Bitcoin. Any experts/owners?

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ABQCOWBOY

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Sheldon, Lenord, Raj and Howard did it.

The Big Bang Theory is not responsible for this. They are busy, working on putting Starbucks on the Moon. They don't have time for this kind of trivial BS.

The people who are responsible for this are Rog, Dwayne, Rerun and Big Shirley.
 

DoctorChicken

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I own it. I wouldn’t consider myself an “expert” but I know a lot about it.

Bitcoin is not a bubble. IMO. A lot of investors are saying that because they don’t understand it, and don’t want it to become too valuable.

I think that the best time to invest in bitcoin was years ago when it first started off. The second best time is now.

I think 40 years from now, cryptocurrency will be a common thing.
 

BigStar

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The Big Bang Theory is not responsible for this. They are busy, working on putting Starbucks on the Moon. They don't have time for this kind of trivial BS.

The people who are responsible for this are Rog, Dwayne, Rerun and Big Shirley.
Smh...thanks for the clarification (Big Bang Theory) that reference went right over my head. Extra points for the Martin reference. Cole like him some big women :D
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Smh...thanks for the clarification (Big Bang Theory) that reference went right over my head. Extra points for the Martin reference. Cole like him some big women :D

Not a problem and actually, it's not Martin, it's "What's Happening"

These are the guys who figured out the BitCoin Bubble:

What%27s_Happening_partial_cast_1977.JPG


Left to Right:

ReRun, Raj, Big Shirley and Dwayne.
 

BigStar

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Not a problem and actually, it's not Martin, it's "What's Happening"

These are the guys who figured out the BitCoin Bubble:

What%27s_Happening_partial_cast_1977.JPG


Left to Right:

ReRun, Raj, Big Shirley and Dwayne.
Huh, they took Big Shirley from What's Happening (just realizing I wasn't really in on the Martin joke either); just taught me something there. Never really watched "What's Happening" so appreciate the info/schooling there ABQ.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Huh, they took Big Shirley from What's Happening (just realizing I wasn't really in on the Martin joke either); just taught me something there. Never really watched "What's Happening" so appreciate the info/schooling there ABQ.

Yeah, you gotta be about a hundred to have watched those, you are probably still young and good looking LOL.......

Way to rub it in!

:laugh:
 

DoctorChicken

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A Ponzi scheme that is used as electronic currency in place of standard cash and credit cards. It works now only because the bitcoin users align with the given values. At any time for whatever reason, bitcoin values could be deemed worthless bc there is no legally agreed upon value to their currency acknowledged in any country/bank/reserve; far as I know anyway. Most use it to flip the coins into real money (short and quick exchange; poker site to this app, this app to bit coin, bit coin to this app, app to your real bank account, etc.)

How is bitcoin a Ponzi scheme? It’s currency.
 

YosemiteSam

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Bitcoin is not a bubble. IMO. A lot of investors are saying that because they don’t understand it, and don’t want it to become too valuable.

Define your proof it's not a bubble. What are your facts based on? Just saying so, proof does not make.
 

DoctorChicken

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Backed by whom.... the full faith and credit of Kim Jung Un??

Why do I have to put it through 5 apps before it becomes legitimate cash..wish the US banks felt the same way you do.

What 5 apps? You can buy and sell it on Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, Bitstamp... any popular exchange for legitimate cash.

Ponzi schemes rely on secretive centrally controlled fraud. They work by disguising new investments as dividends and falsely state the investor's holdings. Bitcoin is a payment protocol that relies on an open ledger distributed to all nodes in its network.

There really is no comparison.
 

DoctorChicken

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Define your proof it's not a bubble. What are your facts based on? Just saying so, proof does not make.

Look at the art market. It's a market where an asset, in this case paint on a cotton canvas, can be worth millions of dollars. It was cheaply produced by an artist painting something, but it became worth much more after the fact and can be traded between collectors. If people value a painting at 100 million dollars, the only way the price collapses is if suddenly everyone changes their mind and think it's worth much less. But if that doesn't happen, the painting continues to be worth 100 million (unless it appreciates or depreciates according to the market).

