Bledsoe's Targets by Range Compared

[Verdict]

What 1,000 yard running back did Marino play with?

Hmm... Hmm... his name escapes me.

Who was it?

The lack of a 1000 yard back is a red herring. The fact remains that the Dolphins had a very good, borderline dominant defense for several years and the team did not take advantage of it. Tampa Bay and The Baltimore Ravens recently both won the superbowl with similar strength defenses by having a quarterback that did not lose games. Marino could win a game for you, but his decision making skills cost the FISH more than a game or two. The long ball will get you beat in a hurry and Marino loved the long ball.

 

[Doomsday101]

...if a quarterback makes bad decisions you can write off the superbowl. Ironically, many passing leaders play for bad teams and their stats are inflated because of that fact. Marino played for a pretty solid Dolphin team that should have contended, but did not. I am not bashing Marino, nor saying that he was a horrible decision maker in the mold of Quincy Carter, but I think that he was part of the reason that the Dolphins were not more of a threat to win a superbowl than they were. You have to remember, as a footnote, that Dan Marino had a good cast around him, and had better than average coaching as well.

I'm not saying the play of the QB is not important but he can only do so much and it still takes a team to win not one individual. QB's get way too much credit for wins and way too much blame for loses

 

[Verdict]

I'm not saying the play of the QB is not important but he can only do so much and it still takes a team to win not one individual. QB's get way too much credit for wins and way too much blame for loses

I agree with what you are saying. I think if Bledsoe makes good decisions we are going to be pretty salty this year.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The lack of a 1000 yard back is a red herring. The fact remains that the Dolphins had a very good, borderline dominant defense for several years and the team did not take advantage of it. Tampa Bay and The Baltimore Ravens recently both won the superbowl with similar strength defenses by having a quarterback that did not lose games. Marino could win a game for you, but his decision making skills cost the FISH more than a game or two. The long ball will get you beat in a hurry and Marino loved the long ball.

Hey I admit Marino wasn't the "perfect" QB but his teams ranged from very good to very average and he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as a Buffalo team that chewed up the AFC for years.

I just can't hold the lack of a SB against Marino. And even though Bledsoe has won one to me there is no comparison between the two. Marino was the far better QB. And actually Bledsoe has the same curse-- the love of the long ball.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with what you are saying. I think if Bledsoe makes good decisions we are going to be pretty salty this year.

Yes but if the O-line keeps causing setbacks because of penalties leaving us in 2nd and long and 3rd and long it puts more pressure on the QB, last year we commented way too many penalties. Last year defense killed us forcing Vinny to try and overcome the poor play of the defense. What I'm getting at is there is so much more involved in winning than just a QB others have to step up and do their jobs as well if they don't then it really does not matter who your QB is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Marino was a victum of his own success in my mind. Marino certainly had backs capable of rushing for a 1000 yards on the roster, down through the years, but the offensive philosophy did not support that type of offensive attack. Had he bought into it, I think he would have won a championship or 3. Because he didn't, I think he owns all the records but at what cost?

 

[Verdict]

I agree with that.

To bust on a Marino or Fouts or Kelly or Warren Moon or Fran Tarkenton just because they didn't win a SB is well... goofy.

To me they are all better QB's than Bledsoe-- a lot better.

Look. I am NOT saying that you have to win a superbowl to be a good QB and that if you don't you are a bad QB. I am saying that to win a superbowl you generally have to have very good decision making skills and that such skills are probably more important as a whole than raw skill. If raw skill were the hallmark of a great QB, you could probably say that Jeff George was one of the all time greats and we both know that is a fallacy.

 

[Verdict]

Yes but if the O-line keeps causing setbacks because of penalties leaving us in 2nd and long and 3rd and long it puts more pressure on the QB, last year we commented way too many penalties. Last year defense killed us forcing Vinny to try and overcome the poor play of the defense. What I'm getting at is there is so much more involved in winning than just a QB others have to step up and do their jobs as well if they don't then it really does not matter who your QB is.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[Verdict]

Hey I admit Marino wasn't the "perfect" QB but his teams ranged from very good to very average and he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as a Buffalo team that chewed up the AFC for years.

I just can't hold the lack of a SB against Marino. And even though Bledsoe has won one to me there is no comparison between the two. Marino was the far better QB. And actually Bledsoe has the same curse-- the love of the long ball.

