Can Campo get anything out of Roy?

[SuspectCorner]

I just cannot imagine the sordid state of boredom that would bring one to dredge up an old Roy Williams thread. We should all keep you in mind in our prayers such that you may be cured of this horrible affliction.

Much as I cannot imagine the delusional thinking that has some rationalizing that Roy is in the same Zip Code as the player we saw his first three years in Dallas.

I promise you - you're working much harder at your stance than I am at mine.

 

[theogt]

Much as I cannot imagine the delusional thinking that has some rationalizing that Roy is in the same Zip Code as the player we saw his first three years in Dallas.

I promise you - you're working much harder at your stance than I am at mine.

Which stance is that? That of looking up old threads with topics that have been beaten to death?

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

DB4L, no offense guy - but this statement is kinda laughable. Roy is making it on reputation only. He is a shadow of the "catalytic" player he once was.

As far as I'm able to determine, the drop-off can't be explained by an injury - and age isn't even a concern. RW should be at about the peak of his powers. Yet, he is not. Quite conversely, the trend is that Roy is becoming more of a liability with each passing year. Helluva note - but just about an absolute by the reckoning of most.

I'm not sure what you are seeing - but I'm seeing a player lacking in the discipline and commitment he evidenced his first three seasons in the league. He's grown soft, passive - he's lost the animosity towards opponents that was the hallmark of his earlier play. The hunger that motivated him to be a "killer" has been sated by his huge contract. A contract, IMO, he hasn't come close to honoring.

And with each successively disappointing season it's looking less and less likely that he will recapture his original mindset and motivations.

It's not about any lack of motivation or discipline on Roy Williams' part. The fact of the matter is that the game has changed. When Roy Williams was drafted the game was more run-oriented which played to his strengths. He further benefited from having Woodson on his side to cover those TEs and WRs so that Wilams could mainly play the run.

But since then, Woodson retired and the game changed to a more pass-happy league, which exposed Williams' inability to cover that much more. And with that, our divisional opponents added some very good pass catching TE's and WRs to more easily exploit his inability to cover.

And the nail in Williams' coffin is that Dallas switched to a 3-4 defense from the 4-3 when Parcells arrived. And almost instantaneously you saw Williams' slow descent. Personally, I don't think the switch to the 3-4 caused his inability to cover, but it surely has amplified it much more than it would have had we just stayed in the 4-3. This switch has also limited his play in the run game because in the 3-4 there is always an extra LB near the secondary (unlike in the 4-3) and they have different assignments based on what the offense does. So if Roy is cheated in he Box and cannot anticipate what the LBs in front of him are doing, this easily explains why he often falls out of position even in the running game.

**

 

[SuspectCorner]

Which stance is that? That of looking up old threads with topics that have been beaten to death?

Well let me apologize to the "official timer" who determines when threads are no longer viable. Get over yourself.

 

[SuspectCorner]

It's not about any lack of motivation or discipline on Roy Williams' part. The fact of the matter is that the game has changed. When Roy Williams was drafted the game was more run-oriented which played to his strengths. He further benefited from having Woodson on his side to cover those TEs and WRs so that Wilams could mainly play the run.

But since then, Woodson retired and the game changed to a more pass-happy league, which exposed Williams' inability to cover that much more. And with that, our divisional opponents added some very good pass catching TE's and WRs to more easily exploit his inability to cover.

And the nail in Williams' coffin is that Dallas switched to a 3-4 defense from the 4-3 when Parcells arrived. And almost instantaneously you saw Williams' slow descent. Personally, I don't think the switch to the 3-4 caused his inability to cover, but it surely has amplified it much more than it would have had we just stayed in the 4-3. This switch has also limited his play in the run game because in the 3-4 there is always an extra LB near the secondary (unlike in the 4-3) and they have different assignments based on what the offense does. So if Roy is cheated in he Box and cannot anticipate what the LBs in front of him are doing, this easily explains why he often falls out of position even in the running game.

