Bring me your tired, your hungry, your stories...

[joseephuss]

Even in that example, though - were there many players who experienced some rennaissance? I had thought about ole Bill when I made the thread, but really who turned their career around, to rpeviously unknown hieghts from that team. Quincy was still upside down in TD-INTs. Roy and Newman were new players. Flozell Adams was the closest I could imagine. They played better as a unit (for reasons that have been discussed to death) but there were no real rejuvenated players.

What about Richie Anderson? He came to Dallas and set career highs in rushing attempts, rushing yards and rushing TDs.

 

[superpunk]

What about Richie Anderson? He came to Dallas and set career highs in rushing attempts, rushing yards and rushing TDs.

That wasn't the question, crazy guy.




And you know you love me, randy.

 

[cowboyjoe]

ok, here is my story, which i have 2 of them to share, first one i can back up by fact, but second one just by my thinking and my word.

In 1975, we were missing field goals, right and left in preseason, charley waters was the holder for field goals. Right before the kicker would kick the ball, charley waters would look up at the goal posts, his top index finger would come off the ball, and his 4th finger. The ball would tip one way to the left or to the right, right before it was kicked. Naturally, a missed field goal. I sat down and wrote Tex Schramn and Gil Brandt a leter.

I got a reply back in mail from Tex stating that they would look into it, next game, charley waters would keep all fingers and thumb on the ball, he never looked up and we didnt miss any more field goals that year. I got a thank you letter back from tex and gil. With my season tickets, I was in second level about 14th row. They changed my season tickets, moved me down to first level, at the 25 yard line. And i got a couple of black and white photos of some players. Rest is history.

The above story I can prove, now to the one I cant prove, that same year, I had gotten a football book that was written by Red Hickey, then a coach asst with the cowboys. One of the plays, was the shotgun formation. I saw that and thought, you know that might give Roger the dodge Staubach more time to throw. So, i tore out the formation out of the book, with some other stuff, put it in a yellow envelope, and went to dallas. After arriving at their headquarters, I saw Mrs Landry coming out of the elevator, said hi to her, and went up the elevator to the cowboys floor. Walking up to the desk, I got the shock of my life, John Wooten all pro guard of the cleveland browns was not with the cowboys staff, he asked me what I wanted. I told him, i had some info for the cowboys, gave Mr. Wooten the yellow package, he said he would give it to them.

I cant prove that year, that the shotgun formation was formed to what I gave them. But it was the same year that Landry installed the formation during the offseason.

Another story that isnt mine, but I heard about on radio, back then best i remember, best I remember been years ago, but they had the Tex Schramn show and you could call in and talk to Tex. One cowboy fan, called in and said that in the Commander cowboy game, that robert newhouse was playing, and Jack Pardee was linebacker best I remember, he told Tex, that he saw everytime the cowboys went to passing, the middle linebacker would call out, pass, pass before the cowboys hiked the ball. The guy that called in said, Tex, i noticed that everytime Robert Newhouse was going out for a pass, he would unbuckle his chin strap, so maybe he could jump up for a pass etc and run. Tex, said they would look into that, the next ball game, robert newhouse keep his chin strap buttoned up throughout the ball game, pass and run.

So, just wanted to show you guys, fans can make a difference.

joe

 

[Jarv]