The Bitcoin market works the same way. It's an asset, in this case an electronic currency. It was cheaply produced by Bitcoin miners, but it became worth much more after the fact and can be traded between investors. If people value a single Bitcoin at $100, then the only way the price drops and the prices drops in a bubble. If that doesn't happen, the Bitcoin price will remain steady at whatever the value is (unless it appreciates or depreciates according to the market).

Bitcoin is an asset that people invest in. A Ponzi scheme has no asset or investment. Someone takes money from the first person, then the money from the second person, and uses the money from the second person to pay the first person. There was never any investment in a business, land, currency, or other asset. That's the fundamental difference. It might be a bad investment. It might be a speculative market that's trapped in a bubble. But there is an asset there so it's not a Ponzi scheme. And if Bitcoin is a stable asset, then it probably won't drop in value, just like a painting by Picasso will always be worth something.

Cash is just paper, a diamond is just a rock, a Rolex is just a collection of steel parts, etc. All the things that are worth money are not based on the value of the actual materials. It's based on what people think of them. Bitcoin works the same way.
 

BigStar

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What 5 apps? You can buy and sell it on Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, Bitstamp... any popular exchange for legitimate cash.

Ponzi schemes rely on secretive centrally controlled fraud. They work by disguising new investments as dividends and falsely state the investor's holdings. Bitcoin is a payment protocol that relies on an open ledger distributed to all nodes in its network.

There really is no comparison.
5 apps is specific to online poker bc they don't accept them (really just 2 :)). What happens to the value of the currency if early investors all cash in at the same time?
 

Nightman

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What 5 apps? You can buy and sell it on Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, Bitstamp... any popular exchange for legitimate cash.

Ponzi schemes rely on secretive centrally controlled fraud. They work by disguising new investments as dividends and falsely state the investor's holdings. Bitcoin is a payment protocol that relies on an open ledger distributed to all nodes in its network.

There really is no comparison.
Ponzi scheme in the sense that people in early get their big money but the people in at the end get left with nothing

Nothing happened for 10 years and all of a sudden it went from 100 to 20,000 and nothing fundamentally changed......it seems like hysteria is driving the spike
 

DoctorChicken

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5 apps is specific to online poker bc they don't accept them (really just 2 :)). What happens to the value of the currency if early investors all cash in at the same time?


I don't think that would ever happen.

But, if there is a mass sell off, the price will drop as there will not be enough buyers at the current market price. The sell side will lower their price to get buyers. Eventually the market finds the equilibrium of buyer and sellers and that's the new market price.

Many of the early investor will not cash out though, because they view BTC and cryptocurrency as eventually becoming a standard method of payment. I am one of those people.

The human race used to trade fruits. Then we traded goats. Then we traded shiny lumps of metal for those goats. Then we said "this paper is worth this much", and it became worth that much. Now we're saying "this electronic coin is worth this much paper", so it's worth that much.

This isn't a new concept.
 

DoctorChicken

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Ponzi scheme in the sense that people in early get their big money but the people in at the end get left with nothing

Nothing happened for 10 years and all of a sudden it went from 100 to 20,000 and nothing fundamentally changed......it seems like hysteria is driving the spike

Who says it's going to end? And who says it's not still early? Something like 0.1% of the world's population own BTC.
 

EGTuna

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Who says it's going to end? And who says it's not still early? Something like 0.1% of the world's population own BTC.

I read, and I have no idea if it's true, that 1000 people own 40% of bitcoins. That seems problematic long term, but I don't know.
 

BigStar

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I don't think that would ever happen.

But, if there is a mass sell off, the price will drop as there will not be enough buyers at the current market price. The sell side will lower their price to get buyers. Eventually the market finds the equilibrium of buyer and sellers and that's the new market price.

Many of the early investor will not cash out though, because they view BTC and cryptocurrency as eventually becoming a standard method of payment. I am one of those people.

The human race used to trade fruits. Then we traded goats. Then we traded shiny lumps of metal for those goats. Then we said "this paper is worth this much", and it became worth that much. Now we're saying "this electronic coin is worth this much paper", so it's worth that much.

This isn't a new concept.
I think this aspect is where investors and outsiders/short term users differ; and why I used the term ponzi scheme even if more of a slang term than stealing from Peter to pay Paul, etc. I don't trust them not to, or wouldn't bet on it. Some obviously are and doing well. As a short term user, I use it as a get around but wouldn't feel comfortable putting six figures into it. If it was acknowledged outside of the internet via standard banks I would hop on. I know guys who "seem" like they can steal whatever they want online; I don't want them scoping out my savings. I know they could technically steal from the banks but face much heftier risks/charges etc.
 