**

Baloney. The "Roy Williams of old" would have no problem if he occasionally slammed into one of his own LBs - or anybody else on the field for that matter. He's a flippin' safety fer chrissake - 3-4... 4-3 - HIS JOB is the same in either scheme.

Just another rationalization.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Baloney. The "Roy Williams of old" would have no problem if he occasionally slammed into one of his own LBs - or anybody else on the field for that matter. He's a flippin' safety fer chrissake - 3-4... 4-3 - HIS JOB is the same in either scheme.

Just another rationalization.

Yeah i really dont think its the scheme. It just seems he doesnt work on his technique or study film. he takes bad angles, has poor technique in coverage and in tackling, and just seems uninspired.

The big hit and timely interception which were the facets to his game that set him apart have vanished.

That being said, other than Hamlin there wsa really noone manning the middle of the field that could cover worth a damn. When James, Ayodele and Burnett arent getting deep enough in their zones its the safeties behind them that have to try and make up for that. That may very well have something to do with him taking those bad angles and 'being out of position.'

We dont know the defensive calls so really well never know but as bad as Roy was our ILB were worse.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Yeah i really dont think its the scheme. It just seems he doesnt work on his technique or study film. he takes bad angles, has poor technique in coverage and in tackling, and just seems uninspired.

The big hit and timely interception which were the facets to his game that set him apart have vanished.

That being said, other than Hamlin there wsa really noone manning the middle of the field that could cover worth a damn. When James, Ayodele and Burnett arent getting deep enough in their zones its the safeties behind them that have to try and make up for that. That may very well have something to do with him taking those bad angles and 'being out of position.'

We dont know the defensive calls so really well never know but as bad as Roy was our ILB were worse.

I hate to admit it, but I am starting to think Roy's play went south when he got his new contract.

Sometimes it happens guys. A player is all-world and then he get paid and all of a sudden the intensity, desire, motivation, work ethic, all just disappears.

I have seen it happen to other players, even in other sports, but I never thought Roy would have been one of those players.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. We will probably never know. The fact remains however, that Roy is not the same Roy we drafted.

 

[UVAwahoos]

I hate to admit it, but I am starting to think Roy's play went south when he got his new contract.

Sometimes it happens guys. A player is all-world and then he get paid and all of a sudden the intensity, desire, motivation, work ethic, all just disappears.

I have seen it happen to other players, even in other sports, but I never thought Roy would have been one of those players.

Maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong. We will probably never know. The fact remains however, that Roy is not the same Roy we drafted.

Obviously this has something to do with it as is the case with a lot of players in all professional leagues. Regardless, we are paying this man millions of dollars for a service. He does not need to be pampered and coaxed into something THAT HE SHOULD BE DOING! Campo doesn't need to come in here and pet him and give him hugs all day since the other coaches were mean to him. Is this a 7 year old tee-ball league or the NFL we're talking about?

What a joke. It's pretty sad when we gotta make obvious excuses like he's not watching enough film or he's just lost out there. I mean, what's the point in paying him if he's not gonna do his job? I say we bench him for a couple games and see if that lights some fire in him. Any self-respecting athlete, no matter how much they are making, should be humiliated by having to ride the pine. If this doesn't get Roy's orca-*** on a treadmill and in the film room, than trade him for whatever you can get. At some point, you have to let go and accept the facts.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Obviously this has something to do with it as is the case with a lot of players in all professional leagues. Regardless, we are paying this man millions of dollars for a service. He does not need to be pampered and coaxed into something THAT HE SHOULD BE DOING! Campo doesn't need to come in here and pet him and give him hugs all day since the other coaches were mean to him. Is this a 7 year old tee-ball league or the NFL we're talking about?