ok, here is my story, which i have 2 of them to share, first one i can back up by fact, but second one just by my thinking and my word.
In 1975, we were missing field goals, right and left in preseason, charley waters was the holder for field goals. Right before the kicker would kick the ball, charley waters would look up at the goal posts, his top index finger would come off the ball, and his 4th finger. The ball would tip one way to the left or to the right, right before it was kicked. Naturally, a missed field goal. I sat down and wrote Tex Schramn and Gil Brandt a leter.
I got a reply back in mail from Tex stating that they would look into it, next game, charley waters would keep all fingers and thumb on the ball, he never looked up and we didnt miss any more field goals that year. I got a thank you letter back from tex and gil. With my season tickets, I was in second level about 14th row. They changed my season tickets, moved me down to first level, at the 25 yard line. And i got a couple of black and white photos of some players. Rest is history.
The above story I can prove, now to the one I cant prove, that same year, I had gotten a football book that was written by Red Hickey, then a coach asst with the cowboys. One of the plays, was the shotgun formation. I saw that and thought, you know that might give Roger the dodge Staubach more time to throw. So, i tore out the formation out of the book, with some other stuff, put it in a yellow envelope, and went to dallas. After arriving at their headquarters, I saw Mrs Landry coming out of the elevator, said hi to her, and went up the elevator to the cowboys floor. Walking up to the desk, I got the shock of my life, John Wooten all pro guard of the cleveland browns was not with the cowboys staff, he asked me what I wanted. I told him, i had some info for the cowboys, gave Mr. Wooten the yellow package, he said he would give it to them.
I cant prove that year, that the shotgun formation was formed to what I gave them. But it was the same year that Landry installed the formation during the offseason.
Another story that isnt mine, but I heard about on radio, back then best i remember, best I remember been years ago, but they had the Tex Schramn show and you could call in and talk to Tex. One cowboy fan, called in and said that in the Commander cowboy game, that robert newhouse was playing, and Jack Pardee was linebacker best I remember, he told Tex, that he saw everytime the cowboys went to passing, the middle linebacker would call out, pass, pass before the cowboys hiked the ball. The guy that called in said, Tex, i noticed that everytime Robert Newhouse was going out for a pass, he would unbuckle his chin strap, so maybe he could jump up for a pass etc and run. Tex, said they would look into that, the next ball game, robert newhouse keep his chin strap buttoned up throughout the ball game, pass and run.
So, just wanted to show you guys, fans can make a difference.
joe

Great stories Joe !

 

[dogunwo]

Phillips has rarely inherited a defense and took a step back.

He's taken bad defenses and made them better.

But those expecting a quantum leap forward and a morphing into some dominant defense might be expecting a bit much.

And let's be honest, San Diego didn't win any more playoff games than we did last season.

I think that had to do with Phillip Rivers being more overrated then the defense was.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Wade/Ware

 

[The30YardSlant]

I want to hear everyone's favorite example of a new coach coming to town and motivating the players who may have underachieved to previously unknown heights.

Wait....

 

[gbrittain]

The offseason is here, and for every team, that means one thing - optimism. And trust me, I am fully excited about seeing our new look team out there next year. I've been admiring Ware as a fan, but it's about time he got the flashy stats to get the rest of the world to notice him.

One thing I've noticed, so far this offseason, is that there is a ton of optimism about how Wade is going to use certain players, who thus far have been a bit of a disappointment. Certainly an intriguing possibility, with guys like Marcus Spears and Julius Jones not quite living up to what we've expected so far. I've read threads about Julius being unleashed, Spears being used more effectively as a passrusher, 1600 yards for Julius.....and I've got to tell you - it's got me giddy.

So, what I figured we could do, as we sit and wait for OTAs, is use this thread to share our success stories. That's right - I want to hear everyone's favorite example of a new coach coming to town and motivating the players who may have underachieved to previously unknown heights. Share your examples of veteran players who suddenly bloomed under the new regime, and became significantly better.

This seems to be a pretty well accepted truth - so I'm guessing there's plenty of precedent. Go!

Funny...I thought most people around here were giddy about the possibility of drafting McFadden next year.

 

[Luther]

NEW YORK (Jan. 8, 2005) -- Marty Schottenheimer's guidance of one of the great turnarounds in NFL history won him The Associated Press 2004 NFL Coach of the Year award.
Schottenheimer took the San Diego Chargers from tailender to division champion, from a 4-12 embarrassment to a 12-4 power that was to host the New York Jets in a playoff game. The 61-year-old, who also has worked in Cleveland, Kansas City and Washington, did his best work of an 18½-season head coaching career.

BTW, that was also the first year in San Diego for Mr. Wade Phillips.

Feel good now Superpunk?

 

[superpunk]

NEW YORK (Jan. 8, 2005) -- Marty Schottenheimer's guidance of one of the great turnarounds in NFL history won him The Associated Press 2004 NFL Coach of the Year award.
Schottenheimer took the San Diego Chargers from tailender to division champion, from a 4-12 embarrassment to a 12-4 power that was to host the New York Jets in a playoff game. The 61-year-old, who also has worked in Cleveland, Kansas City and Washington, did his best work of an 18½-season head coaching career.

