Can T-new move to FS, successfully?

[Sarge]

All this is great and everything but....he's not going to be moved to FS. Period.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Newman is pretty physical. He can play safety. The problem I see is his staying healthy enough to play well and stay on the field. I'm not saying he will get hurt but it is an issue of concern.

Let's illuminate a distinction here.

Can he actually play the position?

For the most part probably.

But he also would get the snot beat out of him and get hurt. Which means ultimately he cannot play safety.

 

[Rack]

Well, he could last longer if he played like Ball and just stayed away from the middle of the field and as far from the line of scrimmage as possible.

Jerry Jones plays closer to the line of scrimmage than Ball.

:laugh2:

All this is great and everything but....he's not going to be moved to FS. Period.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is there anyone on this board more arrogant than you, Fuzzy? Anytime anyone disagrees with you, they are ignorant, uneducated, or not worldly enough.

Why would you posit that I know little about how weight is gained and lost?

Thanks for letting me know that you need protein and a calorie surplus to gain weight, though. I had no idea! :laugh2:

You are just not making any sense.

You have been claiming that Newman's body type has changed. You have been using this line of thought to pimp the notion that Newman can not handle the collisions associated with the free safety position.

This clearly is wrong.

I even went and googled "terence newman college weight kansas state" for you. The first ten links had him at either 190 and 193.

Those just so happen to be the same weights he had at the combine and current roster.

Somewhere in all of this you had gleaned that he had to work hard to keep on weight after he got here when he is within a few pounds of his weight at the combine now.

I at least do remember Parcells talking about players working out too much and winding themselves too tight. About how you get muscle pulls. But Parcells is not going to talk about a weight gain that never occurred.

The only reason I bring up diet is because I am following your nonsense train of thought.

Really when I think about it Newman has looked exactly the same out there for the past 8 years. I notice him because he likes to come to a knee when he picks himself up off the turf and hes bowlegged.

Part of him being bowlegged is that he has a wide base. He is only 5-10. Hes not lean like a 6-1 Alan Ball who actually did have to work hard to get his weight up from the 183 he posted at the combine.

I certainly do not see him being tossed around by tight ends and backs like Ball was.

I may be arrogant in laboring a point but what you are claiming to be true clearly is not.

You have tainted the discussion of whether Newman can function at 5 to 10 pounds more with it.

In your brain , do you really see a smaller Newman his rookie year? Do you hear Parcells talking about it?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I'm only answering this because you're being so melodramatic in saying that I'm pimping anything or that I have some "nonsense train of thought". This isn't that complicated.

My contention is that Newman is a naturally skinny guy (he weighed 150 in high school and only 170 as an overaged sophomore at K-State, google it) and that he can't hold much more muscle on his frame. Grown, drug-free adults who work diligently for literally years to gain muscle can only functionally hold so much lean weight, and eventually hit a wall. IMO the 33 year old Newman is maxed out, and has been for a while.

This is hardly some outrageous opinion, regardless of what you may say.

It's nothing against the guy at all. He's been my favorite player on the team for a long time now. It's just physiology.

BTW, those google links mentioning college are obviously picking up his current weight.

Now go ahead. I'm not into endless bickering back and forth so you can have the last word.

 

[Stautner]

I'm only answering this because you're being so melodramatic in saying that I'm pimping anything or that I have some "nonsense train of thought". This isn't that complicated.

My contention is that Newman is a naturally skinny guy (he weighed 150 in high school and only 170 as an overaged sophomore at K-State, google it) and that he can't hold much more muscle on his frame. Grown, drug-free adults who work diligently for literally years to gain muscle can only functionally hold so much lean weight, and eventually hit a wall. IMO the 33 year old Newman is maxed out, and has been for a while.

This is hardly some outrageous opinion, regardless of what you may say.

It's nothing against the guy at all. He's been my favorite player on the team for a long time now. It's just physiology.

BTW, those google links mentioning college are obviously picking up his current weight.

Now go ahead. I'm not into endless bickering back and forth so you can have the last word.

I think your idea on this has merit. It obviously can't be proven, but there is logic to it. At the least it seems fairly certain that it doesn't make sense for him to try and gain 15-20 pounds, and even though another 5 pounds is more doable, that really wouldn't make a lot of difference anyway.

