Bob Hayes question for the oldies

[kskboys]

I too was thinking of Deion. As great as Deion was, I think he too would struggle with Hill because of his jitterbug ability. Deion had some elusiveness .... but I don't think he could make the cuts that Hill makes. It would certainly be an epic matchup.

Our own Irvin caught 12 passes vs Deion in the 94 championship game loss.

 

[McKDaddy]

You also have to remember that the overall talent on today's rosters are superior to when it was a part time job. Again, no disrespect, but running away from guys who probably ran more like today's linebackers is a little misleading.

 

[JW82]

A colleague & I discussed Hill just a week or so ago. His ability to make the cuts he makes at the speed he makes them and ability to vary his speed & then explode is unlike anyone I've ever seen.

No disrespect to Bob or anyone else .... but I think Hill is the most dangerous offensive player the league has ever seen .... and I'm not sure anyone is that close. Defenses have years to study him and have come up with bupkus to stop him. It's combining world class speed with Barry Sanders type movement, power & balance all while allowing him to operate in space. It's completely one sided advantage for the offense.

I agree. He is the Barry Sanders of receivers.

 

[Chuck 54]

Bob Hayes held the Cowboys receiving TD record for a long long time after retiring, even as the NFL became a passing league.
He also returned kicks. In 1968, his punt return average for the season was 20.8.

 

[Qcard]

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever.

You are correct sir! Tyreek Hill's High school Olympic qualifying times in 200M....crazy see below

https://sports.yahoo.com/dolphins-wr-tyreek-hill-competes-in-first-track-meet-since-2014-never-racing-again-210639302.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKL2EHIkDFHMBFEmVopRSVXt9AFfGJL3Ew2pem9xdU3kbtQgvReveFGSUF7ChRPycGEYu_k085gPApkDRW8Z4Wg5GJTZyJFcKCeAEXULubKbPnwpiXwXs9IIKiNmqyFo3-IFstkoxL_6qlQ1e4LbU_fPq0Pp0ZJMBzwnqE2UhYZR#:~:text=Hill's personal best in the,to the elites of athletics.

He ran a 20.14-second 200-meter dash during his high school career. The automatic qualifying time for the Olympic Trials that year was 20.55. Instead, he competed at the world junior championships and junior nationals. He went on to compete for Oklahoma State and made the NCAA Indoor Championship finals in the 200, finishing fifth.

Hill's personal best in the 100m is 10.19 seconds. He also ran a wind-aided time of 9.98, which doesn't stand for official purposes due to a a 5.0 meter/second tailwind.

 

[eromeopolk]

I am old, but not old enough to have seen the Bullet play. Did his play resemble what Tarik Hill is doing today? Hill is easily the fastest player I have ever seen, curious if Bob was making world class athletes look slow too.

Faster. Yes I said it. When you have the nickname Bullet and you are not known for shooting people but running, then you revolutionize the sports you play and Hayes did it on the track and on the football field.
https://olympics.com/en/news/bob-the-bullet-hayes-runs-the-fastest-time-recorded-to-this-day
Bob Hayes has so many highlights running for TDs that a defender was not in the frame. He was unreal.

 

[RonnieT24]

You are correct sir! Tyreek Hill's High school Olympic qualifying times in 200M....crazy see below

https://sports.yahoo.com/dolphins-wr-tyreek-hill-competes-in-first-track-meet-since-2014-never-racing-again-210639302.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKL2EHIkDFHMBFEmVopRSVXt9AFfGJL3Ew2pem9xdU3kbtQgvReveFGSUF7ChRPycGEYu_k085gPApkDRW8Z4Wg5GJTZyJFcKCeAEXULubKbPnwpiXwXs9IIKiNmqyFo3-IFstkoxL_6qlQ1e4LbU_fPq0Pp0ZJMBzwnqE2UhYZR#:~:text=Hill's personal best in the,to the elites of athletics.

He ran a 20.14-second 200-meter dash during his high school career. The automatic qualifying time for the Olympic Trials that year was 20.55. Instead, he competed at the world junior championships and junior nationals. He went on to compete for Oklahoma State and made the NCAA Indoor Championship finals in the 200, finishing fifth.

Hill's personal best in the 100m is 10.19 seconds. He also ran a wind-aided time of 9.98, which doesn't stand for official purposes due to a a 5.0 meter/second tailwind.

No shade intended but there is HUGE difference between "qualifying" and actually being competitive.. and a 25 foot long jump from there to actually winning the thing. There have been a ton of high schoolers who have qualified for the Olympic trials by virtue of running a qualifying time. Very few of them have actually done any damage once they got there. None of them have come home with Olympic Gold. Dwayne Evans came the closest. I think he won bronze in the 200 meters in the 1976 Olympics the same year he graduated high school.