BTW, that was also the first year in San Diego for Mr. Wade Phillips.

Feel good now Superpunk?

lol....I feel pretty good about this season regardless. Probably not championship good, but pretty good.

I just find it interesting that in this thread, aside from Thumper's examples, which I am no judge of, there have been no real solid examples of individual players turning their careers around. There's always this talk, when a new coach comes to town, that these players who were previously unmotivated and disappointing are suddenly going to "get it." They're suddenly going to explode, and reach their potential because the new coach knows how to use them - the new coach has got them excited. This has been repeated as almost an absolute assurance over the past month.

However, precedent suggests that this is highly unlikely. There are examples of players who go to better teams, and suddenly we notice their talent more. There are examples of coaches turning franchises around in a short amount of time, by inspiration and by changing the team's attitude. But there are precious few (maybe even none, recently) examples of coaches coming to a team, unleashing some inner pheonix from these veteran players.

So what on earth is influencing our thinking? There's next to no precedent for this, whereas there is plenty of precedent for first-round disappointments getting new coaches....and continuing to be first round disappointments.

So yeah - I feel better about Wade Phillips, and the prospect of an attacking defense, that should be exciting to watch. Far more exciting than the defense we ran out there last year, no matter how effective it was for the first 11 games.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

Phillips has rarely inherited a defense and took a step back.

He's taken bad defenses and made them better.

But those expecting a quantum leap forward and a morphing into some dominant defense might be expecting a bit much.

And let's be honest, San Diego didn't win any more playoff games than we did last season.

Very good post and examples.......well said

 

[ENGCowboy]

What about Gurode he wasnt going anywhere early on then Parcells got on his *** and now hes ProBowl?Dunno if this qualifies as he was very raw but hought I might mention it.

and a quote from Wikipedia

When the Raiders signed Kerry Collins prior to the 2004 season, most thought that Gannon would be cut in favor of the strong armed Collins, whom skeptics thought was a better fit in new coach Norv Turner's vertical offense. Gannon not only kept his starting QB spot, but thrived. He threw for 305 yards in the season opener against Pittsburgh, including a 40 yard touchdown strike to Doug Gabriel, the Raiders nearly won the game over a Steelers team that finished the 2004 season with 15 victories. The Raiders were a competitive team with Gannon as their QB, and finished 5-11 after his career ending neck injury. When Gannon went, so did the Raiders' 2004 season.

 

[superpunk]

What about Gurode he wasnt going anywhere early on then Parcells got on his *** and now hes ProBowl?Dunno if this qualifies as he was very raw but hought I might mention it.

and a quote from Wikipedia

When the Raiders signed Kerry Collins prior to the 2004 season, most thought that Gannon would be cut in favor of the strong armed Collins, whom skeptics thought was a better fit in new coach Norv Turner's vertical offense. Gannon not only kept his starting QB spot, but thrived. He threw for 305 yards in the season opener against Pittsburgh, including a 40 yard touchdown strike to Doug Gabriel, the Raiders nearly won the game over a Steelers team that finished the 2004 season with 15 victories. The Raiders were a competitive team with Gannon as their QB, and finished 5-11 after his career ending neck injury. When Gannon went, so did the Raiders' 2004 season.

That is actually a good example, and just the sort of thing I was looking for. Gannon wasn't exactly a disappointment, but he was just some journeyman who wasn't distinguishing himself. The west coast offense seems to do that for some QBs.

Good find.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

SP, wouldn't it be simpler to just say that you miss Parcells and you think all this talk of players getting better under Wade is B.S.?

 

[superpunk]

SP, wouldn't it be simpler to just say that you miss Parcells and you think all this talk of players getting better under Wade is B.S.?

I don't really miss BP all that much - but I've said the second half about a billion times and noone gets it. Some of them may very well get better. Spears and Canty showed some accountability today in an article, and they're coming into that pivotal third year. That's highly preferable to some BS about Spears and Canty being "unleashed", as though the previous coaching staff wanted them to fail. This myth about the coaching change having magical powers to turn veteran disappointments into stunning playmakers has to be stopped. There is no reason to think that will happen.

