Broaddus: Finding Depth Was Defense's Key At OTA's

[Risen Star]

I'm not assuming either way, although I'm hoping for the best.

But, unlike some, I'll call it what it is, hope. But it's certainly not something you can tangibly point to as improvement.

Okay, then I'm assuming they'll be bad. Because their track record tells me so.

To me it's just a question of how bad.

 

[Stash]

First of all it wasn't the league's worst. Yards but not points and yes it matters although we were horrible I'll grant you that. You're still making assumptions. You assume because we were the 'worse' defense in the league we'll not be better because....yada.

"Yada". Nice attempt to minimize facts. Failed, but nice attempt. Fact is that a franchise worst defense now tries to improve without it's best three defenders. Not assumption, but facts.

I'm an arduous fan yet I'm also able to critique the club and see it for what it is. I often make comments that aren't positive. Replacing last year's Ware shouldn't be difficult. Maybe this year's. We'll see. It might be hard to replace Hatcher's production but it's not impossible for our sack total to increase along with all the other measurables for pressure. There are analogies with the LBers and DBs as well.

You're making several assumptions yet don't see it. I'm making assumptions that yes I hope are true but if we're healthy there is no reason we can't be a middle of the road defense. That's not overly optimistic at all but quite pragmatic.

Based in no supporting evidence? There's not much left but sheer optimism in your part. There's not a proven commodity that's been added to this defense that's better than what it's lost. That's the undeniable fact of the situation. Anything more is simply hoping for the best. I'm hoping too, but at least I'm admitting what it is, hope. And not simply a fan saying they just have to be better.

We only have to move up 4-5 spots to be in the middle third of the league. Why you think that's an impossible task and huge stretch is not reasonable IMO.

See facts above.

 

[Stash]

Okay, then I'm assuming they'll be bad. Because their track record tells me so.

To me it's just a question of how bad.

I definitely think offense will have to carry them.

My expectations are low for the defense. Just hoping they're not record-setting bad this year.

If they can do just that, the offense might be good enough to carry them to a decent season.

 

[waving monkey]

It's an assumption to think that any production from a cast of unknowns will lead to improvement.

The top talent from a year ago has already been lost. And now people are assuming a group of unknown quantities has to be better.

We can hope, but we shouldn't count on it or expect it.

Assumption are made daily in business hiring.The performance is not known at the time of the hire.But companies roll
and are successful or not on the assumptions of hires. not all hires are graded out as successful but are implicitly assumed
to grade out successfully over all. Good risk management works the laws of large numbers.
Lots of money is spent on this subject and investments would be critically lost otherwise

 

[jobberone]

"Yada". Nice attempt to minimize facts. Failed, but nice attempt. Fact is that a franchise worst defense now tries to improve without it's best three defenders. Not assumption, but facts.



Based in no supporting evidence? There's not much left but sheer optimism in your part. There's not a proven commodity that's been added to this defense that's better than what it's lost. That's the undeniable fact of the situation. Anything more is simply hoping for the best. I'm hoping too, but at least I'm admitting what it is, hope. And not simply a fan saying they just have to be better.



See facts above.

To summarize, you're saying the 26th defense in the league can't improve because it lost it's three best defenders.

Replacing Hatcher could be a problem. Replacing last year's Ware shouldn't be a problem at all. He had less than 650 snaps, played in 3/4 of the games but never more than 62 snaps primarily in the 50s each game with some lower all the way down to less than 20. He was injured almost all year when he did play. Lee played in a little over half the games with less than 90 tackles and no sacks. He played more than a little injured as well. While I consider him a good+ player that production is not hard to replace at all. A full season of snaps would be difficult if he's healthy.

So that's 1/3 of your 'facts'. The entire problem with last year was putting new guys in, retreads, scrubs off the street and new players playing a position for the first time.

Replacing that kind of 'production' is simple. We just need to have a reasonable amount of help and have players who got experience last year to continue to improve. That's discounting the scrubs we used last year not being needed again.

