Can TO be our Tiki Barber?

[InmanRoshi]

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. The Eagles went to the Superbowl in 2004. TO started complaining the entire following offseason about his contract. The team eventually suspended TO indefinitely after he ripped the organization for not celebrating his 100th TD catch against the Chargers on October 23rd, 2005. The Eagles won the Chargers game, and had a winning record on the season.

Please, do not act like TO is all about winning. TO is all about TO.

 

[DuaneThomas71]

Uh, yes. The Eagles went to the Superbowl in 2004. TO started complaining the entire 2005 offseason about his contract. The team eventually suspended TO indefinitely after he ripped the organization for not celebrating his 100th TD catch against the Chargers on October 23rd, 2005. The Eagles won the Chargers game, and had a winning record on the season.

Please, do not act like TO is all about winning. TO is all about TO.

The Eagles were coming off a Super Bowl...get this...LOSS.

Did you just forget that part?

And what player isn't about himself? What human being isn't?

We're in the era of free agency. These players can change teams at any time...multiple times. They are being paid millions. You think they REALLY care that deeply about their organization? There are only a handful of guys you can say that about.

Really. You, #41, Dave, DCfanatic, bbgun, and theebs have gone off the deep end on Terrell Owens. It's impossible to take you guys seriously because he's basically the only thing that exists to you guys. Well, he and Jerry. Everything else doesn't exist; the Cowboys problems are all the fault of Terrell Owens and Jerry Jones. Get rid of both and they'll win every game for the rest of eternity.

 

[InmanRoshi]

The Eagles were coming off a Super Bowl...get this...LOSS.

Did you just forget that part?

And what player isn't about himself? What human being isn't?

We're in the era of free agency. These players can change teams at any time...multiple times. They are being paid millions. You think they REALLY care that deeply about their organization? There are only a handful of guys you can say that about.

Really. You, #41, Dave, DCfanatic, bbgun, theebs and myself who have gone off the deep end on Terrell Owens. It's impossible to take you guys seriously because he's basically the only thing that exists to you guys. Well, he and Jerry. Everything else doesn't exist; the Cowboys problems are all the fault of Terrell Owens and Jerry Jones. Get rid of both and they'll win every game for the rest of eternity.

a) So the only way TO isn't going to go off the deep end and divide a lockerroom and bring down the entire team is if he's the 1 out of 32 teams that wins Superbowl? And you apologize for this turd?

b) Please stop acting like TO is not different than any other of today's players. Only TO gets kicked off of every team he's on for bad behavior. Only TO calls out his teammates as gay in the media. Only TO throws a hissy because his team didn't stop down the game to celebrate his stats. Only TO swallows bottles of vicadin at a time because his coaches are too mean to him. Only TO holds press conferences in his front lawn while doing situps. There's not a another player in the league who does those things, because TO is a certifiable nutcase.

c) It's not #41, Dave, DCfanatic, bbgun, theebs and myself who are the crazy fringe, it's you. TO is a laughing stock among 99.999% of the football watching public and so are all of his crazy apologists. Only among a fringe, crazed group of Cowboy fans is it even debated whether or not TO is a team cancer. Its obvious to everyone else, and they all point and laugh at you for being a gullible sucker.

 

[Matt]

Remember after Barber retired after a season where he was probably the biggest distraction in the league for a Giants team that crashed and burned.

They were pegged to finish last in the East by most pundits yet won the Super Bowl. Jacobs was alrgely unproven as an everydown back, ditto for Ward and Bradshaw.

I'm on the fence regarding keeping TO, but maybe just maybe cutting TO may not be the end of the world some are proclaiming here.

Uh, if you want to go with the Troy Hambrick theory.

TO is a gamechanger. Enough said.

 

[DuaneThomas71]

a) So the only way TO isn't going to go off the deep end and divide a lockerroom is if he wins a Superbowl? And you apologize for this turd?

Oh goodie, the straw man argument.

No. The Owens situation in Philly was twofold:

1. Numerous teammates came out and criticized McNabb following the Super Bowl loss, and Owens joined in. That was what kicked off their contentious relationship.

