Can Cowboys build a championship caliber team without a HOF caliber QB?

[Chasing6]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

When you look back in history if you win multiple SB's the QB is in the HOF.

 

[gtb1943]

When you look back in history if you win multiple SB's the QB is in the HOF.

Jim Plunkett is not. so there are exceptions. LIke Eli Plunkett did not have a great career except basically for those two seasons and even then great was not really right.
Eli racked up lots of numbers because he was very tough and played a long time. As far as I am concerned, that only makes him a somewhat better Vinny Testerverde

 

[gtb1943]

You still refuse to dispute Kurt Warner and Cole Beasley's analysis on Dak's two playoff INTs. You can't blame the QB for others' failures or mistakes thar contributed to those INTs. That's not fair. That's like blaming a QB for a lost fumble in the backfield while ignoring the snap was snapped way over his head to begin with.

And also can you not blame Dak for picks the DBs dropped as well?

 

[gtb1943]

We can't win until the Jones cartel can build a great roster on both sides of the ball. The defense is the main reason we haven't made any noise in the playoffs in decades.

We've had Romo and we've had Dak and it really didn't make any difference because our defense is a paper tiger.

Our defense is the reason we lost in the playoffs against:

1. Green Bay last season
2. Green Bay after the Dez catch bad call (4:58 still left in the game but our defense completely folded)
3. The Seattle fumbled snap FG playoff game (if defense forces a punt, we get a final possession with great field position)
4. The home playoff loss v Green Bay (Dak had better stats than Rogers, but defense couldn't stop 4th and 35)
5. The Rams away game loss where defense could not stop the run
6. Minnesota div round game in Romo era (defense was awful)

Team failures all. But it is true the Defense never really stood up when it was absolutely needed.

 

[gtb1943]

Unless Burrows could stay on the field. And if Stroud continues.

IDK, man, I'm fascinated to see what Harbaugh makes of Herbert. Herbert is cerebral w/ a great arm, is it the coaching that's been holding him back? And since the great championship loss to KC, Allen really hasn't been all that. Man, how is he still getting fanfare for that 3 years later? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Burrows is a real puzzle; he has shined brightly and also crapped the bed. Same with ALLEn to a degree. Allen strikes me as a Favre type; always attacking no matter what

 

[Chasing6]

Team failures all. But it is true the Defense never really stood up when it was absolutely needed.

Pretty sure their is a saying something like "Defenses win Championships.

I have never heard the saying, Offensives win Championships.

 

[DallasEast]

Its not an opinion the reality is as long as Jerry is doing it "His Way" there will be no HC able to "Shop for the groceries"...could Jerry hire a HC and let him run things and win..yes...will he..well you tell me..has he? Its like looking at a company that keeps hiring the wrong guys and saying.."The CEO is fine, the guys he is hiring keep failing him.."

Bold> This is exact how Jones (a.k.a. Mad Genius) has perceived things, especially ever since Jimmy Johnson roster eroded after Barry Switzer coached the team to the Super Bowl XXX championship.

 

[gtb1943]

Bold> This is exact how Jones (a.k.a. Mad Genius) has perceived things, especially ever since Jimmy Johnson roster erode after Barry Switzer coached the team to the Super Bowl XXX championship.

Yep. I seem to remember some years ago Jethro even admitted he would have fired a GM with the record he had.
The CEO sets the tone; hired those that hire others; the buck stops there.

 

[kskboys]

When you look back in history if you win multiple SB's the QB is in the HOF.

Jim Plunkett disagrees. Phil Simms also. (Broken foot for 2nd one they won).

 

[DallasEast]

Yep. I seem to remember some years ago Jethro even admitted he would have fired a GM with the record he had.
The CEO sets the tone; hired those that hire others; the buck stops there.

Bold> He may have stated the same thing earlier but he definitely did so in 2012 (link). That article's writer summed up my nearly 25-year assessment of Jones perfectly, based upon his response to Bob Costas:

Once you make it through that self-referential haze of circular logic, you realize Jones the owner is full of it. Why couldn't he fire yourself. Just because it wouldn't involve a conversation in front of a mirror, a pink slip and severance pay, doesn't mean he couldn't wave the white flag and bring in another person to take over as GM. His definition is all semantics. Jones doesn't fire himself because he thinks he's the best man for the job.​

 

[DallasEast]

Jim Plunkett disagrees. Phil Simms also. (Broken foot for 2nd one they won).

Technically, Simms' broken foot prevented him from playing in Super Bowl XXV--which Jeff Hostetler subbed in for him.

 

[kskboys]

Burrows is a real puzzle; he has shined brightly and also crapped the bed. Same with ALLEn to a degree. Allen strikes me as a Favre type; always attacking no matter what

No doubt.

Cincy is a team that puts too much on the QB. Best I can figure.

 

[kskboys]

Technically, Simms' broken foot prevented him from playing in Super Bowl XXV--which Jeff Hostetler subbed in for him.

See parentheses!!!!!!!

 

[DallasEast]

See parentheses!!!!!!!

Parentheses does not state whether he played in the Super Bowl with a broken foot!!!!!!

It is not a broken foot but other players have played in the Super Bowl with broken legs before, such as Terrell Owens and Jack Youngblood. Some younger CowboysZone members may incorrectly assume broken bones prevent players from performing in the championship game.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Sure, but it requires that you don't pay said non-HOF caliber QB like a HOF caliber QB.

 

[bewp7]

cowboys? no

another team could

u need hof level special in other place if u want to do that

the coach to start

jerry think garrett and mccarthy are the right pick so no cowboys cant

 

[Diehardblues]

When you look back in history if you win multiple SB's the QB is in the HOF.

There’s one which comes to mind in Jim Plunkett that won 2 and isn’t inducted.

 

[Diehardblues]

Unless Burrows could stay on the field. And if Stroud continues.

IDK, man, I'm fascinated to see what Harbaugh makes of Herbert. Herbert is cerebral w/ a great arm, is it the coaching that's been holding him back? And since the great championship loss to KC, Allen really hasn't been all that. Man, how is he still getting fanfare for that 3 years later? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Allen practically took them to the playoffs after a slow start to season last year on his own losing again to KC in a game which could have gone either way again. He’s the real deal IMO. He’s why they are in it.

But I agree Herbert could become the next great one . Hopefully not Stroud .

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes but that kinda emphasizes how weak they have been at putting together a team and why they don’t belong in the same vein as the other orgs that have built great teams. They had 2 great players and traded 1, whereas these other teams have half a dozen.

Which probably supports Allen’s greatness. But I see your point .

 

[ArtClink]

Thank you!!

Romo and Dak have had awful plays in the playoffs but in general have performed well enough to win 7-8 playoff games between the two.

The Defenses have been Historically Bad in Tony and Dak playoff lossesS

Yes, historically bad.