 

[Stash]

To summarize, you're saying the 26th defense in the league can't improve because it lost it's three best defenders.

Looks like more assumption on your part.

What I'm saying is that it cannot be assumed that the worst Cowboys defense in history has it's' work cut out for them, especially having lost their three best defenders, and it cannot simply be assumed that they will improve.

Replacing Hatcher could be a problem. Replacing last year's Ware shouldn't be a problem at all. He had less than 650 snaps, played in 3/4 of the games but never more than 62 snaps primarily in the 50s each game with some lower all the way down to less than 20. He was injured almost all year when he did play. Lee played in a little over half the games with less than 90 tackles and no sacks. He played more than a little injured as well. While I consider him a good+ player that production is not hard to replace at all. A full season of snaps would be difficult if he's healthy.

Fan goggles on full display. I guess it's all about the sticker on the helmet? When they're on the field for the Cowboys, they're the best in the world, but the minute they're not, "they weren't that good". The fact is that you once again fail to show a viable replacement for any of them but still assume the defense just has to improve.

So that's 1/3 of your 'facts'. The entire problem with last year was putting new guys in, retreads, scrubs off the street and new players playing a position for the first time.

Not true. The defense was torched from week one throughout the season. The injury excuse for all of their issues just doesn't add up.

Replacing that kind of 'production' is simple. We just need to have a reasonable amount of help and have players who got experience last year to continue to improve. That's discounting the scrubs we used last year not being needed again.

Yeah, real simple. Different names + star on helmet + hope = improvement.

 

[jobberone]

Looks like more assumption on your part.

What I'm saying is that it cannot be assumed that the worst Cowboys defense in history has it's' work cut out for them, especially having lost their three best defenders, and it cannot simply be assumed that they will improve.



Fan goggles on full display. I guess it's all about the sticker on the helmet? When they're on the field for the Cowboys, they're the best in the world, but the minute they're not, "they weren't that good". The fact is that you once again fail to show a viable replacement for any of them but still assume the defense just has to improve.

So that's 1/3 of your 'facts'. The entire problem with last year was putting new guys in, retreads, scrubs off the street and new players playing a position for the first time.

Not true. The defense was torched from week one throughout the season. The injury excuse for all of their issues just doesn't add up.

Replacing that kind of 'production' is simple. We just need to have a reasonable amount of help and have players who got experience last year to continue to improve. That's discounting the scrubs we used last year not being needed again.

Yeah, real simple. Different names + star on helmet + hope = improvement.

I quote facts and you retort with empty rhetoric and as Winicki says 'unfactual comments'. Have a good day.

 

[BlindFaith]

Maybe this had been discussed, but what is Wilson's problem with his position?

Not sure why Broadus keeps mentioning this. Wilson was a d end in high school. Top 5 coming out. They switched him to lb in college. He played mostly LB when at the Saints, but did play some DE towards the end of his rookie year. Theres an article out there were he discusses the switch amd that he was excited. He says he sees himself as a hall of fame type player.
I think hes one of those guys that have all the talent but no heart or work ethic. Sounds like he missed meetings and just didnt take football too seriously.
This is his last chance is the way I see it. Hopefully he sees it that way too.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I freely admit to being full of hope with the cast of characters we're trotting out there on defense. The important thing to me is that they're trotting out guys who actually belong in the NFL...and not sitting on the couch next to me.

 

[Proximo]

I'm not going to quote anyone directly, but just a couple things I wanted to add here:

First, trying to directly replace Ware and Hatcher shouldn't be the defese's #1 priority. It should be improving the line as a unit. We don't need DeMarcus Lawrence to be the new DeMarcus Ware. We don't need Henry Melton to be the new Jason Hatcher. What we need is for the 6 or 7 defensive lineman who get the majority of this year's snaps to be collectively better than the 6 or 7 guys who got those snaps last year. Considering the guys who were on the bottom of that list last year, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe we'll be better in 2014.