2. A contract dispute.

The latter was what really did him in with the organization.

b) Evidently not every player is all about himself, because not every player gets kicked out of every city he plays in. Only TO does. Only TO calls out his teammates as gay in the media. Only TO throws a hissy because his team didn't stop down the game to celebrate his stats. Only TO swallows bottles of vicadin at a time because his coaches are too mean to him. Only TO holds press conferences in his front lawn while doing situps. There's not a another player in the league who does those things, because TO is a certifiable nutcase.

Oh, I see what I'm dealing with now. A total loon.

Most players act mostly in terms of their own self-interests because almost no player sticks with the same organization for his entire career. So, in a way, is not every player a "mercenary?" Even Emmitt Smith kept playing with the Arizona Cardinals. So how much did he REALLY care about the Cowboys organization?

Certainly, the likes of Charles Haley, Ken Norton, Kevin Gogan, Deion Sanders, Mark Stepnoski, and Alvin Harper weren't "all about the Cowboys." They wanted rings for THEMSELVES...and maybe for the players on the team they were friends with. That's no different than what Terrell Owens wants. He might not bleed for the organization or for every single guy in the locker room, but he wants to win a ring for himself and the people on the team that he likes and respects.

You're the one who is a certifiable nutcase, and I'm not alone in that belief.

"TO swallows bottles of vicadin at a time because his coaches are too mean to him."

See, you can't even make a cogent argument so you have to resort to outright falsehoods. It was an accidental overdose; he was being treated for his broken finger. You think he walked out of the doctor's office with the medication for his broken finger and went, "You know? Everyone's being mean to me! I'm going to kill myself." Then he swallowed a bunch of pills, went to the hospital, and managed to fool the police into believing it wasn't a suicide attempt.

Gee, thanks ImmanRoshi for your well-informed perspective on what REALLY happened.

c) It's not #41, Dave, DCfanatic, bbgun, and theebs who are the crazy fringe, it's you. TO is a laughing stock among 99.999% of the football watching public and so are all of his crazy apologists. Only among a fringe, crazed group of Cowboy fans is it even debated whether or not TO is a team cancer. It's obvious to everyone else.

[/QUOTE]

Gee, who should we believe...the likes of you guys? Or me, 5countem5, theogt, Clove, The Count, SultanOfSix, and Vintage?

Who do you think has the better collection of IQs?

 

[DeaconBlues]

a) So the only way TO isn't going to go off the deep end and divide a lockerroom and bring down the entire team is if he's the 1 out of 32 teams that wins Superbowl? And you apologize for this turd?

b) Please stop acting like TO is not different than any other of today's players. Only TO gets kicked off of every team he's on for bad behavior. Only TO calls out his teammates as gay in the media. Only TO throws a hissy because his team didn't stop down the game to celebrate his stats. Only TO swallows bottles of vicadin at a time because his coaches are too mean to him. Only TO holds press conferences in his front lawn while doing situps. There's not a another player in the league who does those things, because TO is a certifiable nutcase.

c) It's not #41, Dave, DCfanatic, bbgun, theebs and myself who are the crazy fringe, it's you. TO is a laughing stock among 99.999% of the football watching public and so are all of his crazy apologists. Only among a fringe, crazed group of Cowboy fans is it even debated whether or not TO is a team cancer. Its obvious to everyone else, and they all point and laugh at you for being a gullible sucker.

You are suffering from serious TO delusions. Perhaps you just need 3-4 months watching nothing more challenging than Nick??

 

[Ren]

I find it comical that people still follow the Daniel Snyder model of team building that the team with the biggest names on the back of the jerseys must automatically be the best teams on the field.

it's not about the names it's about who you replace them with, there's a good chance we lose Austin to FA this season as well as cut TO, who are you going to replace them with when your cap is being taken up by TO even when he's not on the team?
But it's ok right cause we'll just run? like to see how well we run with constant 8 in the box by opposing defenses, but hey as soon as we get rid of TO everything else will just magically fix it self.

It's so ****ing obvious the problem with this team is coaching we have a unproven OC who didn't exactly look to bright this past season and a bunch of proven failures, this happens everywhere Wade goes... But we're stuck with them so it's all TO fault at least it lets you keep those we'll be a power running team deltuions going until the season start and reality kicks inn. By the 2nd week of Oktober when TO is gone and this team is just as big of a mess as it was this season who are you going to blame?

 

[tyke1doe]

I've put my money where my mouth is (just a figure of speech since I don't bet).

See my signature.