What a joke. It's pretty sad when we gotta make obvious excuses like he's not watching enough film or he's just lost out there. I mean, what's the point in paying him if he's not gonna do his job? I say we bench him for a couple games and see if that lights some fire in him. Any self-respecting athlete, no matter how much they are making, should be humiliated by having to ride the pine. If this doesn't get Roy's orca-*** on a treadmill and in the film room, than trade him for whatever you can get. At some point, you have to let go and accept the facts.

Good post, I agree with you my friend.

As has been pointed out numerous times already on this board, Roy's cap # from his new contract all but prevents him from being traded or released. So he is here to stay for awhile. I see two options we can try.

1. We hope Campo can light a fire under Roy and get him back to playing at his old level.

or

2. We do like you suggest and bench him in an attempt to embarrass him back to his old self. I kinda doubt this would actually work, but we could give it a shot.

 

[silverbear]

Although Woody was by his side, Roy did have his best seasons as a Cowboy under Campo and Zimmer. Maybe a familiar face will be something that can inspire Roy, who knows. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I still think Roy has something to offer this team, maybe Dave "Puppet" Campo can be the solution.

Please don't insult our new DBs coach that way... from now on, kindly refer to him by his proper nickname:

Dave "Poodle" Campo...

 

[cowboyrock]

Although Woody was by his side, Roy did have his best seasons as a Cowboy under Campo and Zimmer. Maybe a familiar face will be something that can inspire Roy, who knows. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I still think Roy has something to offer this team, maybe Dave "Puppet" Campo can be the solution.

Let me make it as clear as i can. no one can make Roy better at this point. the guy is flatout terrible. he may be the worse SS in the NFL. the guy cant tackle or cover. he is flatout terrible.

 

[Redball Express]

Well technically Roy's best year ever was when Dave Campo was the head coach.


Dang it hurt to type that.

..it was a completely different defense then, we played a 4-3 and I don't care how people want to sugar coat it..

...there is a difference in the secondary in the 4-3 and the 3-4.

The nature of the pass rush and run defense is very different, the combination coverages involved with the LBers in that scheme is different from the 3-4 and that effects the safties as well.

Roy Williams was drafted to help a 4-3 defense.

His style of play was to help at the strong safety position to put pressure on the QB and to punish runners within 10 yards of the LOS.

His pass coverage skills downfield where NOT why he was drafted. If you read the above, his skills were a description of a LBer posing as a safety right from the start.

Campo and Zimmer used him like that as well. He isn't supposed to intercept or breakup passes. He was supposed to make Qb's throw quicker on blitzes and to separate the ballcarrier from the ball with in 5-10 yards from the line of scrimmage where he has his power to accelerate and deliver a blow.

Even the 'horsecollar' tackle that Williams has now made famous, to me is because too often, in the role he plays, he has responsibilities downfield in the secondary he just isn't fast enough or quick enough to do.

So he often isn't in front of the the ball carrier or parallel to him because it's usually a WR free downfield or a TE that is floating free because RW is being played out of position and the defensive coverage is flawed using him like it does..

Therefore, he has to reach out and drag the player down from behind...because he is behind the play.

And he developed a bad habit to coop with it..the 'horsecollar'.

Williams is best coming up to meet the ball or from the side once some contact has been made.

As we all can see, he's not a sure tackling safety.

He want to lay a hit on the player and often doesn't wrap up and just make the tackle. His instincts and the whole reason we drafted him was to be a physical presence on the defense.

The way we play it in the 3-4, he's not fit for the scheme and he needs more beef in front of him to allow him to flow to the ballcarrier and make his play in tight spaces where he can step up and make a hit.

Playing him in any open space is inviting trouble.

So until there is a change in the defense to a 4-3 and his role is changed back to how they started out using him and drafted him for, Campo or not Campo are we going to use Williams as best uses his skill set.

Can it be done..? I'm not sure in the Phillips 3-4. Maybe.

Year Two will tell us all we need to know about Roy Williams and what we have in him since we all have too much film to review about what NOT TO DO with Roy.

:starspin
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