Can Cowboys build a championship caliber team without a HOF caliber QB?

[kskboys]

Well.....yeah.

Sure, I could pull out a counterexample or two, but not enough to refute your statement.

Another thing you have in your favor is the fact that only three QB's have been inducted since 2000. That blew me away when I saw that. Only Bret Favre, Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner have been inducted into the Hall of Fame since Tony Romo joined the league in 2003.

However, most Super Bowl champion quarterbacks this century won their first Super Bowls when they were very young and a bunch of them are becoming eligible over the next couple of seasons.

So, you might be right. It could be that even a Super Bowl championship wouldn't be enough to put Tony Romo in. At this point, he would be considered along with Drew Brees, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, etc. If only one or two was inducted, it wouldn't be Romo even with a Super Bowl championship.

Funny thing is, it's all part of the equation. Stats, super bowls, playoffs, regular season. And don't forget the team. Many believe that Archie Manning was a HOF caliber QB on a bad team. I think it's possible myself.

I'm against it, but they will prolly put Eli in. For the majority of their careers, Romo was considered a better QB than Eli.

Forgot about Rothy. Another guy on the cusp to me, but man that one is close.

It's gotten to where I respect the HOF less and less. Especially in baseball, where they've made it the Hall of the Very Good. They now put people in because they feel sorry for them, or think it's unfair not to. Really sabotaging the HOF.

 

[kskboys]

Is it possible we are overvaluing our QB’s. I’m not sure I’d consider either of them HOF caliber.

I’m not shocked some Cowboy fans might lean that way but we have to be more unbiased taking off our rose colored glasses.

I just don’t see how we can place Romo in that upper echelon with the likes of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers even Rothleisburger and Brees who are also certain to be HOF.

And how can we place Dak in the upper echelon with Mahomes, even Allen and Jackson who are probably the top 3 currently.

Im not even sure we can place him up with some others like Burrows for example. Dak is good but Id be more comfortable placing him in the next level of QB’s closer to top 10 than top 5.

Neither is close to HOF caliber.

 

[kskboys]

Really. 60% percentage.

You must be a young 'un who didn't watch Aikman play. 60% used to be the hallmark of accuracy. As the rules changed making it easier and easier to complete passes, 70 is now the new hallmark.

Plus, I really don't understand how you're not taking into account the type of O run. Run that short pass O and your comp % will go up 5-10 pts, which does not signal accuracy. Aikman ran a downfield passing attack. 60% in that type of O at that time is phenomenal. It was talked about a ton that Aikman was the most accurate QB of his time and one of the most accurate all time. Attempting to make a comparison using stats from different eras is beyond silly.

 

[kskboys]

Exactly, and Dak's composure is that integral part of the problem. The GB game highlighted this.....1st half under pressure dreadful (Pick 6 and Int giving short field 19 yards) as opposed to the second half performance, when the game was lost.....and pressure was off, he looked like Regular Season MVP Convo Dak.

This is why, even with an Elite Defense, it may not be sufficient, as from time to time we'll go behind and I dont think anyone trusts Dak in managing a comeback.

Good point. One can argue all day whether Dak or the D was the bigger issue, but as the leader of the team, Dak absolutely cannot be a part of the problem, and he was a big part of it.

 

[noshame]

Really. 60% percentage.

Really?
Did you miss the under pressure part?
Cooper Rush has a 60% also.
Ya think it might be supporting cast, easy system, and a heavy dose of horrible competition?
Honestly I don't understand who you're watching in high pressure games, seasonal or playoffs.

 

[kskboys]

Really?
Did you miss the under pressure part?
Cooper Rush has a 60% also.
Ya think it might be supporting cast, easy system, and a heavy dose of horrible competition?
Honestly I don't understand who you're watching in high pressure games, seasonal or playoffs.

There is no way he watched Aikman.

 

[noshame]

There is no way he watched Aikman.

YODA: All their life they looked away....

 

[Silver N Blue]

When we look back in history the teams which have success without a HOF caliber QB most have done so with Elite defenses . Some needed a generational type #1 defense .

And some still had a QB who was average to above average talent which they didn’t need to carry them . He was enough to move the offense, make big plays when needed and most importantly not give up the ball costing them better opportunities to win.

There’s been several throughout history. Do we think we can build that type of team ? If not then we must find a QB who can carry a less than great team. Unfortunately there’s only maybe a handful or less at anytime.

Which scenario better suits our organization?

Nope they have been trying since Troy retired. As they say proof is in the pudding…this organization has only proven their way is not the right way.

 

[Qcard]

This is a great question

Can it be done? Yes.
Can the Cowboys do it? No.

Front office isn’t good enough. Doesn’t utilize all resources to build the team to have a strong enough team to do it. They also do not invest enough into elite caliber coaching. Take alll of this into the equation and a HOF caliber qb is the only way this team will win. It’s the same reason why Romo never got it done and it’s the same reason why Dak isn’t getting it done now.

Great point....Therefore Prescott is hypothetically 3 more wins in the playoffs to becoming a HOF Caliber QB if Jerry and Stephen invest effectively in FA.

Dak Haters hypothetically want Jerry and Stephen to LUCK into a Draft pick, Trade for or pay a contract for a HOF caliber QB and invest effectively in FA.

