BYU DT Tonga

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well, we get a lot of BYU games out my way, as some may know. I've watched this guy play some, he is not just a hold the line NT. Yes, this guy can do that but he has some mobility going on as well. He is raw and he needs to be taught how to refine certain areas of his game but in terms of natural talent, he's pretty amazing IMO. He has Vea Vita type natural abilities IMO. The question is, can you teach him to reach that potential and will he actually be a 5th round pick, cause I suspect he's going to move up the boards.

JMO

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No they're not. If a guy is slow but faster than the fat guys, he's still slow.

I don't care where he ranks among 330 lbers. There's like 5 of those guys in the NFL. He also plays at 320, not 330. He's not nearly the athlete of, say, Da'Ron Payne.

Tonga's a standard 5th round pick, there's nothing spectacular about him as an athlete, especially given his age because there's no real development to come. He's just a standard 1T plug.

BYU listed him at 325. Dude is not a belly and butt guy either. He is proportional. IOW, he can but on weight and not looses athleticism.

You need to learn about how acceleration is a function of force times mass and how momentum works as mass in in motion. Being the quickest big man is meaningful even f you cannot see it.

There is a reason why a 200 lbs athlete that can run a 4.3 is a great athlete while so is one who at 290 lbs can run it half a second slower. That scale keeps going as you add weight.

He has to be as quick as the 100 or more 315 lb interior linemen not your 290 lb linemen ideal.

 

[Future]

BYU listed him at 325. Dude is not a belly and butt guy either. He is proportional. IOW, he can but on weight and not looses athleticism.

You need to learn about how acceleration is a function of force times mass and how momentum works as mass in in motion. Being the quickest big man is meaningful even f you cannot see it.

There is a reason why a 200 lbs athlete that can run a 4.3 is a great athlete while so is one who at 290 lbs can run it half a second slower. That scale keeps going as you add weight.

He has to be as quick as the 100 or more 315 lb interior linemen not your 290 lb linemen ideal.

Ok and in 2019 he was trying to get down to 319 because he was too slow at a heavier weight. So no, he can't put on weight and play, at least not based on what he did in college. https://www.deseret.com/2019/7/7/89...ards-stadium-in-provo-on-saturday-oct-13-2018

Lol I don't need a science lesson. Momentum doesn't matter in this context because there's no functional difference, in-game. The quicker 310lb guy is going to be far more effective than a slower 320lb guy, even if the 320 can generate more momentum. There's too much technique and quick-twitch get off required for that to matter.

Being as quick as a 315lb lineman at 320lbs is a meaningless distinction.

But again, and more importantly, you're just overrating how explosive he is. He's an average athlete who has good tape as an over-age college player against subpar competition. It's not like he's uniquely athletic. 315, 325, 335 it doesn't matter - he's not a superior athlete to NFL DTs.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ok and in 2019 he was trying to get down to 319 because he was too slow at a heavier weight. So no, he can't put on weight and play, at least not based on what he did in college. https://www.deseret.com/2019/7/7/89...ards-stadium-in-provo-on-saturday-oct-13-2018

Lol I don't need a science lesson. Momentum doesn't matter in this context because there's no functional difference, in-game. The quicker 310lb guy is going to be far more effective than a slower 320lb guy, even if the 320 can generate more momentum. There's too much technique and quick-twitch get off required for that to matter.

Being as quick as a 315lb lineman at 320lbs is a meaningless distinction.

But again, and more importantly, you're just overrating how explosive he is. He's an average athlete who has good tape as an over-age college player against subpar competition. It's not like he's uniquely athletic. 315, 325, 335 it doesn't matter - he's not a superior athlete to NFL DTs.

Quote me the portion off that article that states that he is quicker at 5 lbs less. I won't hold my breath.

More momentum has no functional difference?

And sorry but he does not have "good tape." He is clearly still learning his hand and footwork. I have watched two games of him and see potential not a finished product. Thus my day 3 grade. If he was polished he would be regarded like Vita Vea.

 

[Bigdog]

Well, we get a lot of BYU games out my way, as some may know. I've watched this guy play some, he is not just a hold the line NT. Yes, this guy can do that but he has some mobility going on as well. He is raw and he needs to be taught how to refine certain areas of his game but in terms of natural talent, he's pretty amazing IMO. He has Vea Vita type natural abilities IMO. The question is, can you teach him to reach that potential and will he actually be a 5th round pick, cause I suspect he's going to move up the boards.

