Breaking Down the NFC East

[Little Jr]

Well you took it right back to stats and I will say again, you cannot compare them. The 2 QBs were a 1,000 yards apart in passing yards. Ours is better and more prolific. Eli didnt show up until the post season. .

Well your changed you argument now. It was that I cant compare the 2 becasue they were in 2 different O's and now it's becasue of the QB's. I wont argue this one though. Ours is better.

Until Shockey went down he was one of Eli's primary targets & well and was on pace for another big year. So they are not dissimilar in the use of TE either..

Yes he was but he wanst even close to having a Witten type year. He went down with 2 games left. He would had to had around 40 rec. in 2 games to compete with Wittens year.

Wits numbers went up when Glenn went down. If not we'd have still had 2 1,000 yard WRs I bet. .

I dont disagree with that. When healthy I would take Glenn over Toomer. I just think Toomer and Crayton are a wash. I see them as equal. I actually give Crayton a slight edge just because of youth.

When you get past stats there is no comparison. Toomer is a far superior player..

I just dont see it. Especially to say far superior player.

I dont know why you say WAS?..

You said he's a 5 time 1000 yd WR. He was. He isnt anymore.

Toomer was better last year. With another 280 and 3 TDs, 2 vs. us on the road in the post season.

Not sure I understand this one.



My true opinion is if Crayton wouldnt had missed that catch in the playoff game there would be very little debate about Crayton. If we would had went on and won the game even with the miss, I think there would had been very little debate about him. Especially if we would had went on and won the SB. Would people still wanted to upgrade with RW. AB or CJ? Sure. Most teams would.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Quarterback
​

1. Tony Romo. I think he will be the best once he learns to win in the Post Season.
2. TEli Manning. Defending Super Bowl MVP.
3. Donovan McNabb. At one time the unquestioned king, now fading with injuries.
4. Jason Campbell. Has time to climb.

fixed that 4 you.

 

[dooomsday]

Well your changed you argument now. It was that I cant compare the 2 becasue they were in 2 different O's and now it's becasue of the QB's. I wont argue this one though. Ours is better.



Yes he was but he wanst even close to having a Witten type year. He went down with 2 games left. He would had to had around 40 rec. in 2 games to compete with Wittens year.




I dont disagree with that. When healthy I would take Glenn over Toomer. I just think Toomer and Crayton are a wash. I see them as equal. I actually give Crayton a slight edge just because of youth.





I just dont see it. Especially to say far superior player.



You said he's a 5 time 1000 yd WR. He was. He isnt anymore.




Not sure I understand this one.



My true opinion is if Crayton wouldnt had missed that catch in the playoff game there would be very little debate about Crayton. If we would had went on and won the game even with the miss, I think there would had been very little debate about him. Especially if we would had went on and won the SB. Would people still wanted to upgrade with RW. AB or CJ? Sure. Most teams would.

Dude, talk about changing the argument. You implied that Crayton plays in "TE heavy system" probably forgetting NY is too. But our TE was not a primary target until we lost our starting WR. We used Wit that heavily because Crayton did not fill Glenns #2 role as well Glenn did. Or, the TE stats would have been similar as they have been every year.

You said your not looking at Toomer past, then but rather now. And I told you Toomer is better now too. He had a better year. Toomer was way more consistent and reliable.

What dont you understand about Toomers post season including 21 catches, 300 yards and 3 tds when it count compared to Pats post season? Thats when it counts my freind. Not Pats 200 yard day vs. the Rams in week 3.

Many people questioned Pat as the #2 all season.

 

[scottsp]

Good list, Hos. You obviously put some work into this. I agree with most of it. I might nitpick by moving Snee & Seubert up, but that's about it. Your reasoning is sound, IMO.

 

[Little Jr]

Dude, talk about changing the argument. You implied that Crayton plays in "TE heavy system" probably forgetting NY is too. But our TE was not a primary target until we lost our starting WR. We used Wit that heavily because Crayton did not fill Glenns #2 role as well Glenn did. Or, the TE stats would have been similar as they have been every year. .

My argument never changed. He played in a TE heavy system. I did not forget NY TE's. They were not use as much as ours. I disagree that we used the TE heavily becasue Crayton didnt fill Glenns shoes. I believe we used the TE that heavily becasue of JG. Everyone knew when he came in that the O was gonna be TE heavy. Even with Glenn, Witten would have had a huge year. It might would had taken 10 rec off his total. Put Toomer in our O and Witten would have had the same kind of year.

You said your not looking at Toomer past, then but rather now. And I told you Toomer is better now too. He had a better year. Toomer was way more consistent and reliable..

I just dont see it even though your telling me.:laugh1: How was he more consistent? Reliable? The one miss. I'll give you that.

What dont you understand about Toomers post season including 21 catches, 300 yards and 3 tds when it count compared to Pats post season? Thats when it counts my freind. Not Pats 200 yard day vs. the Rams in week 3...

I agree. That is when it counts. Going on that alone though means Eli is better than Romo. We both agree that isnt true.

Many people questioned Pat as the #2 all season.

I agree. Most of it was his lack of ability to stretch the field. Toomer isnt known for stretching the field.

 

[Hostile]

Good list, Hos. You obviously put some work into this. I agree with most of it. I might nitpick by moving Snee & Seubert up, but that's about it. Your reasoning is sound, IMO.