Secondly, I notice that many times when fans are comparing last season's defense to this upcoming year they're not at all considering the potential or likely improvement of already existing players and instead only focusing on the new faces. I think it's reasonable to believe that any number of the following players will either be better than they were last year or work themselves into the lineup and be better than the players who were there last season: Claiborne, Carr, Wilcox, Crawford, Bass, Carter, Holloman, Wilber. With Marinelli presumably being a better DC than Kiffin at this stage, plus these guys having another offseason in the 4-3, I think there could be significant improvement.

Just my opinion.

 

[DogFace]

It's an assumption to think that any production from a cast of unknowns will lead to improvement.

The top talent from a year ago has already been lost. And now people are assuming a group of unknown quantities has to be better.

We can hope, but we shouldn't count on it or expect it.

Why should we not count on it or expect it? Based on everything jobber said and marinelli being a better coordinator we can absolutely Expect and count on a better defense.
I am. So I guess you have to accept that.

 

[DogFace]

I'm not assuming either way, although I'm hoping for the best.

But, unlike some, I'll call it what it is, hope. But it's certainly not something you can tangibly point to as improvement.

Having fewer players injured isn't a tangible improvement? I think it is and the law of averages is on my teams side in staying healthier.

 

[jjktkk]

That's the bar Ware has set in his historic career. I expect him to be a terror in Denver this year.

But hey, without that release we wouldn't have gotten Jeremy Mincey.

Given that Ware has been battling injuries for a few years now, what evidence, if any, would lead you to believe that Ware will be a "terror" in Denver this year?

 

[Idgit]

Given that Ware has been battling injuries for a few years now, what evidence, if any, would lead you to believe that Ware will be a "terror" in Denver this year?

It's the Brett Favre effect. Also know. As a dead cat bounce, though that sounds pretty unflattering. I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a very good season, too. Especially early.

Still, it was the right time for Dallas to part ways with him, given the salary he still commands for the production we were likely to get from him in Dallas.

 

[Proximo]

It's the Brett Favre effect. Also know. As a dead cat bounce, though that sounds pretty unflattering. I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a very good season, too. Especially early.

Still, it was the right time for Dallas to part ways with him, given the salary he still commands for the production we were likely to get from him in Dallas.

You know, I actually still find myself having mixed feelings about releasing Ware. On hand one, I want to believe his tank isn't empty yet. But I think I would've been most satisfied if he would've stayed at a reduced salary and reduced snaps. Being more of a rotation guy instead of having the "star" expectation. I think he would've been effective that way (assuming all of our other offseason moves were the same).

As far as him in Denver, I really don't know what to expect. He could have a monster year or another year of injuries resulting in continued declining play/impact. I won't be surprised either way.

 

[xwalker]

Not sure why Broadus keeps mentioning this. Wilson was a d end in high school. Top 5 coming out. They switched him to lb in college. He played mostly LB when at the Saints, but did play some DE towards the end of his rookie year. Theres an article out there were he discusses the switch amd that he was excited. He says he sees himself as a hall of fame type player.
I think hes one of those guys that have all the talent but no heart or work ethic. Sounds like he missed meetings and just didnt take football too seriously.
This is his last chance is the way I see it. Hopefully he sees it that way too.

Overall I like Broaddus; however, he says a lot of things that don't really make sense because he just writes what's on his mind without considering that the readers don't have the back-story.

I think this issue all goes back to Wilson making 1 comment that he feels more comfortable at LB. I really wonder if he is mixing up comments from Wilson and Wilber because I did hear Wilber say that he prefers LB to DE.

 

[Stash]

I quote facts and you retort with empty rhetoric and as Winicki says 'unfactual comments'. Have a good day.

No 'facts' in anything you've posted.

But you have a good day too.

 

[xwalker]

Based in no supporting evidence? There's not much left but sheer optimism in your part. There's not a proven commodity that's been added to this defense that's better than what it's lost. That's the undeniable fact of the situation. Anything more is simply hoping for the best. I'm hoping too, but at least I'm admitting what it is, hope. And not simply a fan saying they just have to be better.