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[khiladi]

See, that's what people don't understand. IT IS about TO. There is no power running game like the Giants as long as TO is here. Your going to hear him complain about the playcalling and how he isnt getting the ball. Ya he doesn't say anything when we win, but what if we start losing? He's just going to sit back? Please. Three solid RB's,Romo, Witten, Roy,Miles,Bennett and Crayton. That's more than enough to move the ball. Owens restricts those people from getting touches.

Absolute howash, as I've stated multiple times before. You know why:1. TO has played long enough in the league to understand a running game helps his statistics. Steve SMith was the number 3 receiver in the league this year, and Carolina had the number 3 rushing attack.2. TO, even per Dan Reeves, was praised for his run-blocking. He further went on to say his presence helps the running game.3. TO, I believe, was the one that coined Marion, Marion "The Barbairian". TO is among the first to congratulate him when he beasts out, and he does the same thing when he is cheering on Choice. When Felix Choice had that long run, TO was there to block for him. When Julius Jones had that 70 yarder, TO was there to block for him.4. People are ridiculous if they think TO forced Garrett not to run. Garrett had total control of this offense. Wade made statements all year long that running the ball needs to be a priority. He even alluded to it in the press conference at the end of the year when he said Romo needs to be reigned in and TOs need to be reduced with a running game.

 

[khiladi]

One more thing:Brain Westbrook became an INTEGRAL part of the offense for the Eagles, the very year TO came to the Eagles.... He started getting plenty of touches and was a huge factor for them. If TO was all about himself, why did Westbrook suddenly start to shine as a full time player?

 

[bysbox1]

I've put my money where my mouth is (just a figure of speech since I don't bet).

See my signature.

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"The season after T.O. is let go, the Cowboys will make it to the Super Bowl, or at least go farther than they've gone previously with him." - Tyke1doe

Nope. Won't even come close. As a matter of fact, we are probably headed for a top 10 pick at that point.

Now don't get me wrong, from a record standpoint, keeping or cuttion TO is probably a 2-3 game swing, and it will either slow down or accelerate the "bleeding" so to speak. But if you guys think this team is going to miraculously change into some football juggernaut and win playoff games with all of it's underlying problems just because one player is cut, you are delusional and are going to be in for a rude shock next season. Let's look at what you have left:

• The equivalent of a rookie OC who's in over his head, but he has full authority to do what he wants to the Offense (pretty much makes the HC's authority useless).
• A head coach, notoriously known for his soft "family" style, now has to man up and be the the tough guy after being soft for 2 years. Like that's going to work.
• An Owner/GM who does not know how to be a GM and won't fire himself because he is the owner.
• A team who is now used to the looseness and lax style and understand that they can change the culture back to "their" way with one knock on the GM's door (or enough complaining to make the GM squirm in his seat and force change as opposed to letting the culture change run it's course).
• If TO is gone, Miles Austin will be gone next year in Free Agency, bank on it. Having TO on the roster you can manuever TO's salary, pay him some money up front, free up cap room to use to sign Austin to a higher tender. Cut him and Dallas won't have the cap room to tender him a 2.2 million dollar offer for a first round pick, and any offer less than that Miami will jump on him (Miami is WAY under the cap at 28 million). Austin and and TO were your receiver speed. Cut TO, Austin goes, now you have none . . .

I could go on, but you get the picture.

If nothing else is fixed, you will see AT BEST 9-7 next year. I see 5-11 and a top 10 draft pick.

Do you like tobasco sauce with your money? I can send you some. I have had to eat my money before putting it where my mouth is, and tobasco seems to take the edge off the paper taste . . . Just trying to help ya out . . .

 

[tyke1doe]

Nope. Won't even come close. As a matter of fact, we are probably headed for a top 10 pick at that point.