You can't make this stuff up...Dak Hate is negligent

 

[conner01]

I hear what you’re saying but I’d argue most teams who found their future Franchise QB with 1st round pick would consider it a success. He doesn’t have to be a HOF caliber just because he was a top 3 pick.

No, I agree. But every year the majority of first round QB’s never become top 10 players. And after the first the odds are even lower. The fact that teams fill the spit with first round picks doesn’t mean as much when you look at one team doing it and 5 missing on a top quality QB even with high picks. It’s really hard to get a QB good enough to get you to a SB. And it takes more than just that QB on top of that

 

[conner01]

Unfortunately if there’s only a handful of less of Top 5 QB’s at any given time the rest of the league must attempt to build around a lesser type QB.

I’d argue the 49ers are one of those teams which has. Buffalo and Baltimore might be a couple others.

That’s really all you can do. And there has been some less than Top 5 QB’s win SB. The list is much longer on those who have at least reached a SB.

A really good QB sure doesn’t guarantee a SB. It takes a really good Team. Teams have won without star QB’s but the game has changed and today it is really hard if you don’t have at least a top 5-7 QB. It also involves a little luck. Hard to argue the 49ers don’t have the top or near the top of the league roster. Year before last injuries knocked them out and this year a team who may not have as good a roster beat them. It’s just really hard to win a SB

 

[Diehardblues]

No, I agree. But every year the majority of first round QB’s never become top 10 players. And after the first the odds are even lower. The fact that teams fill the spit with first round picks doesn’t mean as much when you look at one team doing it and 5 missing on a top quality QB even with high picks. It’s really hard to get a QB good enough to get you to a SB. And it takes more than just that QB on top of that

Right but the1st round is your best odds to hit on a QB.

 

[gtb1943]

Right but the1st round is your best odds to hit on a QB.

I think that the odds of finding THE GUY really gets lower once you are past the top ten picks. There are some exceptions like Rodgers but not many.

 

[Chasing6]

Really?
Did you miss the under pressure part?
Cooper Rush has a 60% also.
Ya think it might be supporting cast, easy system, and a heavy dose of horrible competition?
Honestly I don't understand who you're watching in high pressure games, seasonal or playoffs.

Ok. So Aikman was more accurate under pressure and threw 50% without pressure. Is that what you are trying to say????

 

[Chasing6]

You must be a young 'un who didn't watch Aikman play. 60% used to be the hallmark of accuracy. As the rules changed making it easier and easier to complete passes, 70 is now the new hallmark.

Plus, I really don't understand how you're not taking into account the type of O run. Run that short pass O and your comp % will go up 5-10 pts, which does not signal accuracy. Aikman ran a downfield passing attack. 60% in that type of O at that time is phenomenal. It was talked about a ton that Aikman was the most accurate QB of his time and one of the most accurate all time. Attempting to make a comparison using stats from different eras is beyond silly.

No I am in my 50's and I am not delusional about QB play. I am taking into account that we ran the ball more than we passed. I am taking into account the offense was built around E. Smith. I am taking into account that we rarely had to come from behind and Emmitt and the OLine ran out the clock.

What happened when Emmitt sat out 2 games? We lost both.

Do you recall Emmitt having to carry us with 1 shoulder. Where was Troy?

 

[Chasing6]

Is it possible we are overvaluing our QB’s. I’m not sure I’d consider either of them HOF caliber.

I’m not shocked some Cowboy fans might lean that way but we have to be more unbiased taking off our rose colored glasses.

I just don’t see how we can place Romo in that upper echelon with the likes of Brady, Peyton, Rodgers even Rothleisburger and Brees who are also certain to be HOF.

And how can we place Dak in the upper echelon with Mahomes, even Allen and Jackson who are probably the top 3 currently.

Im not even sure we can place him up with some others like Burrows for example. Dak is good but Id be more comfortable placing him in the next level of QB’s closer to top 10 than top 5.

 

[conner01]

Right but the1st round is your best odds to hit on a QB.

By far the best and even there it’s really a crap shoot. It’s really hard to find a top 5 or so QB. It’s not easy finding a top 15 QB

 

[Chasing6]

By far the best and even there it’s really a crap shoot. It’s really hard to find a top 5 or so QB. It’s not easy finding a top 15 QB

Just like Brady.

 

[noshame]

Ok. So Aikman was more accurate under pressure and threw 50% without pressure. Is that what you are trying to say????

Trying to say different era.
Dak wouldn't last a half.

 

[CowboyFrog]

No.
This organization lacks the triangle to success position holders to accomplish post season success.
Wrong GM.
Wrong HC
Wrong QB.

I've discussed in detail overcthe years how I believe an elite HC paired with an elite QB could "possibly" achieve improved postseason success even with the current GM.

The masses all then do the standard as long as GM is in charge we are stuck in the mud.

I will always counter that an elite QB, and especially an elite QB paired with an elite HC, could drastically alter this team's direction even in spite of Jerry.

Some few agree with Mr.
Others stick to the not as long as Jerry is GM chorus.

Opinions vary.

Its not an opinion the reality is as long as Jerry is doing it "His Way" there will be no HC able to "Shop for the groceries"...could Jerry hire a HC and let him run things and win..yes...will he..well you tell me..has he? Its like looking at a company that keeps hiring the wrong guys and saying.."The CEO is fine, the guys he is hiring keep failing him.."