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Reality

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Just my thoughts ...

1) It's a bubble .. not a sky-is-falling tin-foil hat conspiracy kind of bubble claim. It's a real bubble. It will burst at some point.

2) It's not regulated, meaning if the value disappears, you have no protection. For example, if a bitcoin exchange gets hacked and their (your) bitcoins are stolen, you're screwed. If large investors of bitcoin pull out and move to other crypto-currencies, panic will set in, demand will drop and people will frantically try to cash out before it's too late, which will ignite a bitcoin valuation free-fall.

In the stock markets, the exchanges can stop the transfers of stocks if selling becomes too erratic or quick or if there is suspicion of a mistake that is leading to the drastic change that will be corrected. They do this to protect investors from the "stampede" effect.

With bitcoin exchanges, even if some of them halt trading, not all of them will and none of that will stop wallet-based sales that will continue. Imagine watching the value of bitcoins drop every minute and your exchange won't let you sell yours!

3) There is no value of any kind in bitcoins beyond perceived (speculated) value. It's literally a "worth only as much as someone is willing to pay for it right now" asset

4) Mining bitcoins at this point is mostly pointless unless you have massive existing farming networks setup these days. Single mining servers have a lot more graphics cards, setup costs and operational costs (electricity, cooling, etc.) than normal desktop/tower computers.

.. and this is the one no talks about and no one gets ..

5) The price of bitcoin is being artificially manipulated by large investors through tactics such as "whitewashing" that are creating the perception of more demand and usage.

Think about this ..

Let's say you own a little general store that does $500,000 in gross (not net) sales per year and you want to sell your store. A normal valuation would be around $750k to $1.3 million. So, what you do is you make a deal with a "supplier" to actually buy items from you every day. Then, once a week, you order new (which is actually your previous) inventory from that supplier at the same amount you sold the items to them during the week.

That does not impact your net profit, but what it does is increase your total sales, which also increases your store's valuation. Now, your store is selling $2 million in gross sales per year and now has a valuation of between $3 million and $5.3 million. Of course any decent accountant will spot the manipulation, and more importantly, that manipulation is illegal because businesses are regulated by our local, state and federal governments.

However, with bitcoins, there is no regulation. So, what happens is that large investors are constantly selling and re-buying bitcoins over and over. This creates an artificial increase as they do it and the more large bitcoin investors/owners do this, the more the increase starts going higher more quickly, which makes every sale profitable.

They are literally making money off every sale due to their transaction volume, while normal people are playing the, "Should I sell or wait?" game.

I think crypto-currencies will eventually offer a tangible value and some are already doing this in some way. More importantly, they will become regulated, first at a country level and ultimately on a global level, which will help protect normal people from the tactics being used by large bitcoin investors/owners who would be breaking countless laws if they were doing this with regulated currencies.

6) The bubble likely won't burst because regular people panic. That's because when we have seen this happen, the large investors/owners of bitcoins reduce their selling transactions to stabilize the market, and likely start buying more for a short period.

7) If large bitcoin investors/owners ever decide to leave the bitcoin market or switch to other, newer crypto-currency markets such as Ethereum, the price of bitcoins will start to decline like an avalanche, starting slowly, but picking up steam as for-sale supply increases and demand decreases.

8) As @ABQCOWBOY said above, don't be the last one holding them.

9) Anyone who compares this to other things like gold, silver, etc. is ignoring the fact that those things have tangible value, where bitcoin does not. Gold, Silver, Copper and other metals for example are used in a large number of products and materials worldwide. There has always been and will always be demand for those metals regardless of the price.

10) I am not down on crypto-currencies as I do believe there will be digital currencies in the future that provide both a financial and tangible benefit that will stabilize its value. I just do not think bitcoin is that currency because its valuation is based completely on speculation and will always be.


Now, with all of that said .. if you have some money to risk (and it is a risk) that you want to gamble (and it is a gamble), then go have fun! Just remember two things .. 1) it's not anonymous as people make you think, and 2) you might lose everything. If you can spare the money and do not mind the risks, you may make a lot of money as long as you are not one of the last investors standing.
 
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