Now don't get me wrong, from a record standpoint, keeping or cuttion TO is probably a 2-3 game swing, and it will either slow down or accelerate the "bleeding" so to speak. But if you guys think this team is going to miraculously change into some football juggernaut and win playoff games with all of it's underlying problems just because one player is cut, you are delusional and are going to be in for a rude shock next season. Let's look at what you have left:

• The equivalent of a rookie OC who's in over his head, but he has full authority to do what he wants to the Offense (pretty much makes the HC's authority useless).
• A head coach, notoriously known for his soft "family" style, now has to man up and be the the tough guy after being soft for 2 years. Like that's going to work.
• An Owner/GM who does not know how to be a GM and won't fire himself because he is the owner.
• A team who is now used to the looseness and lax style and understand that they can change the culture back to "their" way with one knock on the GM's door (or enough complaining to make the GM squirm in his seat and force change as opposed to letting the culture change run it's course).
• If TO is gone, Miles Austin will be gone next year in Free Agency, bank on it. Having TO on the roster you can manuever TO's salary, pay him some money up front, free up cap room to use to sign Austin to a higher tender. Cut him and Dallas won't have the cap room to tender him a 2.2 million dollar offer for a first round pick, and any offer less than that Miami will jump on him (Miami is WAY under the cap at 28 million). Austin and and TO were your receiver speed. Cut TO, Austin goes, now you have none . . .

I could go on, but you get the picture.

If nothing else is fixed, you will see AT BEST 9-7 next year. I see 5-11 and a top 10 draft pick.

Do you like tobasco sauce with your money? I can send you some. I have had to eat my money before putting it where my mouth is, and tobasco seems to take the edge off the paper taste . . . Just trying to help ya out . . .

You must have stayed up all night thinking of that one. It was just beyond lame.

But don't take this so seriously. It's only a prediction. And, in the future, we shall see if it pans out.

Moreover, the statement, in and of itself, is loaded. To get rid of T.O. is going to take so major changes - Jerry okaying it, the team finding adequate replacements, the team changing its offensive philosophy, possibly a new coach.

So it's not a simple statement. It goes deeper than just saying T.O. gone means Championship.

Decisions are never isolated.

 

[bysbox1]

You must have stayed up all night thinking of that one. It was just beyond lame.

But don't take this so seriously. It's only a prediction. And, in the future, we shall see if it pans out.

Moreover, the statement, in and of itself, is loaded. To get rid of T.O. is going to take so major changes - Jerry okaying it, the team finding adequate replacements, the team changing its offensive philosophy, possibly a new coach.

So it's not a simple statement. It goes deeper than just saying T.O. gone means Championship.

Decisions are never isolated.

Wrong again . . . took me 15 minutes . . .

And just "cutting TO won't just make major changes now. Since "the staff is in place" the coaching staff won't change for year. Since we only have 10 million roughly under the cap, can't really bring in a replacement of caliber. How much changing offensive philosophy do you really think they will do? The staff is in place and so is most of the players.

But when you hear people here say cut TO, they make it sound like it will cause a rift in the time continuom and these existing Cowboys will change to the 90's Cowboys of 3 super bowl rings. I read it here all the time here. That's not going to happen. There are too many other deep rooted problems that we all know are not going to get fixed this year. So you can't expect miracles.

Now if you are taking a 3 year change here, then I would agree (TO has to go sometimes, he will be 37 after next season). But you will see worse before you see better.

 

[Arch Stanton]

I find it comical that people actually think cutting our best receiver is going to make our running game better. We forced teams to play the pass that's why there's been running room take away the threat of our passing game and see how far we get running with this team.
If receivers crying about the football is enough to make our coaches change the offense then we seriously need new coaches not receivers

Nope, it was the OWNER and the HC that said in the media that backed TO. We must get the ball to TO. Thus cutting Garrett off at the knees. His gameplan had to be about TO. As I said a few weeks back in jest just play 9Olinemen Romo and TO. He'd get all the looks, but I bet he'd still find something to whinge about.

 

[Ren]

Nope, it was the OWNER and the HC that said in the media that backed TO. We must get the ball to TO. Thus cutting Garrett off at the knees. His gameplan had to be about TO. As I said a few weeks back in jest just play 9Olinemen Romo and TO. He'd get all the looks, but I bet he'd still find something to whinge about.

Garrett has been a pass first OC ever since he got here, he's not going to just change that and i doubt he even knows how. The first Skins game is a great example of Garrett offense, 8 runs all game and Felix never saw the field on offense

 

[Arch Stanton]

Garrett has been a pass first OC ever since he got here, he's not going to just change that and i doubt he even knows how. The first Skins game is a great example of Garrett offense, 8 runs all game and Felix never saw the field on offense

How do you know he wasn't instructed before the Commanders game he had to pass to TO? How do you know? Garrett had his authority taken away from him in the media by Jerry. The OC is supposed to attack the weakness of the D facing him. But no he has to gameplan around throw the ball to TO. It's like facing a D that's#32 against the run and #1 against the pass. Just throw TO the ball. Garrett has been on a hiding to nothing with this jerk on the team.

