Byron Jones or Amari Cooper?

[mattjames2010]

You’re a Dak hater and nothing that’s said is going to convince you. When a QB is having to pass for multiple 400 yard games they’re doing some carrying. When a QB is pushing 5000 yards a lot is being put on them.

I have no "hate" for Dak as a player, I find him middling. I hate ACCEPTING mediocrity, but that "hate" is directed to Jerry Jones and fans that constantly accept mediocrity. As for his "multiple 400 yard games"

First 400 yard game came against the Giants, when the defense gave up 17 points. Second came against the Packers when Prescott threw three INTs, and the third against the Lions. His two other 300 yard games came against the Bills, Bears, and Minnesota. Two of those games were garbage time when our offense couldn't do crap all game, the Minnesota game was probably Dak's best game of the year, and about the only game you have a case for.

Our biggest problem on offense was Dak's inability to score in the red zone.

 

[KJJ]

Wrong.


Tell me the last elite WR to win a Super Bowl

Elite receivers don’t win Super Bowl’s QBs do. Most of the contending teams that are competing for Super Bowls have at least one elite receiver either a WR or a TE. Philly’s #1 receiver is an elite TE. That helped keep them in contention despite all their injuries at receiver.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Julian Edelman.

Edelman is elite? Hes not a top 10 receiver in this league

 

[KJJ]

I have no "hate" for Dak as a player, I find him middling. I hate ACCEPTING mediocrity, but that "hate" is directed to Jerry Jones and fans that constantly accept mediocrity. As for his "multiple 400 yard games"

First 400 yard game came against the Giants, when the defense gave up 17 points. Second came against the Packers when Prescott threw three INTs, and the third against the Lions. His two other 300 yard games came against the Bills, Bears, and Minnesota. Two of those games were garbage time when our offense couldn't do crap all game, the Minnesota game was probably Dak's best game of the year, and about the only game you have a case for.

Our biggest problem on offense was Dak's inability to score in the red zone.

What QB that will be “available” will be a better option than Dak? We had one of the top offenses statistically in the entire league last season and the production of our QB was the main reason. He moves the chains with his arm and his legs. He may not be perfect but he’s a very good QB and he’s good enough to win a championship with.

 

[kskboys]

Edelman is elite? Hes not a top 10 receiver in this league

Yes, he is. He gets open and catches the ball better than any WR in the league. That is elite.

 

[mattjames2010]

George Kittle set a record for receiving yards for a TE. And Deebo is a load.

The receiving threat does not necessarily hv to be a WR, but any QB must have guys who can get open.

Wilson lost due to not having better WR's. Jackson can't throw at an NFL level. Tannehill is a bus driver.

You cannot rate QB's using only QBR. Guys who just toss short stuff and dont' have to make plays will have a higher rating than they deserve.

George Kittle had a little over 1,000 yards this year, let's settle down like this is what got the 49ers offense over the top. TEs are important and good receiving TE's are an obvious luxury, but even they are getting overrated as receivers now. They also don't win you Super Bowls.

 

[mattjames2010]

What QB that will be “available” will be a better option than Dak?

Most middling QBs can get their teams to 9-7 and 8-8 seasons. Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, or even Derek Carr can do this for far cheaper. This is not a claim they are BETTER than Dak, the argument is that Dak isn't good enough to elevate a team to deserve elite QB money. Mediocre players will give you mediocre results. If you're wanting that, might as well go the bargain bin without hurting the cap room.

 

[Creeper]

These debates always tend to go off into discussions of performance and productivity without consideration for costs and cap impact. I started the thread as more of a discussion of the cost/value and cap impact. As I mentioned, WRs are more expensive, on average, than CBs and have a greater cap impact. Keeping Cooper will probably cost the Cowboys somewhere between $17 million and $18 million per year for 5 years with about $50 million of that guaranteed. Its hard to put a figure on Jones, but I imagine he will cost around $15 million per year or $75 million for 5 years with maybe $40 million guaranteed. Jones could be had for less because his record of no interceptions works against him. But we all know some team like the Giants will come along and offer him some ridiculous contract, like 5 years at $90 million or something like that. I am looking at the Giants because they won;t have to pay a QB for another 3 years.

In any case, GMs have to make value decisions giving consideration to backfilling talent. My thinking is, I don't know if the Cowboys will ever get the value out of Cooper they will pay for. He's good - and then he disappears. I want guys who play their best games when there is a lot on the line whether its QB, WR, RB, OL, DL or CB. Perhaps the answer is, let them both go and save $33 million a year for other positions and other players.

 

[KJJ]

Most middling QBs can get their teams to 9-7 and 8-8 seasons. Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, or even Derek Carr can do this for far cheaper. This is not a claim they are BETTER than Dak, the argument is that Dak isn't good enough to elevate a team to deserve elite QB money. Mediocre players will give you mediocre results. If you're wanting that, might as well go the bargain bin without hurting the cap room.

You’re kidding yourself if you think Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Derek Carr could lead the Cowboys to a championship. They’re all flawed and two of them are backups. The Raiders will eventually give up on Carr unless he becomes consistent. The QB we have is better than those QBs. It’s mine boggling how many would rather have Mariota than Dak. Go check out his career numbers. Lol He’s only had two seasons of over 3000 yards passing.

 

[WillieBeamen]

George Kittle set a record for receiving yards for a TE. And Deebo is a load.