 

[KJJ]

You can judge for yourself:

Funny, watching the highlights he doesn’t look as fast or quick as Tyreek Hill. Bob Hayes had a little bit of a hitch in his stride. I haven’t seen a single highlight of Bob Hayes where he looked as fast as Bo Jackson on this run against Seattle. Hayes never seemed to absolutely blow away defenders like Jackson did on this run. Not sure I’ve seen anyone look as fast in pads as Bo Jackson did here. Wish they were using speed guns back then.

 

[JoeKing]

I like the question. Thank you, OP for asking. I'm a little too young to remember him playing too so, as a Cowboys fan, I'm curious as well how much he stuck out as an obvious weapon on the football field.

 

[RonnieT24]

Funny, watching the highlights he doesn’t look as fast or quick as Tyreek Hill. Bob Hayes had a little bit of a hitch in his stride. I haven’t seen a single highlight of Bob Hayes where he looked as fast as Bo Jackson on this run against Seattle. Hayes never seemed to absolutely blow away defenders like Jackson did on this run. Not sure I’ve seen anyone look as fast in pads as Bo Jackson did here. Wish they were using speed guns back then.

Bob Hayes was a lot faster than Tyreke Hill. Maybe not as quick but he really didn't have to be. Once he hit the accelerator to get from point A to point B there was literally no other human on the planet who could stay with him. There are probably 10 or 15 guys in the NFL today as fast as Hill. Which is not to say that makes him slower, just that NFL teams have been employing faster and faster people every year .. largely because of Bob Hayes. But the hitch in his stride is a valid observation. I have always maintained that had he gotten year round training for years like sprinters do now they would have gotten rid of that hitch and he would have been even faster. Another thing to remember about Bullet was that once he had a step on the defense he knew nobody was catching him... so he would literally go into glide mode and score. Why use more energy than necessary? It was similar to Deion's high stepping the last 25 yards on a pick six or a return. He wasn't running nearly as fast as he could, but since nobody was catching him he could have some fun with it. Hayes didn't showboat.. he just set it on cruise control. Same result.

 

[maryquality]

When I first saw this thread, I initially thought you were singling out @Bobhaze with a question about the "old" cowboys players. LOL

 

[KJJ]

Bob Hayes was a lot faster than Tyreke Hill. Maybe not as quick but he really didn't have to be. Once he hit the accelerator to get from point A to point B there was literally no other human on the planet who could stay with him. There are probably 10 or 15 guys in the NFL today as fast as Hill. Which is not to say that makes him slower, just that NFL teams have been employing faster and faster people every year .. largely because of Bob Hayes. But the hitch in his stride is a valid observation. I have always maintained that had he gotten year round training for years like sprinters do now they would have gotten rid of that hitch and he would have been even faster. Another thing to remember about Bullet was that once he had a step on the defense he knew nobody was catching him... so he would literally go into glide mode and score. Why use more energy than necessary? It was similar to Deion's high stepping the last 25 yards on a pick six or a return. He wasn't running nearly as fast as he could, but since nobody was catching him he could have some fun with it. Hayes didn't showboat.. he just set it on cruise control. Same result.

He wasn’t a lot faster at least not in pads. Looking up his 100 meter times, they’re conflicting. I’ve seen everything from 10.0 as his personal best to 10.06. He supposedly had a wind assisted 9.91. Tyreek Hill’s best 100 meters is listed at 10.19. However, I don’t think Bob Hayes looked as fast in pads on a football field. He wasn’t blowing defenders away in a full sprint. However, Tyreek Hill does. So did Bo Jackson. Darrell Green was another who was incredibly fast in pads on a field. He had amazing closing speed when chasing down someone.

 

[JW82]

I'm a young guy as well, but you can still watch the film.

Dude was a track star. Defensive concepts exist today because of DC's trying to cover him decades ago.

Sure but you can watch the Highlights of a lot of players and they'll all look great. Seeing a guy play full games live is a different story. He is one of only a handful of guys that could convert that track speed to the field. Lots of fast guys can't play...ask the Raiders.

 

[RonnieT24]

He wasn’t a lot faster at least not in pads. Looking up his 100 meter times, they’re conflicting. I’ve seen everything from 10.0 as his personal best to 10.06. He supposedly had a wind assisted 9.91. Tyreek Hill’s best 100 meters is listed at 10.19. However, I don’t think Bob Hayes looked as fast in pads on a football field. He wasn’t blowing defenders away in a full sprint. However, Tyreek Hill does. So did Bo Jackson. Darrell Green was another who was incredibly fast in pads on a field. He had amazing closing speed when chasing down someone.