JMO

Thanks for the input. I like this guy and from what I read I would pick him in the later rounds.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ok and in 2019 he was trying to get down to 319 because he was too slow at a heavier weight. So no, he can't put on weight and play, at least not based on what he did in college. https://www.deseret.com/2019/7/7/89...ards-stadium-in-provo-on-saturday-oct-13-2018

Lol I don't need a science lesson. Momentum doesn't matter in this context because there's no functional difference, in-game. The quicker 310lb guy is going to be far more effective than a slower 320lb guy, even if the 320 can generate more momentum. There's too much technique and quick-twitch get off required for that to matter.

Being as quick as a 315lb lineman at 320lbs is a meaningless distinction.

But again, and more importantly, you're just overrating how explosive he is. He's an average athlete who has good tape as an over-age college player against subpar competition. It's not like he's uniquely athletic. 315, 325, 335 it doesn't matter - he's not a superior athlete to NFL DTs.

I don't agree here because this discounts scheme. So yes, depending on what you are looking for out of your player, some of this is applicable. If your scheme requires your front 4 to both, tie up OLs and have some ability to get penetration or chase down the ball in short area, like our scheme will, then this ability to be a hybrid, so to speak, becomes very valuable. I think we are looking at this a little to linear.

I think it's important to understand that there are different roles that will need to be fit in this scheme. We all talk about LEO and NT/0 but there are two other positions that will need to be filled. The other DT OR 1Tech is going to need to be a guy who can both stonewall and do some two gap responsibilities and this is where I see a big, physical guy who can also move a little bit, be invaluable. Of course, the other position is the Strong Side DE. That guy is a Derek Wolfe type player. That's the type of player that we are looking for there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Thanks for the input. I like this guy and from what I read I would pick him in the later rounds.

Hey Bigdog, how you doing?

Yeah, this guy, he doesn't stay blocked. It's kinda weird, if he gets chest up on you, he's by you. Now, he's playing against guys that are not as strong and not as technically sound as the guys he will see at the next level but, he's not a finished product either. He has not yet learned how to use his hands as well as he could, he has not been taught how to dip how to use the rip, lots of different techniques that will help him a lot as his game progresses but bottom line, he's strong and if he gets into you at all, he's got good enough lateral movement and quickness to get you off balance and then he just muscles you out. Put that together with some of these other things and he can be a load. Now, I don't know if he can make that next step he will need to because the physical is not enough but, if he can, he's valuable. If he can't, he can still be a 0Tech and just stonewall and anchor for a team that needs that. That's not his ceiling, that's his floor IMO. He's gonna play at 335/340 in the league and if he's just that, that's probably 5 or 6 season you can get out of him at a very high level and then maybe a few years of rotation type play that is still valuable and then he's probably done, if all he is is a 0 or 1. So, what do you spend for that guy? To me, the floor is worth a 5th, at least but the ceiling, that's significantly higher IMO. I think teams are going to look at it that way and his stock will go up. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get that guy in the 5th or 6th but I just think his stock will rise.

JMO

 

[Bigdog]

Hey Bigdog, how you doing?

Yeah, this guy, he doesn't stay blocked. It's kinda weird, if he gets chest up on you, he's by you. Now, he's playing against guys that are not as strong and not as technically sound as the guys he will see at the next level but, he's not a finished product either. He has not yet learned how to use his hands as well as he could, he has not been taught how to dip how to use the rip, lots of different techniques that will help him a lot as his game progresses but bottom line, he's strong and if he gets into you at all, he's got good enough lateral movement and quickness to get you off balance and then he just muscles you out. Put that together with some of these other things and he can be a load. Now, I don't know if he can make that next step he will need to because the physical is not enough but, if he can, he's valuable. If he can't, he can still be a 0Tech and just stonewall and anchor for a team that needs that. That's not his ceiling, that's his floor IMO. He's gonna play at 335/340 in the league and if he's just that, that's probably 5 or 6 season you can get out of him at a very high level and then maybe a few years of rotation type play that is still valuable and then he's probably done, if all he is is a 0 or 1. So, what do you spend for that guy? To me, the floor is worth a 5th, at least but the ceiling, that's significantly higher IMO. I think teams are going to look at it that way and his stock will go up. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get that guy in the 5th or 6th but I just think his stock will rise.