The receiving threat does not necessarily hv to be a WR, but any QB must have guys who can get open.

Wilson lost due to not having better WR's. Jackson can't throw at an NFL level. Tannehill is a bus driver.

You cannot rate QB's using only QBR. Guys who just toss short stuff and dont' have to make plays will have a higher rating than they deserve.

Wow there are a lot of bad takes in this post...

1. Kittle is a Tight End. Tight Ends are paid substantially lower than receivers. Lower pay == ability to strengthen other areas to improve your overall team

2. Deebo is a load but nowhere near a top receiver, yet

3. Wilson didnt lose because he didnt have better receivers. He lost because he had poor pass protection and his defense couldnt get off the field on third down

4. I am certainly not rating QBs by QBR or passer rating for that matter (Obviously Dak is top 10 in both stats, but nowhere near that in my personal ranking). I simply took the traditional way QB performance has been measured and showing that top WRs arent “needed”. In fact if you use ANY qb stat, the top 10 in almost any stat will show that a top receiver isnt needed

 

[WillieBeamen]

Elite receivers don’t win Super Bowl’s QBs do. Most of the contending teams that are competing for Super Bowls have at least one elite receiver either a WR or a TE. Philly’s #1 receiver is an elite TE. That helped keep them in contention despite all their injuries at receiver.

Wait so let me get this straight.

You said most top QBs have an elite receiver, yet none of these same receivers have won Super Bowls?

Weird.

 

[Rayman70]

amari

 

[mattjames2010]

You’re kidding yourself if you think Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota or Derek Carr could lead the Cowboys to a championship. They’re all flawed and two of them are backups. The Raiders will eventually give up on Carr unless he becomes consistent. The QB we have is better than those QBs. It’s mine boggling how many would rather have Mariota than Dak. Go check out his career numbers. Lol He’s only had two seasons of over 3000 yards passing.

Did you actually try to read what was said? I said those QBs will give us similar results to what Dak has given us lol Nowhere did I suggest we'd get to a championship with them.

What will happen? We'll go 6-10 or 7-9 and miss the playoffs....like we have in 2017 and 2019? Maybe we'll go 9-7/10-6 and make the playoffs due to the division being weak? And Dak isn't getting us to a Championship/Winning one either. So what the hell are you paying him for?

 

[KJJ]

Wait so let me get this straight.

You said most top QBs have an elite receiver, yet none of these same receivers have won Super Bowls?

Weird.

Receivers don’t win Super Bowl’s on their own that’s what I’m telling you. Brady won the Super Bowl last season with Edelman and Gronk both elite receivers. Remove Gronk from the equation and the Pats passing game struggled this past season.

 

[mattjames2010]

Receivers don’t win Super Bowl’s on their own that’s what I’m telling you. Brady won the Super Bowl last season with Edelman and Gronk both elite receivers. Remove Gronk from the equation and the Pats passing game struggled this past season.

Edelman isn't an elite receiver and Brady/Belichick have won Super Bowls without much of anything on offense in the past. Patriots won 6 Super Bowls because of two legendary NFL people coming together. Everyone else in NE are just along for the ride.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Receivers don’t win Super Bowl’s on their own that’s what I’m telling you. Brady won the Super Bowl last season with Edelman and Gronk both elite receivers. Remove Gronk from the equation and the Pats passing game struggled this past season.

That wasnt my question


When was the last Elite WR that was on a Super Bowl winning team?

 

[KJJ]

Did you actually try to read what was said? I said those QBs will give us similar results to what Dak has given us lol Nowhere did I suggest we'd get to a championship with them.

What will happen? We'll go 6-10 or 7-9 and miss the playoffs....like we have in 2017 and 2019? Maybe we'll go 9-7/10-6 and make the playoffs due to the division being weak? And Dak isn't getting us to a Championship/Winning one either. So what the hell are you paying him for?

Did you actually read what I said? I wanted you to list QBs that would be “available” that would be a better option and Carr won’t be available. He’s the Raiders starter. It’s easy for any fan to say that those quarterbacks would give us similar results. You may believe that but I don’t!

 

[KJJ]

That wasnt my question


When was the last Elite WR that was on a Super Bowl winning team?

Last year Julian Edelman won a SB with the Pats. He’s considered an elite WR. Some consider him a HOF WR.

 

[KJJ]

Edelman isn't an elite receiver and Brady/Belichick have won Super Bowls without much of anything on offense in the past. Patriots won 6 Super Bowls because of two legendary NFL people coming together. Everyone else in NE are just along for the ride.

Many consider Edelman an elite WR. He’s had three 1000 yard seasons including this past season and only Jerry Rice has better playoff numbers. His playoff numbers have him as a strong candidate for the HOF. The patriots have had great offenses that’s what’s won them their SB’s. Their offense wasn’t very good this season.

 

[mattjames2010]

Did you actually read what I said? I wanted you to list QBs that would be “available” that would be a better option and Carr won’t be available. He’s the Raiders starter. It’s easy for any fan to say that those quarterbacks would give us similar results. You may believe that but I don’t!

That's not all you said, you specifically said "You're kidding if you think those QBs could lead Cowboys to a championship" - Dak never has, so this is moot. We got to a couple divisional rounds and miss the playoffs twice, that's with talent around him.

So again, what are you going to pay him elite money for?