Pissed some folks off huh?

 

[AdamJT13]

Crayton

50 Rec for 697 yards 13.9 average and 7 TD's

Toomer

59 Rec for 760 yards 12.9 average and 3 TD's

Crayton 81 targets.

Toomer 104 targets.

Crayton's stats projected over 104 targets -- 64 catches, 895 yards, 9 TDs.


On a per-pass basis, Crayton has been extremely productive over his career. Part of that is because he hasn't been the focus of opposing defenses, but that hasn't helped a lot of other receivers from being nearly as productive per pass.

 

[theogt]

Crayton 81 targets.

Toomer 104 targets.

Crayton's stats projected over 104 targets -- 64 catches, 895 yards, 9 TDs.


On a per-pass basis, Crayton has been extremely productive over his career. Part of that is because he hasn't been the focus of opposing defenses, but that hasn't helped a lot of other receivers from being nearly as productive per pass.

Your boy KC always raves about Crayton and his YPA.

Did you get his email notification that he's going to be posting in-season weekly updates for defensive back stats under his fantasy football package? Sweetness.

 

[dcfanatic]

Ill take TO and Crayton over Burress and Toomer

Also Eli may be the Superbowl MVP but the best Quarterback in this division has a star on his helmet.

I agree.

 

[Little Jr]

Crayton 81 targets.

Toomer 104 targets.

Crayton's stats projected over 104 targets -- 64 catches, 895 yards, 9 TDs.


On a per-pass basis, Crayton has been extremely productive over his career. Part of that is because he hasn't been the focus of opposing defenses, but that hasn't helped a lot of other receivers from being nearly as productive per pass.

FINALLY!!! I've been waiting for the day that I agree with you so I could use you and your stats in my argument.

 

[Little Jr]

Pissed some folks off huh?

I sense a little enjoyment.

 

[Hostile]

I sense a little enjoyment.

A wee bit.

:wink2:

 

[Little Jr]

A wee bit.

:wink2:

:laugh1: I hear you. It was a good list though.

 

[bbgun]

And in conclusion:

1. Tom Coughlin
2. Andy Reid
3. Wade Phillips
4. Jim Zorn

 

[CowboyMike]

I think people aren't giving Crayton enough credit for the entire body of work. He still had 50 catches, and a better statistical season than Alvin Harper ever had as a number 2. Everyone needs to stop looking at the playoff game as the only bit of evidence and look at the entire season.

 

[Hostile]

I think people aren't giving Crayton enough credit for the entire body of work. He still had 50 catches, and a better statistical season than Alvin Harper ever had as a number 2. Everyone needs to stop looking at the playoff game as the only bit of evidence and look at the entire season.

Yet, that isn't what I did at all. Look at what I wrote. The Cowboys feel that the #2 WR position is unsettled. How do I know this? Glenn's health, Crayton's issues, and the fact that Jerry himself has mentioned wanting to upgrade. If that position did not have question marks around it I would have graded it higher. But there are question marks and that lowers the grade.

 

[AbeBeta]

Crayton 81 targets.

Toomer 104 targets.

Crayton's stats projected over 104 targets -- 64 catches, 895 yards, 9 TDs.


On a per-pass basis, Crayton has been extremely productive over his career. Part of that is because he hasn't been the focus of opposing defenses, but that hasn't helped a lot of other receivers from being nearly as productive per pass.

Per pass is fine but that statistic doesn't exist in a vacuum - Crayton he does well with the chances he's given, yes. But that 81 target stat also tells us something -- PC isn't getting as many opportunities as other 2nd WRs - and there is a reason for that....

(before people label me anti-Crayton -- note that I like what he brings to the team and see him as a decent #2)

 

[Da Hammer]

i mostly agree with that list except i would put the Eagles guards #1 and i could argue Romo should be ahead of Manning but i won't ur reason is not a bad one.

 

[theogt]

Per pass is fine but that statistic doesn't exist in a vacuum - Crayton he does well with the chances he's given, yes. But that 81 target stat also tells us something -- PC isn't getting as many opportunities as other 2nd WRs - and there is a reason for that....

(before people label me anti-Crayton -- note that I like what he brings to the team and see him as a decent #2)

That was an initial thought of mine, but getting open has never really been a problem for Crayton. Several coaches have commented on it (past and current regime). Perhaps it becomes more of a problem when teams focus on him as a #2, but he still put up admirable numbers despite teams knowing all season that he was the #2 receiver. I think he's just targeted less because of Owens and Witten (which should get a "DUH!" response).

 

[dooomsday]

Crayton 81 targets.

Toomer 104 targets.

Crayton's stats projected over 104 targets -- 64 catches, 895 yards, 9 TDs.


On a per-pass basis, Crayton has been extremely productive over his career. Part of that is because he hasn't been the focus of opposing defenses, but that hasn't helped a lot of other receivers from being nearly as productive per pass.

Very interesting, thanks.

I will tell you why it doesnt work or me. They did play the season and post season so there's no reason to project. By seasons end Toomer was a much more productive and valuable big game player.

Another reason its doesnt work for me Pat Crayton is inconsistent game in and out. He got more 1/4 of his yards in one game. He had a couple games with no receptions. And didnt break 80 yards in any other game. I think he had 5 good games. Its possible his limitations play a role in his targets.

I am just saying....