Bob McGinn - Draft Series (Based on scouting comments) - QBs

[xwalker]

I don't think there is anything wrong with his mental ability or makeup. I think his problem is patients more then anything.

If I had to do a one word association with him, it would be wreckless.

Mental Makeup is a term to refer to any non physical attribute.

Patience (not patients) is a mental issue, not physical. Being wreckless is a mental issue.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Mental Makeup is a term to refer to any non physical attribute.

Patience (not patients) is a mental issue, not physical. Being wreckless is a mental issue.

Semantics I suppose. I don't see it that way. I see his style of play as wreckless. Mentally, he is fine IMO. Patience is more of an indicator of maturity level, as I see it. It's not uncommon for a young successful College QB to be impatient. That doesn't really indicate to me that he has a problem with Mental stability. It suggest to me that he is normal. I guess it all depends on what level of maturity the young man is at. It's hard to know with him. He does certain things that make me think he has a ways to go but I've also heard him speak and you come away thinking that he's not a lot different then lots of young players. Even impressive at time.

I am not for drafting him but it's not because I think he has stability issues. It's more the situation and the way I think his game translates.

 

[xwalker]

While what you say is true it is also fair from a science.
Rodgers fell due to mental makeup questions.

What part of Manziel's mental make up is really in question?

The spotlight is never too big, he never folded under pressure.
When criticized he handled it either with comedy or with a strong showing.
He is not a dummy, if wonderlic means anything and historically it has.
He is a gym rat that loves celebrity status and beautiful women.
Sounds like a lot of VERY successful QBs.

I'm not an expert on little Johnnie, but I know that he has done several questionable things. Didn't show for the Manning's camp, taking money for autographs, etc..

Just the whole concept of being a celebratory QB, especially from the very beginning, can lead to distractions. That's why Parcells didn't want a celebrity QB.

 

[burmafrd]

Mental Makeup is a term to refer to any non physical attribute.

Patience (not patients) is a mental issue, not physical. Being wreckless is a mental issue.

I saw what you did here

 

[xwalker]

Semantics I suppose. I don't see it that way. I see his style of play as wreckless. Mentally, he is fine IMO. Patience is more of an indicator of maturity level, as I see it. It's not uncommon for a young successful College QB to be impatient. That doesn't really indicate to me that he has a problem with Mentally stability. It suggest to me that he is normal. I guess it all depends on what level of maturity the young man is at. It's hard to know with him. He does certain things that make me think he has a ways to go but I've also heard him speak and you come away thinking that he's not a lot different then lots of young players. Even impressive at time.

I am not for drafting him but it's not because I think he has stability issues. It's more the situation and the way I think his game translates.

There is no seeing it one way or the other. That's the definition of mental makeup. Any non physical issue comes under mental makeup. Being wreckless is not a physical issue.

Players can be intelligent and have good character and still have a poor mental makeup in terms of football. Bobbie Carpenter has good character and was intelligent and not crazy; however, he had a poor mental makeup in terms of football because he didn't like the physicality of the NFL. In other words, he was not mentally tough.

 

[jterrell]

I'm not an expert on little Johnnie, but I know that he has done several questionable things. Didn't show for the Manning's camp, taking money for autographs, etc..

Just the whole concept of being a celebratory QB, especially from the very beginning, can lead to distractions. That's why Parcells didn't want a celebrity QB.

Again what you are saying is fair, but not sure that is mental makeup.
That sounds an awful lot like maturity and guys like Favre and Rodgers had those issues as well.
For me mental make up is:
Do you love football?
Are you a self-motivated person?
Do you want to be the best?
Can you learn the intricacies of the game and win mental chess matches?

So for me, he is fine mentally if not in maturity.
And those are not at all the same.
A lot of guys grow up and mature but also lose love for the game and a desire to be the best.
JM truly wants to be the best and has confidence that he will be.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There is no seeing it one way or the other. That's the definition of mental makeup. Any non physical issue comes under mental makeup. Being wreckless is not a physical issue.

Players can be intelligent and have good character and still have a poor mental makeup in terms of football. Bobbie Carpenter has good character and was intelligent and not crazy; however, he had a poor mental makeup in terms of football because he didn't like the physicality of the NFL. In other words, he was not mentally tough.

There is always difference of opinion. There are two sides. You may not agree and that's fine but it doesn't change that fact.

 

[xwalker]

Again what you are saying is fair, but not sure that is mental makeup.
That sounds an awful lot like maturity and guys like Favre and Rodgers had those issues as well.
For me mental make up is:
Do you love football?
Are you a self-motivated person?
Do you want to be the best?
Can you learn the intricacies of the game and win mental chess matches?

So for me, he is fine mentally if not in maturity.
And those are not at all the same.
A lot of guys grow up and mature but also lose love for the game and a desire to be the best.
JM truly wants to be the best and has confidence that he will be.

Mental makeup is just a general term that scouts use to refer to any non-physical issue.

There can be different definitions of what is consider a poor mental makeup vs good mental makeup.

Mental Makeup is a definition. The things that you listed above are your criteria for rating a player's mental makeup. It's fine if you don't consider immaturity as a reason to give a player a poor rating, but immaturity is still part of his current mental makeup. Immaturity is definitely not physical.

 

[xwalker]

Again what you are saying is fair, but not sure that is mental makeup.
That sounds an awful lot like maturity and guys like Favre and Rodgers had those issues as well.
For me mental make up is:
Do you love football?
Are you a self-motivated person?
Do you want to be the best?
Can you learn the intricacies of the game and win mental chess matches?