It's not about personal feelings, preferences, or anything else. It's about logic, and using your noggin. So far, this thread has clearly demonstrated ( by lack of easily identifiable examples) that people's voodoo expectations have next to no base in reality, aside from the occasional success story.

 

[Vintage]

I don't really miss BP all that much - but I've said the second half about a billion times and noone gets it. Some of them may very well get better. Spears and Canty showed some accountability today in an article, and they're coming into that pivotal third year. That's highly preferable to some BS about Spears and Canty being "unleashed", as though the previous coaching staff wanted them to fail. This myth about the coaching change having magical powers to turn veteran disappointments into stunning playmakers has to be stopped. There is no reason to think that will happen.

It's not about personal feelings, preferences, or anything else. It's about logic, and using your noggin. So far, this thread has clearly demonstrated ( by lack of easily identifiable examples) that people's voodoo expectations have next to no base in reality, aside from the occasional success story.

I agree.

That's all Superpunk and I have wanted. Accountability. Our players have been making excuses based on the scheme for their poor play. Maybe the scheme didn't fit them like a glove; but they should have performed better than they did.

They didn't.

And Wade isn't going to fix them into being good unless they desire to put the extra work into it themselves.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

JMO, but I think you're exaggerating people's expectations. No one really expects Spears to turn into Reggie White. But do they think he can at least turn into Luis Castillo, a player productive enough to seem worthy of a first-round pick? Yes, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

I mean, look at when the Raiders went to a 34 and Warren Sapp's numbers went completely in the toilet. Sure, he was past his Tampa prime, but still, there's no doubt that he was put into a role that didn't suit his skills, even though he was still technically a defensive lineman.

And surely no one thinks Parcells *wanted* any of his players to fail. That doesn't mean he couldn't have been too inflexible or showed some poor judgement at times.

Oh, and Thumper's points about the pre-Jimmy undrafted O-linemen like Newton and Tuinei are totally legit... Not that I see any of those type situations happening now.

 

[superpunk]

JMO, but I think you're exaggerating people's expectations. No one really expects Spears to turn into Reggie White. But do they think he can at least turn into Luis Castillo, a player productive enough to seem worthy of a first-round pick? Yes, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

Certainly he can.

It's the reasoning behind how he's going to get better that is faulty. We haven't seen anything approaching that from Spears yet - IF it comes, it will be because he dedicated himself and took his game to a new level. Not because some magic wand was waved by the new staff, making him a better player and "using him correctly."

Spears probably will progress more this year, at least a little - third year, hopeulfly no injuries, maybe the excitement of a new staff has him a little more dedicated. But no scheme is going to amke him a better player by itself. Same goes for Julius Jones. No scheme can prevent you from running up your linemen's backs and being ineffective. It would be nice if we could move on from this hocus-pocus and try to find ACTUAL reasons why these players might improve.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I just don't agree with that. Of course players can be used in ways that don't suit their talents. Is that really arguable? Do you really think that the only way Spears will produce more is if he dedicates himself more?

Or is this semantics? I hear all the time that a pass rush makes corners better. I've always said that it doesn't really make them cover any better, it just might expose them less. Is that the kind of thing you're getting at?

 

[superpunk]

I just don't agree with that. Of course players can be used in ways that don't suit their talents. Is that really arguable? Do you really think that the only way Spears will produce more is if he dedicates himself more?

Or is this semantics? I hear all the time that a pass rush makes corners better. I've always said that it doesn't really make them cover any better, it just might expose them less. Is that the kind of thing you're getting at?

Does more production = better player? Spears might notch a few more sacks, Julius might gain 50 more yards, but does that make them any better? Or did they just get more opportunities?

Noone's saying Spears and Julius are disappointments because they were used wrong. They're disappointments because they don't get it done on the field. That's not going to change simply because we have a new coach.

If it did, there would be a laundry list of disappointing players who suddenly bloomed out from under the yoke of their previous staffs. However, as we've seen - that isn't the case. So there's not much reason to believe Spears and Julius (among others) will get any better because they're out from under Big Bad Parcells who had his thumb up his butt and had no idea how to use these players. It just doesn't make any sense, because it just doesn't happen. Players are what they are - there isn't a scheme in the world that can hide talent completely.