Aside from all this, there is still just the difference in attitude and skills needed between being a safety and a CB. CB is a finesse position - physicality obviously helps, but it is minor next to agility and speed. At safety the emphasis shifts to where physicality and a willigness to stick your hlmet into a 235 lb. RB or a 265 lb. TE running at full speed becomes much more important. I don't see that as Newman's game. I think he could do a somewhat better job at FS than Ball did because he is just a better athlete than Ball, but he would still be very limited in what he could do against big TE's and run support.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm only answering this because you're being so melodramatic in saying that I'm pimping anything or that I have some "nonsense train of thought". This isn't that complicated.

My contention is that Newman is a naturally skinny guy (he weighed 150 in high school and only 170 as an overaged sophomore at K-State, google it) and that he can't hold much more muscle on his frame. Grown, drug-free adults who work diligently for literally years to gain muscle can only functionally hold so much lean weight, and eventually hit a wall. IMO the 33 year old Newman is maxed out, and has been for a while.

This is hardly some outrageous opinion, regardless of what you may say.

It's nothing against the guy at all. He's been my favorite player on the team for a long time now. It's just physiology.

BTW, those google links mentioning college are obviously picking up his current weight.

Now go ahead. I'm not into endless bickering back and forth so you can have the last word.

I did google it.

HERE is a link from K-
State. it again does not support your lie.

[youtube]dJoT-w5t2ks[/youtube]

A video of him at K-State where he looks exactly the same as he does now.

Your contention is either a lie or based on a poor memory. You can call me melodramatic but what your claiming is not true.

Lets go over this again so its clear:

He did not:

1) Put on 23 pounds from college.
2) Put on more than 3 pounds from his weigh in at the combine.

You can contend all you want but a google search does not support it and for someone who is supposedly your favorite player you have no idea what he has or does look like.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I said I was done, but when you put it like that:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/rosters/2000/kkb/

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

For contrast (or lack thereof)Terence Newman now:

[youtube]feYtJzyoQ-w[/youtube]

 

[Stautner]

For contrast (or lack thereof)Terence Newman now:

[youtube]feYtJzyoQ-w[/youtube]

So you are going onhow big he "looked" in video tape, and Lab is going by the actual size listed on the roster.

Hmmm - not sure i would go with they accuracy of an eyeball measurement of a guy in pads (perhaps even different sized pads) on video tap over the accuracy of an actual scale.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I said I was done, but when you put it like that:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/rosters/2000/kkb/

Bravo, you actually backed up what you said. Was it that hard?

So, after a red shirt freshman year and a year in a Div1 college weight program put on 15 pounds. He was able to maintain that weight easily.

Players that have issues maintaining weight lean out during the year and we have never seen that from Newman.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you are going onhow big he "looked" in video tape, and Lab is going by the actual size listed on the roster.

Hmmm - not sure i would go with they accuracy of an eyeball measurement of a guy in pads (perhaps even different sized pads) on video tap over the accuracy of an actual scale.

He finally showed something.

I didn't believe he was right after his other claim of Newman putting on weight after he got here was wrong. One out of two is not bad I guess.

All this says is that at age 21, Newman put on weight. He has maintained that weight since and quite frankly many, many young men go through the process of filling out around that time.

its not like its some aberration.

Do you think that Newman can play at 200 or 205 and maintain his speed and quickness for the most part?

 

[Stautner]

He finally showed something.

I didn't believe he was right after his other claim of Newman putting on weight after he got here was wrong. One out of two is not bad I guess.

All this says is that at age 21, Newman put on weight. He has maintained that weight since and quite frankly many, many young men go through the process of filling out around that time.

its not like its some aberration.

Do you think that Newman can play at 200 or 205 and maintain his speed and quickness for the most part?

I would guess - and that's all it is - that if he put on 5-6 punds it wouldn't affect his speed much, but if he put on 10-15 pounds it might and probably would. Considering speed is his one true asset, I don't know how it would make sense to sacrifice speed to move him to FS. I don't imagine 5-10 pounds is really going to make him any more of a hitter or any more willing and able to take on 235 lb RB's and 265 lb TE's head on at full speed. He is a speed guy, not a physical player, and that is at least as much mentality as size. More size helps - it's easier to have that mentality when your body can take that kind of collision, but i don't see beefing up a guy whos career has been built on speed as a way to manufacture that kind of mentality.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would guess - and that's all it is, that if he put on 5-6 punds it wouldna't affect his spedmuch, but if he put on 10-15 pounds it might. Considering speed is his one true asset, I dona't know how it owuld make sense to sacrifice speed to move him to FS. I don't imagine 5-10 pounds is really going to make him any more of a hitter or any more willing and able to take on 235 lb RB's and 265 lb TE's head on at full speed. He is a speed guy, not a physical player, and that is at least as much mentality is size. More size helps - it's easier to have that mentality when your body can take that kind of collision, but i don't see beefing up a guy whos career has been built on speed as a way to manufacture that kind of mentality.

