California running back Marshawn Lynch

[WV Cowboy]

Let's see what Jones and MBIII can do this season under Garrett and then grab Steve Slaton next year in the draft.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Well that is a matter of opinion. I think he's a WOW player. I think he'll prove you wrong on Sundays. Who knows what Jerry thinks, and thats all that really matters.

If he goes to GB, he may not.

 

[CF74]

unless it means they'll have to sell their $75 Julius Jones jersey in a garage sale for $5.

My poor poor wife

but in all seriousness I'm willing to wait till next year on JJ...

 

[YosemiteSam]

Frank Gore produced over 2100 total yards running behind a guy who was starting in the Arena Football League the year before and this...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_7PAlyMQnzI

Frank Gore produced over 2100 yards running behind a guy that is considered one of the best offensive linemen to ever play the game.

Steven Jackson led the league in total yards last year, and the St. Louis offensive line was nothing more than adequate.

Isn't this the same team that had Marshal Faulk produce the same type of all around numbers? So, I guess that means Jackson is as great as Faulk. Either that or the offensive line had something to do with it and maybe they are a bit better as a team rather than individually. Sort of the way the Cowboys defensive line was during the early to mid 90s. Anyhow, I digress from this one. Jackson is a good back, and their offense wasn't in the top ten of anything. The yard they got had to come from somewhere...

Meanwhile, it doesn't matter how good your offensive line is, if your RB is average your running game is going to be average. We had arguably the best OL in the history of the NFL in the mid-late 90's. How good did they make Derrick Lassic look? How good did they make Sherman Williams look?

It doesn't? Then explain Edgerrin James' going from the Colts to the Cardinals having around 350 less yards on with more games played and TDs cut in half, and averaging almost a yard less per carry?

Lassic was a 4th round pick with a total of 75 attempts in his entire career, and Williams had 302 over his four year career and most of the attemps came after the 1996 season. Neither is a fair comparision. Both guys were drafted as backups to Emmitt. Lynch will not be drafted as a backup.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Please, are you saying Frank Gore got his yards because of Larry Allen and Steven Jackson got his yards becasue he played for Marshall Faulk's offensive line and systme.

This isn't 2001. Larry Allen missed a huge chunk of the seeason and 49er fans are already hoping that he retires already because he was so bad when he played. Orlando Pace is the only player from left over from that Marshall Faulk line, he was put on IR halfway through the season and they aren't even running the same offensive system anymore.

 

[B Smooth]

I think Lynch will be a stud, but he will be gone by 22. I would bet that the Cowboys will trade back.

 

[dbair1967]

How would everyone feel if the commissioner steps up to the podium and announces "With the 22nd pick in the 2007 NFL Draft the Dallas Cowboys select California running back Marshawn Lynch."??????????????

Just thought I'd throw that out there because from everything I am hearing and reading that just might be where Dallas is heading.

I havent heard anything about them liking Lynch at all

I'll even bet on it...he isnt going to be a Cowboy

David

 

[jdnoyes]

I havent heard anything about them liking Lynch at all

I'll even bet on it...he isnt going to be a Cowboy

David

http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2007/april/19

"Character questions have followed California running back Marshawn Lynch, a projected first-round pick. Lynch already has visited or met with the Cleveland Browns, Baltimore Ravens, Tennessee Titans, Dallas Cowboys and Atlanta Falcons. Teams told Lynch's agents that their character questions had been answered, and each is comfortable with what it heard. Lynch is expected to be the second running back drafted, behind Oklahoma's Adrian Peterson."

I'm not saying that means they are going to draft him, nor do I think he has much of a shot to be there at 22. And really there are other guys who i'd be just as happy with at 22, so don't get me wrong i'm not a Lynch or bust guy. I don't think they would've brought in a guy they didn't like though. I'm not putting money on it but if you add it up you could make a case for a WOW player, who would very likely be the day one starter, who just happens to play on the offensive side of the ball, who the Cowboys obviously are interested in because they brought him in for a visit. Conspiracy theory? Sure Likely? No, but what is this year? Possible? Sure why not.

 

[dbair1967]

http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2007/april/19

"Character questions have followed California running back Marshawn Lynch, a projected first-round pick. Lynch already has visited or met with the Cleveland Browns, Baltimore Ravens, Tennessee Titans, Dallas Cowboys and Atlanta Falcons. Teams told Lynch's agents that their character questions had been answered, and each is comfortable with what it heard. Lynch is expected to be the second running back drafted, behind Oklahoma's Adrian Peterson."

I'm not saying that means they are going to draft him, nor do I think he has much of a shot to be there at 22. And really there are other guys who i'd be just as happy with at 22, so don't get me wrong i'm not a Lynch or bust guy. I don't think they would've brought in a guy they didn't like though. I'm not putting money on it but if you add it up you could make a case for a WOW player, who would very likely be the day one starter, who just happens to play on the offensive side of the ball, who the Cowboys obviously are interested in because they brought him in for a visit. Conspiracy theory? Sure Likely? No, but what is this year? Possible? Sure why not.

guess it depends on what you think a "wow" player is...Lynch looks like a good but no better than average prospect and is certainly not a sure thign to be any kind of improvement over what we have...now Adrian Peterson is a differenct story

David

 

[BouncingCheese]

I would scream at the T.V. and curse Jerrah if we pick him (which we will not); Cal running backs and qb's are products of thier systems more than anything else...I keep saying this over and over. Let me name a few players from cal who were supposed to be "NFL ready:laugh1: " Kyle Boller, Aaron Rogers, J.J. Arrington.