My take on the defense:

Secondary:
The Secondary should be the same or better. Wilcox is now in his 2nd year. The backups are likely 2nd year guys like Heath and Hamilton which should be better than the same players as rookies. The CBs shouldn't be any worse. Claiborne is healthy which should help even if he is only the 3rd CB, he is much better than having Webb as the 3rd CB.

Linebackers:
As compared to last part of the season after Lee was gone the 2014 LBs should be at least slightly better. Durant was gone 1 quarter after Lee was gone for the season. Holloman was a rookie that missed many games with an injury. Carter seems to be a slow learner and should be at least slightly better. Wilber was decent and now will have a full training camp of playing LB. There were times in 2013 that Orie Lemon and Cameron Lawrence were playing.

DLine:
The starting DTs were Hatcher and Hayden. Hatcher was really good but Hayden was terrible. I think that the combination of Melton and McClain can be at least as good as Hatcher/Hayden. I've studied McClain from past years. He was not ready as a rookie in 2011 and by the time that he had developed into a good player he was the backup NT on a 3-4 team which prevented him from having good stats; however, watching him in 2013 I have no doubt that he is a significant upgrade from Hayden.

One of the starting DEs was Selvie. I would expect him to be slightly better with a 2nd year in the scheme.

Ware missed 3 starts and played very limited snaps in several other games. The primary backups were Everette Brown and Kyle Wilber with several other players in the mix. Wilber is now a LB and they didn't even like Brown enough to keep him on the 90 man roster. It appears that the WDEs will be Lawrence and Mincey. Selvie might play there some also if Crawford plays more SDE than 3-tech DT. Mincey has been successful in the NFL and might not be great, but is probably a big upgrade from Brown and Wilber. I'm sure that Lawrence won't be as good as Ware was when healthy but that was only for the 1st few games of the season. The real question becomes a healthy Lawrence vs what Ware was for the majority of the season.

The backup DL should be better. I'll take guys like Crawford with a full training camp over street guys like Dawkins that had the play the same week that they were signed and were not with the team in training camp.

Overall Defense:
The biggest upgrade will be having the same players in the games that were in training camp. In 2013, even if the huge number of street free agent that were brought in had significant talent, it really wouldn't have mattered because it was impossible to have a cohesive unit with multiple new players coming in almost every week.

The 2nd biggest upgrade is the fact that it's the 2nd year in the 4-3 scheme and they've acquired players that they like specifically for the scheme. Not only should players like Carter improve due to more experience in the scheme, but the coaches will have a much better idea of how to use the players to their strengths.

Summary:
IMO, it comes down to health again. If everybody stays healthy, they should be better.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It's the Brett Favre effect. Also know. As a dead cat bounce, though that sounds pretty unflattering. I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a very good season, too. Especially early.

I would expect Ware to start the season like a house on fire.

If you were to split the last 3 seasons into 4 game segments and denote the number of sacks during that 4 game segment, Ware's last three seasons would look like this:

1st 4 games - 14 sacks
2nd 4 games - 13 sacks
3rd 4 games - 5 sacks
4th 4 games - 8 sacks

 

[xwalker]

It's the Brett Favre effect. Also know. As a dead cat bounce, though that sounds pretty unflattering. I'd be surprised if he doesn't have a very good season, too. Especially early.

Still, it was the right time for Dallas to part ways with him, given the salary he still commands for the production we were likely to get from him in Dallas.

I would expect Ware to start the season like a house on fire.

If you were to split the last 3 seasons into 4 game segments and denote the number of sacks during that 4 game segment, Ware's last three seasons would look like this:

1st 4 games - 14 sacks
2nd 4 games - 13 sacks
3rd 4 games - 5 sacks
4th 4 games - 8 sacks

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ware have a good season; however, regardless of how good he is in 2014, cutting him was the correct decision for the Cowboys.