Marino was a very good QB. I am not comparing Marino to Bledsoe. It is irrelevant which QB is better, because Bledsoe is the Cowboy's QB and Marino is retired. I hope you are wrong about Bledsoe's need to throw the long ball, because I doubt throwing the long ball all day like the Raiders plays to our strength. I have too much faith in Parcells to make Bledsoe play to the team's strenth which is the running game and the short/intermediate passes and th e occasional long ball to keep defenses honest.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Look. I am NOT saying that you have to win a superbowl to be a good QB and that if you don't you are a bad QB. I am saying that to win a superbowl you generally have to have very good decision making skills and that such skills are probably more important as a whole than raw skill. If raw skill were the hallmark of a great QB, you could probably say that Jeff George was one of the all time greats and we both know that is a fallacy.

The difference between George and Marino... well one of the differences, is that Marino never appeared to have the overwhelming raw skill. That's why he lasted so long in the 1st round where George was the shoe-in first overall pick. I graduated from Pitt about the same time as Marino and he could throw the ball extremely well but he wasn't looked upon as a guy that had huge raw skill.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Marino was a victum of his own success in my mind. Marino certainly had backs capable of rushing for a 1000 yards on the roster, down through the years, but the offensive philosophy did not support that type of offensive attack. Had he bought into it, I think he would have won a championship or 3. Because he didn't, I think he owns all the records but at what cost?

ABQ, you and I don't disagree with much but I will on this topic. Don Shula chose that offensive philosophy... not Marino. It was Shula who stuck with the air-game. And it started right at the top. The team focused on the passing game from being to end once they realized how great of a "toy" they had in Marino. They chose offensive line based upon their ability to pass block as opposed to run block... guys like Richmond Webb.

But the Dolphins never stuck to the running game because they didn't want to stick to the running game. And will say guys like Mark Higgs weren't 1,000 yard backs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The difference between George and Marino... well one of the differences, is that Marino never appeared to have the overwhelming raw skill. That's why he lasted so long in the 1st round where George was the shoe-in first overall pick. I graduated from Pitt about the same time as Marino and he could throw the ball extremely well but he wasn't looked upon as a guy that had huge raw skill.

I didn't realize you went to Pitt Mike. I recall watching Dan Marino in his Freshman year. Can't remember who you played, might have been Penn State but I recall the weather was bad. Snow/rain kind of deal. Big game, I think Jackie Sherrill might have been your coach then. I remember watching Marino and thinking to myself then, this kid is going to be some kinda player in a few years. Never had a doubt in my mind about that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I didn't realize you went to Pitt Mike. I recall watching Dan Marino in his Freshman year. Can't remember who you played, might have been Penn State but I recall the weather was bad. Snow/rain kind of deal. Big game, I think Jackie Sherrill might have been your coach then. I remember watching Marino and thinking to myself then, this kid is going to be some kinda player in a few years. Never had a doubt in my mind about that.

LOL!

But there were certainly enough doubts in that '83 draft. Amazing really.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

ABQ, you and I don't disagree with much but I will on this topic. Don Shula chose that offensive philosophy... not Marino. It was Shula who stuck with the air-game. And it started right at the top. The team focused on the passing game from being to end once they realized how great of a "toy" they had in Marino. They chose offensive line based upon their ability to pass block as opposed to run block... guys like Richmond Webb.

But the Dolphins never stuck to the running game because they didn't want to stick to the running game. And will say guys like Mark Higgs weren't 1,000 yard backs.

I agree with you on your point of Shula making the final decisions on the offense but I think back to a round table discussion I saw a few years ago on INSIDE the NFL. The discussion was on Manning, as I recall, and the question that was asked is if Manning should be restricted in his authority to audible and if he would ever win a championship. They discussed other QBs such as Young and Aikman and the fact that they did not have near the authority to change the plays. Marino made a comment about the fact that Aikman played in much more run oriented/ball control offense and so, the need to change plays was not as prevelant. The discussion went on to winning championships and the like. Marino said, at that time, that part of the reason they never had a strong running game was that he wanted to throw the football. He said that he never really wanted to run the ball and that if he could, he would have thrown it every time. Said that he recognized the fact that if he had been more open to running the football, they might have been more succesful in winning a championship. Also said he wouldn't have changed a thing.

I think that while the final decision was probably Shula, Marino had a large say in that process.