I don't need to say anything about Boller, he is an albatross, Aarron Rogers is plain bad, and J.J. Arrington, the NCAA's leading rusher his last year in college with 2,000 yards? http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?statsId=7220
"News: J.J. Arrington was clearly behind Marcel Shipp on the depth chart at the Cardinals; first minicamp" He is behing Michael Shipp???

Besides that, He has a lower back disk injury that worries me, if he re-injures that, he won't be looking so good after his shiftiness is gone. Skip him!

Lynch could be a good back, but I say that draft history means alot; don't draft SEC wideouts, do draft SEC running backs, skip Cal skill position players!

 

[jdnoyes]

guess it depends on what you think a "wow" player is...Lynch looks like a good but no better than average prospect and is certainly not a sure thign to be any kind of improvement over what we have...now Adrian Peterson is a differenct story

David

True, but it doesn't matter if we think he's a wow player or not it matters if Jerry does. He obviously thinks something of him or he wouldn't have been brought to the ranch. You think he's an average prospect, I think he can be a star in this league.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

guess it depends on what you think a "wow" player is...Lynch looks like a good but no better than average prospect and is certainly not a sure thign to be any kind of improvement over what we have...now Adrian Peterson is a differenct story

David

That's kind of the way I see it, too. I haven't seen a lot of Lynch and I respect IR's opinion, so maybe I'm wrong. But Lynch strikes me as just a "pretty good" NFL back. I thought JJ Arrington looked pretty good at Cal, and he's been nothing. Plus, I've read from some people at Cal that Lynch is a real gangsta wannabe.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that would be our best pick, unless we got a TON in trade for Julius.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Please, are you saying Frank Gore got his yards because of Larry Allen and Steven Jackson got his yards becasue he played for Marshall Faulk's offensive line and systme.

This isn't 2001. Larry Allen missed a huge chunk of the seeason and 49er fans are already hoping that he retires already because he was so bad when he played. Orlando Pace is the only player from left over from that Marshall Faulk line, he was put on IR halfway through the season and they aren't even running the same offensive system anymore.

The following at Gore's numbers for each game (in order) last season and if Allen played or not.

1. 16A 87Y 2TDs - Allen left game injured
2. 29A 129Y 1TD - Allen out
3. 16A 52Y 0TDs - Allen out
4. 14A 65Y 0 TDs - Allen out
5. 27A 134Y 0 TDs - Allen out
6. 10A 55Y 0TDs - Allen out
7. 12A 111Y 0TDs - With Allen (against Chicago)
8. 19A 41Y 0TDs - With Allen
9. 22A 159Y 0TDs - with Allen
10. 24A 212Y 0TDs - with Allen
11. 21A 134Y 1TD - with Allen
12. 13A 40Y 0 TD - with Allen
13. 19A 130Y 1TD - with Allen
14. 29A 144Y 0TDs - with Allen
15. 11A 51Y 2TDs - with Allen
16. 31A 153Y 0TDs - with Allen

From what I see; In games that Allen didn't play (or play the entire game - games 1-6) Gore rushed for 100+ yards only (2) times out of (6) games leaving (4) sub 100 rushing yard games. Now, the following (10) games that Larry Allen played in Gore had 7 100+ yard games (and one 200+ yard game) leaving only (3) sub 100 yard games. In (6) games he failed to break 100 (4) times, yet in 10 game he only failed to break 100 (3) times.

Without Larry Allen, Gore was 112 attempts for 522 yards (4.6YPC)
With Larry Allen, Gore was 203 attempts for 1175 yards (5.8YPC)

Thats 1.4YPC difference. That is a substantial difference considering Larry Allen is only one of five players on that line. The 49ers line isn't bad without Larry, but they are dominating in the running game with him. Look at Gore's runs. He had a BUNCH of long runs of 50+ yards. An explosive pulling guard is a major reason for that. Look back at what Allen and Newton did for Emmitt.

Without question, an offensive line can and will dictate how well a running back plays. While a runningback must be able to run and not fall down the first time he is touched as Julius Jones does, he also needs a line otherwise he is toast.


BTW, show me where the 49er fans have been calling for him to retire!?!?!?

 

[jdnoyes]

That's kind of the way I see it, too. I haven't seen a lot of Lynch and I respect IR's opinion, so maybe I'm wrong. But Lynch strikes me as just a "pretty good" NFL back. I thought JJ Arrington looked pretty good at Cal, and he's been nothing. Plus, I've read from some people at Cal that Lynch is a real gangsta wannabe.

Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that would be our best pick, unless we got a TON in trade for Julius.