 

[jterrell]

Remember after Barber retired after a season where he was probably the biggest distraction in the league for a Giants team that crashed and burned.

They were pegged to finish last in the East by most pundits yet won the Super Bowl. Jacobs was alrgely unproven as an everydown back, ditto for Ward and Bradshaw.

I'm on the fence regarding keeping TO, but maybe just maybe cutting TO may not be the end of the world some are proclaiming here.

It could happen.

But perhaps T.O. is our Plaxico Burress instead.

That is my fear and why I lean to keeping him.

I don't think Plaxico is a particularly bright person or good teammate. I think him being in a nightclub with a loaded weapon in NYC where guns are forbidden basically everywhere was stupid and team crushing.

BUT... the Giants went from a 1 loss team to a team that couldn't beat many teams with one fell swoop.

I do not particularly like T.O.

But I recall the Hardline back when they used to really ride Irvin talking about Irvin and saying you only want the guy around in 2 situations. 1 is at gametime and the other is when you are out trolling chicks.

Well for T.O. is it only at gametime. But its the gametime stuff he gets paid for.

I hope someone can tell T.O. they need him to be a leader. A leader who helps build Romo's confidence and that if he does so he'll have his defining moment in a Hall of Fame career here as a Cowboy on the NFL's biggest stage.

I just don't think you give up on that much talent.

 

[tyke1doe]

Wrong again . . . took me 15 minutes . . .

:laugh1: Not a night's work but still too long. It was still lame, though.

And just "cutting TO won't just make major changes now. Since "the staff is in place" the coaching staff won't change for year. Since we only have 10 million roughly under the cap, can't really bring in a replacement of caliber. How much changing offensive philosophy do you really think they will do? The staff is in place and so is most of the players.

But when you hear people here say cut TO, they make it sound like it will cause a rift in the time continuom and these existing Cowboys will change to the 90's Cowboys of 3 super bowl rings. I read it here all the time here. That's not going to happen. There are too many other deep rooted problems that we all know are not going to get fixed this year. So you can't expect miracles.

Now if you are taking a 3 year change here, then I would agree (TO has to go sometimes, he will be 37 after next season). But you will see worse before you see better.

My comment doesn't have a time table on it.

As for whether we'll be worse before we get better, we shall see.

 

[jterrell]

How do you know he wasn't instructed before the Commanders game he had to pass to TO? How do you know? Garrett had his authority taken away from him in the media by Jerry. The OC is supposed to attack the weakness of the D facing him. But no he has to gameplan around throw the ball to TO. It's like facing a D that's#32 against the run and #1 against the pass. Just throw TO the ball. Garrett has been on a hiding to nothing with this jerk on the team.

That's a comical stretch.

Every week there will be a goal of getting the ball to T.O.
Same way they get the ball to Fitz in Arizona or Steve Smith in Carolina.

None of that excuses never using Felix Jones.

I will guarantee you Jerry never said take all of Felix Jones(my first round pick and homeboy from Arkansas) snaps and use those to get the ball to T.O.

This is a perfect example of using a completely illogical argument and directing it at T.O.

Garrett has a bright future but he had a bad game calling plays against
Wash that game. Maybe Felix was banged up all week in practice and that's why he wasn't used but it certainly wasn't because of T.O.

 

[Ren]

How do you know he wasn't instructed before the Commanders game he had to pass to TO? How do you know? Garrett had his authority taken away from him in the media by Jerry. The OC is supposed to attack the weakness of the D facing him. But no he has to gameplan around throw the ball to TO. It's like facing a D that's#32 against the run and #1 against the pass. Just throw TO the ball. Garrett has been on a hiding to nothing with this jerk on the team.

How do you know he was instructed before that game? Basically you're just speculating and willing to take a 9mill cap hit and a huge step in the wrong direction cause of what you think happened. At least my speculation has some base in reality as it was there for all to see all year. What if *gasp* Garrett is what he is and TO is not the root of all this teams problems? i know, huge reach right... I mean this staff has such a rich tradition of success that it can't be anything but TO right? :laugh2:

Cutting players to make this coaching staffs job "easier" is like pissing your self at winter to stay warm