 

[dmq]

Anyone ever go to a Buffalo game? I have, several. If you saw how bad the wind is, you would not wonder why Bledsoe didn't look so good throwing the ball at times. I watched Bledsoe and he honestly was not in a position where he could succeed in Buffalo. His offensive line sucked, the weather sucked. His team went on a long winning streak when his running back was healthy. If they wouldn't have lost the playoff game, Bledsoe would not have been available. We got lucky I believe.

 

[Verdict]

The difference between George and Marino... well one of the differences, is that Marino never appeared to have the overwhelming raw skill. That's why he lasted so long in the 1st round where George was the shoe-in first overall pick. I graduated from Pitt about the same time as Marino and he could throw the ball extremely well but he wasn't looked upon as a guy that had huge raw skill.

......do you think Bledsoe is good enough to get the job done. I for one am hoping he is. I think if he will make good decisions that the team can go deep into the playoffs THIS year.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

LOL!

But there were certainly enough doubts in that '83 draft. Amazing really.

Yeah, in fact, as I recall, he did not have a great Sr. year. I remember him being hyped in his Jr. year as a possible Heisman guy but he kinda fell off in 82-83 season. That might have been the year Sherrill was replaced with Foge Fazio. Fazio, was the OC prior to that, I think but it's hard to remember some odd 25 years back. LOL.....

I think that kinda hurt Marino. Also, Marino didn't have the eye popping athleticisam. He had a great arm but was considered a bit of a Maverick. Mean time, you had John Elway who did have the eye popping skills, Blackledge who was considered the most ready to step in and run a pro offense (Penn State), Jim Kelly who also could run and throw (Miami), Eason (Illinois) and O'Brien (Cal Stat) who were both considered better athletes. I can see how he kinda fell off but certainly not as far down as he did IMO. As I recall, there may also have been some sort of Rumor about drugs or gambling or some such thing. Can't remember but if I know Sherrill, it was probably NCAA related.

I look back at that draft and I'm still amazed. That was one of the best drafts I've ever seen. You figure you had the QBs but you also had all these guys:

Eric Dickerson
Kurt Warner
Chris Hinton
Billy Ray Smith
Jimbo Covert
Bruce Mathews
Terry Kinard
Mike Pitts
Willie Gault
Joey Browner
Gill Byrd
JIm Jeffcoat
Dave Remington
Don Mosebar
Darrell Green.

I mean, that was an extremelly deep draft. Marino should not have slipped and teams will kick themselves forever probably but you can kinda see how it happened.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Anyone ever go to a Buffalo game? I have, several. If you saw how bad the wind is, you would not wonder why Bledsoe didn't look so good throwing the ball at times. I watched Bledsoe and he honestly was not in a position where he could succeed in Buffalo. His offensive line sucked, the weather sucked. His team went on a long winning streak when his running back was healthy. If they wouldn't have lost the playoff game, Bledsoe would not have been available. We got lucky I believe.

Boy are you right!

I remember how it was just before the axis of the earth shifted in the late 90's and Buffalo went from being "Miami of the north" weather wise to the conditions you describe in your post.

Jim Kelly... man was he lucky that he got to play in Buffalo when he did and never had to face the weather Drew Bledsoe did. Can you imagine how awful his stats would have been and how pathetic the K-gun offense would have looked facing those winds you describe?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Boy are you right!

I remember how it was just before the axis of the earth shifted in the late 90's and Buffalo went from being "Miami of the north" weather wise to the conditions you describe in your post.

Jim Kelly... man was he lucky that he got to play in Buffalo when he did and never had to face the weather Drew Bledsoe did. Can you imagine how awful his stats would have been and how pathetic the K-gun offense would have looked facing those winds you describe?

I think it is also worth mentioning that Kelly played his College ball in Miami and later, Houston, while in the USFL. Certainly not bad weather teams.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

......do you think Bledsoe is good enough to get the job done. I for one am hoping he is. I think if he will make good decisions that the team can go deep into the playoffs THIS year.

Bledsoe can get us to the playoffs OR he can keep us out of the playoffs. I think we're close but I think so much of our potential is based upon...

1. How well the young guys gel on defense.
2. How well the o-line gels.
3. Injuries at WR.

Any one of those three have the potential of totally derailing the season.

I just don't see us having the pieces in place to make a deep run this year. First round game maybe--- deep run? No. I just don't see it.