Yes, character is one thing we haven't talked about with this guy and I think that more than his talent is the biggest knock on him. If he had a clean character I think he'd be a lock for the Top 15, maybe even top 10. If you want to argue that we shouldn't take him because of character issues in the first round I can buy that, or we shouldn't take him because we're ok at RB and have bigger needs elsewhere I could buy that, but if you saw this guy play I really don't see how you can question his talent.

Of course the draft is a complete crapshoot, its 50/50 who is going to be a player and who isn't, doesn't matter who we take those are the odds we're looking at. Thats one of the things that makes a draft so interesting, who you chose can set your franchise up for greatness or complete ruin.

Can't wait till Saturday

 

[InmanRoshi]

The following at Gore's numbers for each game (in order) last season and if Allen played or not.

1. 16A 87Y 2TDs - Allen left game injured
2. 29A 129Y 1TD - Allen out
3. 16A 52Y 0TDs - Allen out
4. 14A 65Y 0 TDs - Allen out
5. 27A 134Y 0 TDs - Allen out
6. 10A 55Y 0TDs - Allen out
7. 12A 111Y 0TDs - With Allen (against Chicago)
8. 19A 41Y 0TDs - With Allen
9. 22A 159Y 0TDs - with Allen
10. 24A 212Y 0TDs - with Allen
11. 21A 134Y 1TD - with Allen
12. 13A 40Y 0 TD - with Allen
13. 19A 130Y 1TD - with Allen
14. 29A 144Y 0TDs - with Allen
15. 11A 51Y 2TDs - with Allen
16. 31A 153Y 0TDs - with Allen

From what I see; In games that Allen didn't play (or play the entire game - games 1-6) Gore rushed for 100+ yards only (2) times out of (6) games leaving (4) sub 100 rushing yard games. Now, the following (10) games that Larry Allen played in Gore had 7 100+ yard games (and one 200+ yard game) leaving only (3) sub 100 yard games. In (6) games he failed to break 100 (4) times, yet in 10 game he only failed to break 100 (3) times.

Without Larry Allen, Gore was 112 attempts for 522 yards (4.6YPC)
With Larry Allen, Gore was 203 attempts for 1175 yards (5.8YPC)

Thats 1.4YPC difference. That is a substantial difference considering Larry Allen is only one of five players on that line. The 49ers line isn't bad without Larry, but they are dominating in the running game with him. Look at Gore's runs. He had a BUNCH of long runs of 50+ yards. An explosive pulling guard is a major reason for that. Look back at what Allen and Newton did for Emmitt.

Please don't tell me that San Francisco had a good line, and please don't tell me that Larry Allen alone can make a line good (he certainly didn't his last 5 years here). You know better. You know they had a horrible offensive line. Go to KFFL and ask the 49er fans there how bad Larry Allen was. The 49er offensive line was utterly atrocious, and Frank Gore willed his way to 1700 yards rushing. Walter Payton ran for an all time rushing record that stood for 15 years playing 85% of his career behind brutal offensive lines for the Bears. Its called making people miss, and its what good RB's do and Julius doesn't do enough of. And you still didn't address how somehow Steven Jackson is running behind the same offensive line and system that Marshall Faulk was, when he clearly isn't. Might as well say that Julius should rush for 1,500 yards because he's playing for the same offensive line that Emmitt Smith did.

Besides, we've addressed the OL about as much as we can in the last 2 years. There's nothing left to upgrade other than our projects and backups.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Please don't tell me that San Francisco had a good line, and please don't tell me that Larry Allen alone can make a line good (he certainly didn't for us). The 49er offensive line was utterly atrocious, and Frank Gore willed his way to 1700 yards rushing. Go to KFFL and ask the 49er fans there how bad Larry Allen was.

Well, I guess he willed himself more while Allen was in the game that he did when he wasn't because statistics don't lie. To raise your average yard per carry 1.4 more yards is no small feat.

We will just agree to disagree.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Well, I guess he willed himself more while Allen was in the game that he did when he wasn't because statistics don't lie. To raise your average yard per carry 1.4 more yards is no small feat.

Does that prove that Larry Allen was that great, just proves how bad his backup was. His backup was playing in Arena League football the year before.

If Larry Allen can singlenhandedly make an OL great or raise a RB's ypc 1.4, he certainly didn't do it here and he certainly didn't do it for Julius.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

If we do not trade up.....that would be great.

 

[BouncingCheese]

I think Allen is really only capable of mashing opposing d-lineman, and can't do fancy stuff like pull on sweeps and stuff like that... Frank Gore is the dude for that style of play (although he can take it outside), and so is Larry. The cowboys drafted JJ, and he seems best suited for sweeps and the cutbacking. Larry Allen's were/are too slow to do that. It is like putting a square peg in a round hole. I would have kept Allen, forget JJ; damn that would have been sexay to have Leonard Davis and Larry Allen mashing the strong-side like Steve Hutchinson and Walter Jones (although I know they plaed the left side, but still) damnit!

 

[JBS]

quick question for you IR. I know lynchs timed speed isn't great but how is his football speed? does he have that speed factor that jerry was talking about adding to this team? and how would he fare in our supposed new power rushing style? ill be honest I don't know to much about the guy, and I'm just trying to see if he could be a potential wow player jerry is lokkin for.