happens is, PNC, as a part of doing business and getting customers, agreed to front me the $1,000 for the check while the settlement process happens.

Believe it or not, physical money is still moved. This is why banks have nostro and vostro accounts which park money in deposit accounts all over the world to help increase settlement and funding times. Much quicker to have the Bank of England, for example, hold $100,000 and use it to fund my transactions as a bank, versus having to send physical money across the ocean all the time. This market is almost $30 Trillion.
 

65fastback2plus2

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heh

Ripple's XRP is exploding after announcing a partnership with MoneyGram to speed up transfers

Meanwhile.... Ripple is up less than a half a percent. (since when is less than a half of a single percent exploding?) The spike was a spike from it's already low of today. The downward trend as already begun again and the day isn't even over!

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You should learn about how pricing and percentage moves are accounted for. Just more proof you still have not a single clue of what you are talking about.
 

65fastback2plus2

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First off, I never said it was fake. I said it is EXTREMELY risky. If you read back, the only one I even half considered investing in was Ripple, but I certainly won't do that in this market. It's too volatile. Volatile == high risk.

Hell even great news did nothing for Ripple's price. It's back to where it started today and appears to be sliding again.

You should watch the market more closely. It hit $1.40's overnight and spiked to $2.70's on the news. Consolidation settled around the $2.00's which represents a 40% increase today.
 

65fastback2plus2

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First off, if it's not physical currency. It's digital. When I pull out my credit card and buy something at Amazon.com. I buy it digitally.

As for settlement, I run a large online retail storefront. We currently settle nightly as that was the process for years and years. We not long ago switched to a new payment gateway and they wanted us to switch to instant settlement. ie, we authorize and the second that is approve, it instantly settles. (Just like Paypal, you do realize Paypal does this now right? It settles the second it is approved. No "nightly batch settlement" This was well before Ripple was invented)

The funny thing is I can use my US credit card using US dollars right now and buy from a British store that is selling items for British pounds. I can do this instantaneously. No waiting. :)

Because you dont understand banking. See my response to Reality just a few posts up. Learn something.

Also, your payment provider funding you and taking on the settlement risk is not real settlement. Try again.

Also try transferring it to your bank account if they have $0 to fund it. Enjoy the notice a week or so from then about why they're taking money from you. Settlement.
 

YosemiteSam

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Clearly you have "faith" in what you're doing and what you think you know and when someone has hell bent faith, not even pure truth with hard evidence that corroborates it can change their mind. So, whatever you say dude. Have at it, my conversation with you is done.

I won't even say I told you so when time comes. :laugh::lmao::lmao2:
 

65fastback2plus2

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Clearly you have "faith" in what you're doing and what you think you know and when someone has hell bent faith, not even pure truth with hard evidence that corroborates it can change their mind. So, whatever you say dude. Have at it, my conversation with you is done.

I won't even say I told you so when time comes. :laugh::lmao::lmao2:

Noted...for the reverse ;)
 

Reality

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This is incorrect.

The piece of the process you are talking about is authorization.

There are 3 pieces to the process: authorization, settlement, and/or funding (sometimes funding is included in settlement).

This is why authorized transactions will show on your account online in gray as "pending".

Also, because you dont understand the payment process, you are not understanding that even though a merchant takes on the liability and makes funds available to you, doesnt mean that those funds are settled.
Actually, it is you that are wrong. I have been dealing with online transactions at various levels since the early days of the internet. I am VERY familiar with the entire process.

The "Authorization" process you are referring to is a choice by the merchant or the merchant processing company. There are many reasons for why a transaction may go through a multi-step process before completion or be processed immediately. For example, many companies use the authorization-first approach to allow for refunds, credits, etc. to be handled prior to the completion of the process. Some do it because they get much better rates submitting final processing in batch instead of one-by-one. Merchant processing companies will sometimes force certain types of companies to use authorization-first methods to afford them more time to validate the transaction or to prevent fraud, identify theft, etc.