So for me, he is fine mentally if not in maturity.
And those are not at all the same.
A lot of guys grow up and mature but also lose love for the game and a desire to be the best.
JM truly wants to be the best and has confidence that he will be.

There is always difference of opinion. There are two sides. You may not agree and that's fine but it doesn't change that fact.

Have I mentioned that it would be boring here if you guys always agreed with me?

 

[DFWJC]

I've always looked at "maturity" as a subset of "mental makeup"

 

[MonsterD]

While what you say is true it is also fair from a science.
Rodgers fell due to mental makeup questions.

What part of Manziel's mental make up is really in question?

The spotlight is never too big, he never folded under pressure.
When criticized he handled it either with comedy or with a strong showing.
He is not a dummy, if wonderlic means anything and historically it has.
He is a gym rat that loves celebrity status and beautiful women.
Sounds like a lot of VERY successful QBs.

Uh that is not the way I remember it for Aaron Rodgers. The 2 weeks before that draft 80% of the mocks I saw had him as #1 overall. Then right before the draft I heard the rumors that he might fall, reason? The teams that were QB hungry were scared of the "Tedford QB syndrome" I forget the other QBs that were Tedford inflated or infected, depending on what you saw, but I remember Joey Harrington and Akili Smith were two of them. By the time Rodgers came out too may higher-ups were fearful of another in the production line of failures.

 

[Gaede]

Rodgers definitely fell due to personality concerns , as well. That's part of the reason people took such 'delight' in his public fall. He was a cocky overrated system QB.

Was a combo of intangibles and the system concerns.

 

[perrykemp]

The teams that were QB hungry were scared of the "Tedford QB syndrome" I forget the other QBs that were Tedford inflated or infected, depending on what you saw, but I remember Joey Harrington and Akili Smith were two of them.

Kyle Boller and Trent Dilfer were also Tedford QBs.

I have a strong suspicion that Rodgers might have been a shadow of what he actually became because he wasn't thrown to the wolves in GB and got to sit three years behind a HOF QB in Favre.

From all indications he wasn't ready to play when he game to GB. He was not very strong, and easily hurt. I believe he broke his foot at least two of those three years and went on IR. He admits he had to rebuild his body and did in those 3 years.

 

[jterrell]

Uh that is not the way I remember it for Aaron Rodgers. The 2 weeks before that draft 80% of the mocks I saw had him as #1 overall. Then right before the draft I heard the rumors that he might fall, reason? The teams that were QB hungry were scared of the "Tedford QB syndrome" I forget the other QBs that were Tedford inflated or infected, depending on what you saw, but I remember Joey Harrington and Akili Smith were two of them. By the time Rodgers came out too may higher-ups were fearful of another in the production line of failures.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...ry-long-draft-day/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Nolan was no-nonsense, a strong personality who didn’t like to be challenged. He met with both Rodgers and Smith before the draft. He caught a whiff of attitude from Rodgers, and that was that. Smith was chosen based on personality. He is cerebral, introspective, with a distaste for confrontation.

 

[MonsterD]

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...ry-long-draft-day/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Nolan was no-nonsense, a strong personality who didn’t like to be challenged. He met with both Rodgers and Smith before the draft. He caught a whiff of attitude from Rodgers, and that was that. Smith was chosen based on personality. He is cerebral, introspective, with a distaste for confrontation.

Well that is one team. I totally get that Rodger's weird vibe wasn't well met by him though,, probably not arrogance per se. Be interested if that was something all teams found in interviews, because guys like Manziel today have a ton of attitude.

 

[jterrell]

Well that is one team. I totally get that Rodger's weird vibe wasn't well met by him though,, probably not arrogance per se. Be interested if that was something all teams found in interviews, because guys like Manziel today have a ton of attitude.

He came off as cocky in all the interviews and the 49ers were not shy about sharing as you read above what they felt about him.
Texas Tech has just destroyed his heavily favored side in a Bowl game.

Rodgers was a cannon armed 4.6 guy.
But he was abrasive....

Don't think so?

This is what happened during MANZIEL's pro day....

Aaron Rodgers ✔ @AaronRodgers12 Follow
2 of the 3 guys commenting on this workout right now have opinions that shouldn't be taken very seriously.



The workout was covered by both ESPN and the NFL Network. We don’t know which one Rodgers was watching, but he wasn’t impressed.


ESPN rolled out Todd McShay, Ed Werder and Bill Polian as its team of analysts. NFL Network had Mike Mayock, Paul Burmeister and Kurt Warner. If Rodgers was watching NFL Network, he had to have been saying Warner is the only one with knowledge. Warner has been to three Super Bowls and has a ring. There’s no way Rodgers would group him in with the others.


If Rodgers was watching ESPN, my guess is he was saying Polian is the only one who should be taken seriously. Werder is simply a reporter and McShay is a draft analyst, whereas Polian spent a number of years as a scout, personnel director, general manager, and team president in the NFL.

 

[DFWJC]

Uh that is not the way I remember it for Aaron Rodgers. The 2 weeks before that draft 80% of the mocks I saw had him as #1 overall. Then right before the draft I heard the rumors that he might fall, reason? The teams that were QB hungry were scared of the "Tedford QB syndrome" I forget the other QBs that were Tedford inflated or infected, depending on what you saw, but I remember Joey Harrington and Akili Smith were two of them. By the time Rodgers came out too may higher-ups were fearful of another in the production line of failures.

you recall correctly