You do not just mindlessly put on weight. You add strength in the bubble and thighs so that when he engages blockers he has a stronger base to work with.

Also his physicality at corner is most definitely an asset of his. He is one of the more physical corners in the NFL.

 

[Stautner]

You do not just mindlessly put on weight. You add strength in the bubble and thighs so that when he engages blockers he has a stronger base to work with.

Also his physicality at corner is most definitely an asset of his. He is one of the more physical corners in the NFL.

I understand you don't just mindlessly put on weight, but that doesn't mean that the added weight, wherever and however it is put on, wouldn't affect his speed - or his flexibility - or his quickness. If it were that easy the NFL would have everyone put on weight because they could make everyone stronger without sacrificing anything. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

Second, I'm not sure if he is one of THE MOST physical CB's, but I will concede he is a reasonably physical CB. The problem is, we aren't talking about him playing CB, and we aren't talking about him being physical on pass routes with WR's who are focusing on catching a pass. We are talking now about run support and taking on a 230 lb RB coming at you straight on with a full head of steam, or doing the same with a 265 lb TE. No benefit of coming from the side or going for an ankle tackle - you are the safety - last line of defense - you have to take them on.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I understand you don't just mindlessly put on weight, but that doesn't mean that the added weight, wherever and however it is put on, wouldn't affect his speed - or his flexibility - or his quickness. If it were that easy the NFL would have everyone put on weight because they could make everyone stronger without sacrificing anything. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple.

Second, I'm not sure if he is one of THE MOST physical CB's, but I will concede he is a reasonably physical CB. The problem is, we aren't talking about him playing CB, and we aren't talking about him being physical on pass routes with WR's who are focusing on catching a pass. We are talking now about run support and taking on a 230 lb RB coming at you straight on with a full head of steam, or doing the same with a 265 lb TE. No benefit of coming from the side or going for an ankle tackle - you are the safety - last line of defense - you have to take them on.

I have no doubt that weight in the legs and butt would effect his twitch athleticism. I guess its just to what degree.

With Ratliff undersized at the nose having a smaller -even 205 is on the low side- safety in the middle of the field seems like a bad idea.

As for physical play he attacks sweeps and smoke routes and most of the time (read: not last year) he can bring the carrier down. Most corners are not that physical.

 

[Stautner]

I have no doubt that weight in the legs and butt would effect his twitch athleticism. I guess its just to what degree.

With Ratliff undersized at the nose having a smaller -even 205 is on the low side- safety in the middle of the field seems like a bad idea.

As for physical play he attacks sweeps and smoke routes and most of the time (read: not last year) he can bring the carrier down. Most corners are not that physical.

Like I say, I will concede that he is a reasonably physical CB, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a reasonably physical safety. I agree he attacks sweeps - does a good job coming up - but thats just not the same as being a physical guy who can take the pounding in the middle of the field and the heart of hte defense and taking on players 25-75 pounds heavier than he is head on.

If it was pure coverage, I would kind of like the idea of him moving. He is a much better athlete than Ball, and while I don't think his balls skills are all that special, his speed, and the fact that he would be playing with the entire field in front of him would benefit him in the coverage aspects of FS. I just don't want a one dimensional guy - I want one that can seprate even TE's from teh ball, blitch, come up hard and stop a 235 lb ball carrier as he breaks throgh the line of scrimmage, fight through the block of a TE or FB s he comes up in run support.

Bottom line is I think Newman would be better than Ball, but I don't want to settle for a better guy, I want to find the right guy. I think Newman is just as much a help as a CB as he would be at FS.

 

[Doomsday]

You really want to play Newman $8.5 million next season to find out if he can play FS? That would be a mistake in my opinion.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You really want to play Newman $8.5 million next season to find out if he can play FS? That would be a mistake in my opinion.

Salary is secondary to the best product you can put on the field IMO.

We need better safety play.

 

[jobberone]

Let's illuminate a distinction here.

Can he actually play the position?

For the most part probably.

But he also would get the snot beat out of him and get hurt. Which means ultimately he cannot play safety.

And you get this ex cathetra?

Didn't I say injury would be a concern. You have outdone even yourself.