If you think bitcoin and other crypto-currency item/service transactions are immune to that process you are naive. It's right up there with "bitcoin transactions are anonymous" and "my browser was in incognito/private mode so no one knows what site I went to" thinking.

As I said in my last post, with a PayPal Business Account and a PayPal Business Debit/Credit card, you have instant access to any money received. There's no delay, no pending, no "on hold" process to access the money. It's right there, immediately. If you are buying something with a credit card, debit card, etc. the money is gone immediately the moment you spend it. Whatever "processing" method or system used by the merchant and/or merchant processing company is irrelevant, because the money/credit is gone immediately.

When bitcoin is used to accept payments by companies on the internet, it goes through the exact same process that the site uses for non-bitcoin transactions. I know this because I do work for companies that accept bitcoin, though most have chosen to stop supporting it given how volatile it is now.

As @YosemiteSam pointed out, it's clear you are blinded by unquestionable faith in bitcoin so there will be no convincing you otherwise. It's the same way that cult members swear by their beliefs right up until their last breath after drinking the special juice.

As confident as I am in my beliefs, I always leave the door open to other possibilities, even if just a little, because I have found that anyone who speaks in absolutes without regard to exceptions is usually worthy of their own ignorance.

I have said that if you are willing to risk everything you invest, playing in the bitcoin and other speculation-only crypto-currency markets can be entertaining and possibly rewarding at least in the short term, but anyone investing money they can't afford to lose is foolish.
 

65fastback2plus2

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Actually, it is you that are wrong. I have been dealing with online transactions at various levels since the early days of the internet. I am VERY familiar with the entire process.

The "Authorization" process you are referring to is a choice by the merchant or the merchant processing company. There are many reasons for why a transaction may go through a multi-step process before completion or be processed immediately. For example, many companies use the authorization-first approach to allow for refunds, credits, etc. to be handled prior to the completion of the process. Some do it because they get much better rates submitting final processing in batch instead of one-by-one. Merchant processing companies will sometimes force certain types of companies to use authorization-first methods to afford them more time to validate the transaction or to prevent fraud, identify theft, etc.

If you think bitcoin and other crypto-currency item/service transactions are immune to that process you are naive. It's right up there with "bitcoin transactions are anonymous" and "my browser was in incognito/private mode so no one knows what site I went to" thinking.

As I said in my last post, with a PayPal Business Account and a PayPal Business Debit/Credit card, you have instant access to any money received. There's no delay, no pending, no "on hold" process to access the money. It's right there, immediately. If you are buying something with a credit card, debit card, etc. the money is gone immediately the moment you spend it. Whatever "processing" method or system used by the merchant and/or merchant processing company is irrelevant, because the money/credit is gone immediately.

When bitcoin is used to accept payments by companies on the internet, it goes through the exact same process that the site uses for non-bitcoin transactions. I know this because I do work for companies that accept bitcoin, though most have chosen to stop supporting it given how volatile it is now.

As @YosemiteSam pointed out, it's clear you are blinded by unquestionable faith in bitcoin so there will be no convincing you otherwise. It's the same way that cult members swear by their beliefs right up until their last breath after drinking the special juice.

As confident as I am in my beliefs, I always leave the door open to other possibilities, even if just a little, because I have found that anyone who speaks in absolutes without regard to exceptions is usually worthy of their own ignorance.

I have said that if you are willing to risk everything you invest, playing in the bitcoin and other speculation-only crypto-currency markets can be entertaining and possibly rewarding at least in the short term, but anyone investing money they can't afford to lose is foolish.

All you did was point out that you still dont understand funds settlement.

Oh well. Guess you know more than 3 of the top 5 payment processors worldwide that are using/testing with Ripple.

Guess the $27 trillion banks park in nostro and vostro accounts is purely for fun. Shoot, why park the money? They can just paypal each other instantly, according to you.
 
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