JMO

I am doing well. Thanks for asking. How are you doing? Thanks for the analysis. I watched him play just once but I was more interested in watching Wilson than him. I think it was against Boise St. The only thing I remember is this guy was a load and hard to move at least the Boise St OL had a difficult time in the game. I am hoping to get him and there is a kid from Oregon who I read is very good or maybe Slayton from FL but in the later rounds. Shelvin from LSU and McNeil from NC St also look good but I think we have to get them in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I rather use those picks on other positions. Would not mind this kid and any of the ones I have mention.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am doing well. Thanks for asking. How are you doing? Thanks for the analysis. I watched him play just once but I was more interested in watching Wilson than him. I think it was against Boise St. The only thing I remember is this guy was a load and hard to move at least the Boise St OL had a difficult time in the game. I am hoping to get him and there is a kid from Oregon who I read is very good or maybe Slayton from FL but in the later rounds. Shelvin from LSU and McNeil from NC St also look good but I think we have to get them in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. I rather use those picks on other positions. Would not mind this kid and any of the ones I have mention.

Doing OK, got my vaccine yesterday so not completely normal but close enough for Government Work!

Yeah, the Oregon guy, I'm guessing here, is Jordan Scott.

 

[Bigdog]

Doing OK, got my vaccine yesterday so not completely normal but close enough for Government Work!

Yeah, the Oregon guy, I'm guessing here, is Jordan Scott.

Good to hear. I got my shot last week. The JJ one and had no side effects. Yes, Jordan Scott is the kids name. Thanks

 

[timb2]

Quote me the portion off that article that states that he is quicker at 5 lbs less. I won't hold my breath.

More momentum has no functional difference?

And sorry but he does not have "good tape." He is clearly still learning his hand and footwork. I have watched two games of him and see potential not a finished product. Thus my day 3 grade. If he was polished he would be regarded like Vita Vea.

Debbie Downer he is at it again,just negative posts Fuzzylumpkins Tonga has good ability for a big man. Don't sweat Debbie Downer and his negative crap. Tonga is a potential Day 2- Day 3 for sure pick who makes the Pros. Debbie just likes to get a rise out of people.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good to hear. I got my shot last week. The JJ one and had no side effects. Yes, Jordan Scott is the kids name. Thanks

I get the second shot in April, I think. So, I got a few days to go still. I got Moderna, I think.

Always welcome BD.

 

[Bigdog]

Debbie Downer he is at it again,just negative posts Fuzzylumpkins Tonga has good ability for a big man. Don't sweat Debbie Downer and his negative crap. Tonga is a potential Day 2- Day 3 for sure pick who makes the Pros. Debbie just likes to get a rise out of people.

Timb2 I think we need to be quiet about him. Don't want him to go Day 2. I was thinking more Day 3 maybe in the 5th or 6th round for us but probably not going to happen though.

 

[Future]

Debbie Downer he is at it again,just negative posts Fuzzylumpkins Tonga has good ability for a big man. Don't sweat Debbie Downer and his negative crap. Tonga is a potential Day 2- Day 3 for sure pick who makes the Pros. Debbie just likes to get a rise out of people.

Quit crying. I don't do that, I say what I think about players.

 

[Future]

Quote me the portion off that article that states that he is quicker at 5 lbs less. I won't hold my breath.

More momentum has no functional difference?

And sorry but he does not have "good tape." He is clearly still learning his hand and footwork. I have watched two games of him and see potential not a finished product. Thus my day 3 grade. If he was polished he would be regarded like Vita Vea.

Ummm "I feel way stronger in the weight room, but most of all I feel so much faster," Tonga added. "I played at around 350 last year, and at the time I didn't realize how much better it would be if I lost weight. I can see that difference now and it's night and day. I just can't wait to see what it is in pads when we finally get to play for real."

Not in such small spaces, with such small variance in weight.

Ok so then your whole thing is take a raw prospect based on his upside, not accounting for age. That's something

 

[stilltheguru]

Quit crying. I don't do that, I say what I think about players.

 

[timb2]

Quit crying. I don't do that, I say what I think about players.

You know your name.

 

[Future]

You know your name.

Yes and you're not clever enough to be inconspicuous.

 

[timb2]

Yes and you're not clever enough to be inconspicuous.

GO AWAY RAIN CLOUD COME BACK ANOTHER DAY

 

[Beaker42]

I love this guy on day 3. I like him better than quite a few guys labeled day 2. Size, arm length, natural bend and flexibility, body control, strength, burst, year to year improvement, awareness, and finish are all there.

Meh. Absolutely no explosion off the line gives the C/G plenty of time to set up. Pass. Give me Tufele or McNeill.