Maybe not.. but he was a lot faster than everybody else on the field that's for sure. As for "blowing defenders away?" There is ample footage of him catching (and occasionally dropping) TD passes when the nearest defender is 10 yards behind him. How do you suppose that happened? The man averaged 20 yards per reception.. FOR HIS CAREER. If we take their two "official" PRs and put them side by side Hayes would beat Hill by like 3 yards in a 100 meters. Go look at that picture of the 100 meter final from 1964. The two closest runners to Hayes came in at about Hill's time. Look how far behind him they are. Another thing to keep in mind is that pads were heavy and clunky back then. I imagine if you put some of the speedsters of yesteryear like Hayes, Alworth, Branch et al in today's lightweight form fitting unis they'd look a lot faster in pads too. Because they would be.

 

[RonnieT24]

Sure but you can watch the Highlights of a lot of players and they'll all look great. Seeing a guy play full games live is a different story. He is one of only a handful of guys that could convert that track speed to the field. Lots of fast guys can't play...ask the Raiders.

Hayes was a football player first and foremost. He had to get permission from Jake Gaither, his college coach just to train and compete in the Olympics because doing so was going to cause him to miss time with the football team. That's what is so mind boggling about his accomplishments. Track and field was legit his side hustle.. and he was the best in the world at it.

 

[KJJ]

Maybe not.. but he was a lot faster than everybody else on the field that's for sure. As for "blowing defenders away?" There is ample footage of him catching (and occasionally dropping) TD passes when the nearest defender is 10 yards behind him. How do you suppose that happened? The man averaged 20 yards per reception.. FOR HIS CAREER. If we take their two "official" PRs and put them side by side Hayes would beat Hill by like 3 yards in a 100 meters. Go look at that picture of the 100 meter final from 1964. The two closest runners to Hayes came in at about Hill's time. Look how far behind him they are. Another thing to keep in mind is that pads were heavy and clunky back then. I imagine if you put some of the speedsters of yesteryear like Hayes, Alworth, Branch et al in today's lightweight form fitting unis they'd look a lot faster in pads too. Because they would be.

I agree he was definitely a lot faster than anyone on the field. He ran past defenders on deep balls, but when I say blowing people away, I’m referring to shorter passes and his speed after the catch. Some defenders were able to stay within 3 to 4 yards of him. When you watch Bo Jackson on that TD run against Seattle, defenders had an angle on him, and he still blew past them and had them eating his dust. The last time I commented on this someone wanted to turn it into a three day argument. It’s silly to debate this any further. It’s all based on opinion. NFL films had a ranking of the fastest players of all time in the NFL and ranked Bob Hayes number 2 behind Darrell Green. It was based on their opinion. In another ranking, he was ranked third behind Green and Bo Jackson. However, most rankings have Bob Hayes number one.

 

[Qcard]

No shade intended but there is HUGE difference between "qualifying" and actually being competitive.. and a 25 foot long jump from there to actually winning the thing. There have been a ton of high schoolers who have qualified for the Olympic trials by virtue of running a qualifying time. Very few of them have actually done any damage once they got there. None of them have come home with Olympic Gold. Dwayne Evans came the closest. I think he won bronze in the 200 meters in the 1976 Olympics the same year he graduated high school.

No Shade taken...I understand your point. As good as Hill was he still finished 5th at NCAA finals. I'd be surprised if the top 4 could project their speed on the gridiron

The delta between Qualifying and Competing athletes in significant BUT even higher is the DELTA between Olympic qualifying athletes and other non-track specific athletes.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Bullet was ahead of his time. There was nobody in the league at the time with anything close to his raw speed. Hill is impressive but certainly nothing we haven’t seen before. Hayes was something the league had literally never seen before.

Because of Bob Hayes speed NFL teams had to design zone coverage, no cb could cover him deep

 

[Cowboys5217]

Bullet was ahead of his time. There was nobody in the league at the time with anything close to his raw speed. Hill is impressive but certainly nothing we haven’t seen before. Hayes was something the league had literally never seen before.

There's still nobody as fast as Bob Hayes and there never has been. The NFL tried to retcon and named Darrel Green as faster player ever but that is a big load of bullocks and I can prove it.

No human being has ever ran a 4x100 relay leg faster than Bob Hayes. He still holds the record to this day for that and if you take a look at who is number two on that list you will find the name of Usain Bolt.

So the NFL would have us believe that Darrel Green is faster than Usain Bolt because Bob Hayes IS STILL faster than Usain Bolt and every other human being that has ever tried to run a 4x100 relay leg. Laughable anti-Cowboys bias from the NFL on that one.

 

[Blast From The Past]

Hayes speed in track in 1964 was almost 27mph